Blogging The Boys

good read and nice write up by tom

But yeah, I said the same thing. The whole argument is pointless. They’re both really really good.

Jim Kelly vs Troy Aikman....

which one u like better Paul??

stats (and Terry) will tell you that Jim Kelly was better…

Of course I like Aikman better

But he also has the much better team. I think Eli and Romo are both elite. But I also know it takes a team to win a super bowl. I can’t think of one super bowl champ that won it just because of their qb. Not one. Not Aikman, not Staubach. Nobody.

i agree it takes a team to win any game

but theres 4 or 5 plays/decisions a QB has to make on his own that 90% of the time either win or lose them. so far at this point Peyton hasn’t been able to make them like Eli has & the same can be said for Romo or Rivers.
all the stats in the word wont win playoffs or super bowls, just look at Big Ben compared to Marino or Kelly.
also how many playoff wins/super bowls has Brady/Belicheck won since they caught cheating (spygate)?
Romo needs to keep working on game situations, decision making & footwork but the biggest thing that needs to be done is getting these WRs on the same page with him. Dez wont ever be the player he can be unless he decides to put the work in. the elite players work 12 months out of the year & practice perfection.

Those 4 or 5 decisions

The idea that there are some ultimate plays is false logic. Example: To players shoot 11 freethrows in a basketball game. The player that loses makes 9 of 11. The player that wins makes 4 of 11. These 4 makes were critical to the 1 point win. The 2 the losing player misses were critical to the 1 point loss. But who shot better? The outcome and how the team played is what determines “those 4 or 5 decisions” as being so “important”. If the Cowboys are successful on Field Goal attempts, then suddenly Romo has made those 4 or 5 decisions to win.

LG4DC - February 9, 2012 reply

you have said this before

and, once again, I’ll say it is not necessarily true.

Kelly had the better peak, perhaps, but Aikman had twice as many top-5 finishes in passer rating, and was more consistent. Football Outsiders only has data going back to 1992, but for what it’s worth, from 92-96(when Kelly retired), Aikman had the edge in both DYAR and DVOA every year.

Kelly’s Buffalo team was, for that era, more of an “air it out” squad, as Kelly regularly finished in the top 10 in attempts, while the Boys were more balanced, putting a lot of the offensive load, of course, on Emmitt’s shoulders. So, while Kelly has leads in certain counting stats, like yards and TD’s, Aikman has the edge in efficiency markers like completion percentage, and interception percentage.

They’re both Hall of Famers. If you wanted to say Kelly was better, I’m not going to get upset. Certainly, I don’t think there was anything about Kelly that was “unclutch” or that he lacked mental toughness, or any such nonsense people make up to discredit athletes without titles like Romo, or Marino, or Dirk up until last year, or Peyton/Elway until they won their rings.

In a fair world Kelly would have won at least one of those Super Bowls. He was a great player.

Yup. I'm heading toward that conclusion, too.

Very well said, Tom!

They are both very good QBs in this league with very different supporting casts along side them.

Have tried very hard not to wade into

this largely pointless debate. In the final analysis, scores are kept to determine winners, championships awarded to crown the best. Those are objective measurements. But its not a zero-sum game either, just because Tony is not a champion, doesn’t mean he can’t be good or very good. Similarly, because EM is a champion, doesn’t diminish TR.

Do agree, to my eternal consternation, with the fact that Elia has gotten it done, while Tony has not – is a differentiator. You can qualify it it with as many stats, figures and objections you want, but that fundamental fact is irrefutable. For right now.

tdships - February 7, 2012 reply

OK............

Where is Mclovin9 and his bastard son?

mahahahhahaha

RIGHT HERE…..

At least that weirdo was the yin to Terry's yang. McLovin loves him some Terry too

much to keep the world spinning on its axis.

Tony is still a winner in my book

now can his team help him take it to the next level

Lil J Moore - February 7, 2012 reply

The Romo/Eli argument is a losing battle for us Romo fans.

Eli has the rings. Kinda like the Philly is a better franchase than Dallas argument, no matter what the Philly fans say the score is still 5-0.

Yeah

People don’t seem to put in that Eli has a better Oline and Dline then Romo. Give Romo a better Dline and Oline. and we’ll win with no luck involved.(I.E 49ers punt returner)

Lil J Moore - February 7, 2012 reply

One thing I have to refute is the OL. Manning has had an insanely bad OL all year, and was certainly the case throughout the playoffs.

In ATL, the beginning of the game we got destroyed by their pass rushers. GB we did a better job, but SF we got massacred, and even against the Pats, they got 3 sacks on us…one of which was on only a 3 man rush. Cowboys have a better OL than we do (especially at tackle)

I have argued if the giants dont hit on linemen soon they will collapse quickly,

your thoughts?

Will Beatty went on IR like week 13 or something. He was a very very good pass protector, so we're good at LT.

We need a new RT. Kevin Boothe and Mitch Petrus have done very well at LG. Chris Snee is still good at RG. David Baas was suffering from a neck injury all year and was largely ineffective. Once fully healthy (got more or less 2 weeks off before superbowl), he shut down Vince Wilfork one on one. Biggest need is a RT. We drafted James Brewer last year to be our RT, but he’s unproven so we’ll see.

what about age?

Snee, is declining no? Baas too, Wilfork did not have a great year IMO,

Snee had a bad year because McKenzie was trash this year, and always was helping him out.

He had to take on two players a lot of the time, so he allowed pressures. Baas was suffering from a neck injury that was lingering…he admitted as much. Both are 30 or younger I think.

Wilfork was beasting in the playoffs.

30 or younger, I find that surprising, I thought they were older,

congrats on two amazing runs to the super bowls and to beat the most over rated team in nfl history,,, I hate no one more than the patriots,

Chris Snee just turned 30 on January 8th. Baas will turn 31 on Sept 28th.

thanks mate, appreciate it.

So your good at LT, LG, RG, and C

and the only position on the line you need to upgrade on is RT? But you say the Cowboys have a better OL than the Giants? HHHHMMMMMMMMMM?

We are set with Tyron Smith. And he will be moved to LT this year which he has never played before so we’re only hopeful that the move will work. In that move Doug Free will go back to RT and we only hope that he returns to the Doug Free of 2009 and 2010.

Kyle Koiser is smart and has served us well but we all saw he’s pretty much done. Holland is nothing more than a stop gap. And if you ask around, plenty people will tell you that Costa is the worst center in the NFL.

So BBI, please explain to me how the Dallas oline is better than the Giants oline.

It was better in 2011, yet to be determined going forward.

Beatty, our very good LT was out. He’s still probably worse than Tyron Smith (though we have yet to see him on the left side). We had Diehl, who played like garbage the entire year. Worst rated OL by PFF far and away. Gave up a pressure once ever 8.25 dropbacks…by far the worst mark.

Boothe was a better pass protector, Petrus a better run blocker…still don’t have total package at LG.

McKenzie was terrible.
Snee had a bad year because he had a concussion, and he had to help Mack out a little bit.

Baas had head and neck injuries and was terrible/injured for most of the year. Boothe was filling in and didn’t do great.

Yeah, i see what your're saying about 2011

But lets just agree that they were equally garbagelicous. Yes. I just made up a word. Garbagelicous. You can use it if you want.

haha I'll let you trademark it.

wanted to get your opinion on Dwight Jones, Paul….I’d love him on the Giants with the 32nd pick.

You can't have him.

You have too many WR’s already. You’re going to lose Mario Manningham and I really don’t won’t you any where near another Tarheel WR. I vomit everytime I see Hakeem Nicks in that uni……never mind. Getting sick just thinking about it.

But seriously, he’s huge and he’s dangerous when he gets his hands on the ball. But he’s not very fast at all. His 40 times are going to be very important. I don’t think he will be able to seperate from db’s in the NFL. I’ve actually wondered if he might get moved to TE because he’s so damn big and can block really well. Really good kid though. I’m guessing he’s a late 2nd round pick. Maybe somewhere in the 3rd.

I watch a LOT of UNC games being an ACC fan...he seems pretty fast to me.

wouldn’t be surprised if he ran a 4.45. At 6’4, I don’t mind that speed. If that’s the case, I’ll take him with our 1st round pick.

why?

WRs is a Giants strength. The team has greater needs at other positions. Also, they used a #3 on Barden and Jernigan.

We need someone to stretch the field IMO. Jones is a fast and big target

If Manningham goes, Dwight Jones is very physically gifted and could take his place.

imo 40 times are overrated

i mean you dont want a WR running like a OL but getting seperation happens more ways then just speed.
Roy Williams had a decent 40 time but couldnt get any seperation. i think the game tape tells it all & a lot of good players have been over looked bc of measurables.
smart beats strength or speed anytime

Manningham is a streaky player & wont be a big loss for the Giants.

i think the Giants need a better TE to pair with Ballard more then another WR to replace Manningham.

James brewer will be the "JPP" on the offensive side

You heard it here first

maculis - February 7, 2012 reply

I understand that several factors going into the following stats, like how long a QB holds the ball etc,

but the Giants’ oline gave up 28 sacks in the regular season and 72 QB hits per nfl.com. The Cowboys’ oline gave up 39 sacks and 81 hits. In terms of sacks, the Giants’ oline is ranked 7th while Dallas’ is ranked 19th. In terms of QB hits, the Giants are ranked 13th and Dallas is ranked 22nd. Now, I’m not saying that the Giants’ oline was great, but it certainly looks like they were better at pass protection than Dallas’ was.

It was Eli. He prevented many many more sacks. According to PFF, he was the most pressured QB in the entire league

FootballOutsiders and ProFootballfocus ranked the Giants OL among the worst (if not the worst) in the league.

If Eli pl;ayed in Dallas he might have been sacked 100 times HaHAHa

no really!

haha, I'm jealous of your OTs

Please..

In the two games against the Cowboys Eli was sacked twice and Romo Nine times. If you are going to argue at least have a reasonable point.

bevomav - February 7, 2012 reply

Two points:

1) Our pass rush >> your pass rush IMO.
2) Romo was put under more high pressure situations in the 2nd game that required him to pass rather than run. In the first game, Murray got injured, so there was a higher percentage of Cowboy passes to runs than usual.

Nope. December, the Giants give up 8 sacks, and the Cowboys give up 19.

We have one tackle, a rookie, who played well, for a rookie. The other tackle was awful and needs to be moved to the right.

BigBlueIntervention - February 8, 2012 reply

wrong!!!

the OL for the giants is A LOT better than the OL for dallas. there were a lot of times during the playoff’s (and the last month of the season) were ELI had all day to throw, was able to get to all his reads and the running game was clicking the whole playoffs….Romo hardly had anytime at all to throw the ball, never was able to get to all his reads, and the running game sucked. dallas had 5 rushing TD’s all year, 1 by Romo. how many rushing TD’s did the giants have?? the 3 sacks the pats had against eli, were coverage sacks, he had no where to throw the ball. san fran just has one hell of a defense, no OL would be good against them. and the GB game?? are you serious..at times he had ALL DAY to throw the ball. obviuosly you are a giants fan and didnt watch all the dallas games all year

rick67 - February 8, 2012 reply

obviuosly you are a giants fan and didnt watch all the dallas games all year

Err, yeah, I am a Giants fan. And I’ve seen enough Cowboy games, 10 or so, to make an accurate judgement. You have to look at pressures. Eli was pressured the most this year. That translated into throwaways and interceptions. Romo held on to the ball longer and took sacks. Can’t just go by sack numbers and call it a day.

that's false big blue u say ur squad

got massacred against frisco, did u even see when dallas played them? Yea Romo ended up w/ fractured ribs n the patsies put plenty of pressure on romo when they played them as well.. Some of ur starters get hurt n it seemed like the backups did fairly decent, our “starter” the c phil costa lets philly run rite up the middle untouched n gets a free shot on the qb yup but our oline was better smh.. Ur team got it done nothing else needs to be said, congrats.

DarkKnight88 - February 8, 2012 reply

sigh, this is true

Eli greater than Romo
Cowboys greater than everthing short of God ,,

It’s truth

If it's not in block quotes...

…how can it be true?

maculis - February 7, 2012 reply

Anytime we can slap philly in the face

it gets a rec from me.

Great article

Both are great QBs.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

First off, it takes a big man to write this. I'd struggle with it if the situation were reversed....

But honestly, Eli is ELIte….but Romo is as well. They both have different strengths and that’s what makes them great. As of right now, a historical precedent for the type of QB Eli is, is someone like Johnny Unitas (I’m not saying he’s as good, but there are similarities), decent numbers with average TD:INT ratio but unquestionably clutch, turned it up at the right time and a winner.

Romo is like Dan Marino, a great player, puts up historic numbers and is insanely accurate…to be let down by the surrounding cast. While I hope that doesn’t change, I think that in the near future it certainly will.

Marino was the obvious other example, but Archie just fit in so well.

And Marino at least got to the big game. Archie never even sniffed at it until his got to watch his sons.

I suspect he has regrets about not making it himself, but I also think seeing both his kids win the championships makes it a lot better for him.

Tom Ryle - February 7, 2012 reply

Poor Archie played on maybe the worst franchase in NFL history.

Like Emmitt said, Archie was a diamond mixed in with a bunch of poo poo.

starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 - February 7, 2012 reply

cant believe his best season was like 8-6 and a wild card loss

I dont think Archie Manning ever was on a playoff team

Btw, the Saints were awful, but the Original Elisha also played for the 1982-83 Oilers who went 3-22 and the 1984 Vikings who went 1-15 (Archie was 0-10 in those 3 seasons).

DavidH22 - February 7, 2012 reply

No doubt

Giants-Cowboys

games are always the best to watch because both QBs put up excellent numbers and it usually always comes down to the last drive.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

and Q the Newman chasing Nicks from behind OR

Newman lining up so far off the line of scrimmage Flash the super hero would run a curl rout.

I would scream at my tv

every time I saw newman playing 10 yards off the reciever when all the offense needed was 5. Everytime there was a big play I knew it involved him.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Im glad I wasnt the only one yelling..

What was funny to me was by the end of the year my wife even started noticing it and yelling with me!!!

AmericasTeamm - February 7, 2012 reply

Parity has always been the modus operandi of the NFC East (minus the Skins after the early 90's)

starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 - February 7, 2012 reply

RIP but had Sean Taylor not tragically passed

i think him and Landry would have made Washington a terror to play against

they still wouldn't have a QB

jerry_jones_killed_our_cowboys - February 7, 2012 reply

Why is this debate so pointless considering

That the success and development of Eli has been at the expense of the Cowboys and Romo? In 7 years as a starter Manning is 7-3 in the post season and has the most playoff road wins in the history of the league. Romo is 1-2 in the post season with 6 years as a starter. There is no debate about who ia superior. Isn’t it convenient that Kool Aid gulpers who at the beginning of every season talk about the Cowboys quality talent quickly point out Eli’s success is the product of superior talent. Eli has superior coaching and organizational structure and ia tougher mentally. Sorry if the truth hurts.

jerry_jones_killed_our_cowboys - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

At one point I had thought about mentioning reading comprehension in my article.

Tom Ryle - February 7, 2012 reply

Wouldn't be comprehended.

Which’s why you didn’t.

tanstaafl - February 7, 2012 reply

...think you are. You wrote a huge article and said nothing of substance.

You don’t even need to read your articles to know what you said…the Cowboys are great but….fill in the rest of the story with paragraphs of stats and mindless analysis. The Cowboys would be in the Super Bowl every year if only….insert more useless stats and fluff. There is no one with any credibility who analyzes the NFL that will agree that Tony is in the same league as Eli for the very reason you point out, then attempt to dismiss. Eli is one of 5 QBs to win to 2 Super Bowls. Romo has won one playoff game.

I've just read a couple of your posts and you have said nothing as well

To you, Trent Dilfer is in the same class as Peyton Manning because both won a Super Bowl. Jim McMahon is definintely superior to either Dan Fouts or Dan Marino.

You would take Jeff Hostetler over Philip Rivers anyday.

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I hear this time and again from fans/talking heads whose “in-depth” analysis consists of little more than adding up Super Bowl wins.

I would expect this from a 8 year old, but I would hope a 12 year old would know better. Are you somewhere in between?

Conn Cowboy - February 7, 2012 reply

your comment makes you look just as bad as Jerry killed the cowboys comment.

To you, Trent Dilfer is in the same class as Peyton Manning because both won a Super Bowl. Jim McMahon is definintely superior to either Dan Fouts or Dan Marino.

.
sometimes you need to say things out loud before hitting post

I am Ironman!!! - February 7, 2012 reply

I would Suggest that you actually read the Article

this is the only time that Tom mentions “stats”

Archie Manning is arguably the least successful outstanding quarterback in the history of the NFL. He played most of his seasons with the New Orleans Saints, back when their unofficial nickname was the Aints, and the unofficial fan uniform was a paper bag over the head. He had a career record of 35-101-3. His team was so bad, that he was named the UPI (an old competitor of AP) NFC Player of the year in 1979 for leading the team to a 7-9 record.

All Tom was trying to do was point out that Eli and Romo are similar in Talent on an Individual level…nothing more nothing less

You are missing the point entirely....

The point is clearly in Tom’s Article.

When you said….“Eli is one of 5 QBs to win to 2 Super Bowls.”….you showed that you have a problem with reading comprehension…..

QB’s dont win Superbowls…..TEAM’s DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please try to at least get the point of the article, will you?, before you say the article said nothing of substance……The point was filled with substance…..

Great Article Tom….One of my pet peeves is that to people who can’t see facts they will argue the dumbest circular arguments there are…..examples:

1. If they are arguing Head Coaches, they will say something silly like “Look at all the Superbowls that Chuck Noll won…he was the only coach to win 4 Superbowls in 6 years, he was the BEST head coach ever.”

2. Then in the same argument if the QB was mentioned, they will say something equally silly like….“Well Terry Bradshaw won 4 Superbowls, so he is as good as Joe Montana, because they are the only two QB’s to win 4.”

3. And then to even futher prove Tom’s point about TEAM, if the statement “Defense wins Championships”, then they will point to the success of the “Steel Curtian” of the Steelers being the reason for thier success.

And to sum up, if you ask them was it the QB, Head Coach, or Defense that was the reason for thier success, they will completely miss the point just like this Cowboy fan pretender who calls himself “jerry_Jones_killed_our_Cowboys” did and still does.

our failure is not Romo

Jerry opionion of over the hill playes let the team degrade while Jerry blindly marched on and signed long deals with 30+ declining players

th failure in Dallas rides on Romo's shoulders just like the other players, coaches & owner

theres been games where Romo single handed lost with bad decisions but that comes with the postion. theres also been games Romo single handed won.
theres enough blame to go around for the problems in Dallas but no teams ever going to be perfect at every postiion. hopefully Garrett figures it out soon bc the watch is ticking

Yep. This is where I am at.

In 7 years as a starter Manning is 7-3 in the post season and has the most playoff road wins in the history of the league. Romo is 1-2 in the post season with 6 years as a starter. There is no debate about who ia superior.

I am a big romo fan. I wear his jersey. And I always root against dumbface. But there isn’t enough kool aid in the world to make me think Romo is the “superior” qb.

dave33 - February 7, 2012 reply

QB's dont win games,

TEAMs Do!!!!

Yeah. Your right. Those numbers are absolutely meaningless.

sheesh.

dave33 - February 8, 2012 reply

tell that to the Colts lol

and again......the problem with the cowboys is not the qb itself

Its the will to win…..the actual cojopnes it takes to simply kill an opponent when you have them down by twenty something like we had the lions, 14 points, lik we had the jets, 12 points like we had the giants……..our team may have some talent but even that talent has a soft mind…..

I've been thinking about that lately.

I have a suspicion that those three losses in the first five weeks planted a huge seed of self-doubt in the team. It is something that hopefully the team can purge for next season.

Tom Ryle - February 7, 2012 reply

No doubt

Jimmy J used to say he wouldn’t let up until the other team gave up, That was a mentality, one this team does not have. I think you are right.

I doubt it

I dont see the leadership from the main guys to overcome that state of mind…….not from Romo, Ware, Ratt nor Garret….. I’ve always thought this team needs a Ray Lewis type and we dont have one. Sean Lee is not that either.

And sadly it may have to do with Jerry Jones having his stupid nose involved in every little detail of this organiztion……he diminishes everybody else’s role IMO.

I don't agree completly

I dont see the leadership from the main guys to overcome that state of mind

Lee is a leader, he is very vocal and I love how he speaks about preperation, maybe you didn’t notice but James almost surendered the leadership role to Lee early on.

Sorry, but James has never been a leader to me.....that guy stinks and always has. Just liek Newman.

Overrated…….

I'm talking about James early admission Lee was the leader of the defense

It was almost like it was a relief to him, not that I thought he was the leader,

ok, but still.......

We lost some stupid games where even if the QB decides to throw a couple of picks at the end, the deffense shouldve made a stop.

Perfect example is the SB where Bradshaw screwed up by scoring and the deffense cleaned it up for him. Romo never has that kind of support from the Defense, not the running game…..

We learned that same harsh lesson last year. The Eagles game was the entire stimulus for the offseason

message of “FINISH.” That was the theme of our season. The Giants always preached “Finish, finish, finish.” It took that godforsaken game for us to wake up. We gave up on the season after that….got torched by the Packers right after. Perhaps the same sort of thing can happen for the Boys….

Well said Tom!

Cue the Romo hating trolls in 3-2-1……..

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

being "clutch" has a lot to do with opportunity

tony romo’s 4 playoff games
832 yards, 80/135, 59.3%, 4 td, 2 int, 6.16 y/a
pts scored: 74

eli manning’s first 4 playoff games
622 yards, 58/90, 64.45%, 6 td, 4 int, 6.91 y/a
pts scored: 65

tom brady’s first 4 games
773 yards, 81/138, 58.7%, 2 td, 1 int, 5.60 y/a
pts scored: 77

Why is Romo 1-3, while Manning was 2-2 and Brady 4-0? You would be hard pressed to say Brady or Manning did more their teams. The big difference is Brady’s defense allowed just 61 points, Manning’s allowed 77, and Romo’s allowed 90.

Of course, Manning and Brady improved as their playoff careers went along. I don’t see why Romo can’t do the same, but his team has to help him get back there, first.

Yess

Preach

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

+9

It is no secret that our defense sucks and when they play "good" they still give up a TD when we need that final stop.

They simply suck……no heart at all.

Baked Potato Soup - February 7, 2012 reply

That's some great research Alan.

Kind of proves my point about Romo being as good as anyone.

Mikellie - February 7, 2012 reply

Excellent! More people need to understand this.

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Those guys didn't stop at 4, though.

You’re absolutely right that those guys improved as their careers went along, meaning that they are better right now. Tony can get to their level, but has not yet.

it isn't Tony's fault

he’s only played 4 games. That is why I’ve said “clutch” is a lot about opportunity.

Both Brady and Manning won their first super bowls with pretty pedestrian numbers. If Romo’s teammates had risen to the level those two gentlemens’ teammates did, I think the constructed narrative about Tony would be a little different.

Baked Potato Soup - February 7, 2012 reply

But that's the difference

It’s speculation with Romo, fact with the other guys.

what evidence do you have that Romo will fail in future playoff performances

He has continued to perform at an elite level in the regular season. Pundits may highlight mistakes but you could do the same for any QB.

Romo’s 4th quarter passer rating is #1 in NFL history. His QB rating when trailing is better than Tom Brady’s; his 4th down QB rating is also better. Entering this season he had more 4th quarter yards and TD’s since ’06 than any QB not named Brees or Rivers.

Other guys have earned a reputation of being “clutch” and most of the time that reputation is deserved; I would argue in the case of Brady and Eli the title was anointed before much proof to it existed, though I’ll admit it does now.

If Romo is going to continue to be saddled with the choke label because of a botched field goal hold from five years ago, and the fact that his team’srecord in December belies his own outstanding individual performance, then that’s just sad. The evidence continues to mount that Romo is a great quarterback, at every point, not just in September, not just in the first half. Like most elite professional athletes, greatness doesn’t evaporate like that.

Ted Williams hit .200 in his one World Series. It was 25 at bats, and they weren’t his best. But if someone thinks that if he’d played in 10 more World Series that he’d continue to hit .200, then that someone is a fool.

Alan Smithee - February 8, 2012 reply

I have no evidence one way or another. That's why it's speculation.

Where did I say anything about choking or that Romo isn’t great? I said that the other 2 guys have actually accomplished it, though, where with Romo, it’s just guessing whether he would or not.

Why doesn’t he get the same respect as them? Because he has not actually accomplished what they did. They have. He hasn’t. That’s not a knock on him or saying that he isn’t capable. That’s the difference, though. They have actually accomplished improving, while with Romo, we just think he will at this point. Again, with them, it’s something that actually happened already, with Romo it’s just what we think will happen.

Baked Potato Soup - February 8, 2012 reply

so what are you actually saying then?

That Romo has not won a Super Bowl, and those other two have?

I think we’re all aware of that.

Alan Smithee - February 8, 2012 reply

Isn't that also what you basically said in your original post?

And from that, you speculate that given the same number of continuing opportunities, Romo will also reach that goal. And then I respond by pointing out that’s why those guys are given more credit and respect than Romo – because they have already completed that improvement, while Romo is still an unknown. We can guess that he will or won’t also improve similarly, depending on the guesser, but it’s still just guessing. The other 2, currently improved since the first 4 opportunities, are proven quantities. Romo’s improvement from those first 4 opportunities is still unproven. He won’t be, and shouldn’t be, afforded the same respect as them, because he has yet to prove what they already have. Conclusion: the difference between Romo and guys like Eli or Brady is that we THINK he is good enough to improve as his playoff career goes along, while we KNOW that they are.

Plus 1000

Throw in the luck plays and you find another differentiator

oldtimer - February 8, 2012 reply

But if Romo was any good, he would have played in 18 playoff games by now and be 18-0 and 6-0 in the Super Bowl!

NO ONE CAN DENY THIS!!!

so your saying we have a chance with Romo & good defense?

Broaddus seems to think Robinson is leaving,

that would hurt Romo a lot. He’s quickly become a go to guy for Romo and could be Dallas’ top WR next year.

Radway is a star in the making, IMO

I don't

think he will have much success with another team if he does leave.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Jerry

will pay him. I’m not worried.

Dub_TC - February 7, 2012 reply

Laurent Robinson is Alvin Harper all over again...

Robinson produces with Austin and Bryant and Witten running patterns…like Harper did with Novacek, Irvin and Emmitt…

But put Robinson as a one on another team, like Harper with Tampa Bay, and watch his numbers plummet.

Another team wants to over-pay for a product of a system and a nifty QB buying time to get him the ball? – Go ahead…I’ll pack up Laurent’s locker myself.

More balls for Miles, Dez, and Jason….

Laurent Robinson

6’ 2", 198 lbs, 4.38, good hands, great chemistry with Romo, 11 TD in 12 games. Played at a D II school in college battling an ankle his senior year. RKG. We would be stupid not to sign him back. We can sign him for 2nd receiver money because Dez is making 3rd receiver money. Plus we don’t really know about Dez yet, but I think we will find out more by the end of next year. Gotta sign Robinson.

dmagikwand - February 7, 2012 reply

I'll admit that I am one of the guys saying Eli sucks...

and I am sorry for littering up the boards with it. He obviously is a good QB and a great QB in the clutch. But anytime someone says that he is better than Romo, it’s get’s my blood boiling and I tend to fly off the hook a little bit. I am not going to go there again though. Once again, sorry for some of the comments that I personally made.

Mikellie - February 7, 2012 reply

I got your back Mikellie

We both know Romo is the better qb but Eli just happens to play for a better team. It is what it is, but someday I believe Romo will play on a better team and hold up that Lombardi Trophy as well.

Better team?

Since 2007, Romo’s first full season the Giants are 49-31. The Cowboys are 47-33. Eli hasn’t missed a game while Romo has missed some games. In his absence the Cowboys are 6-7. Playing in the same division both teams basically play identical schedules.

Better team? This season Giants were ranked last in rushing the football. Giants were ranked 29th vs the pass and 27th in total yards allowed. Cowboys were ranked 7th vs the rush. Giants were 19th.

Better team? I often read and read yesterday on BTB how the Cowboys are more talented than the Giants. Romo came into the league a year after Eli. Eli has been a starter longer than Romo. Both have had their up and down. The difference is Eli plays better in the bigger games. Head to head Eli is 3-6 vs Romo

Meant

Romo is 3-6 vs Eli

no, the difference is Eli has played in more big games

A product of having a better team.

And the Cowboys were 29th in offensive rushing DVOA, while the Giants were 20th. If you look at unadjusted stats you’re missing the fact that Dallas played an easier schedule and did most of their rushing damage against cupcakes(like Murray’s record day against the Rams).

Cowboys and Giants were close in defensive DVOA; Dallas was 19th and NY 22nd. This, of course, doesn’t account for Umenyiora missing a month with a concussion, and the various other maladies that saddled the team up until the stretch run.

Overall, Dallas was 14th in DVOA, and the Giants were 12th. This supports the idea that, yes, the Giants had the better team, and also the notion that the difference between the two is not huge, as does their records.

you solidified my position

our records and adjusted stats are very close.

But the Giants record and adjusted stats were better

And that would seem to run counter to your position, unless I am misreading.

I don’t think any intelligent person here would suggest the Cowboys are basement dwellers.

Nope, when you

said, “Eli plays better in big games”, you could also have said “the Giants play better in big games”, and you would have been MORE correct.

TEAMS win not QB’s or Head Coaches!!!!!!

Eli was the MVP of the SB, but clearly Hynoski should've been.

???

why

Must be a joke.

Because he was my pet cat in the draft last year.

I still cuss Jerry for not drafting him over that spare they got in the 7th.

Confirmed

Dire Wolf was s-c-r-e-a-m-i-n-g for Dallas to take Hynoski and blasted the organization for passing on him.

He was spot on with his FB assessment.

Unfortunately, Garrett fell in love with another FB who happened to be a “team Captain.”

I knew Hynoski was going to be good when after the first day of training camp, his first words to start an interview were:

“I just want to hit people.”

He will be the best FB in the league for years to come.

I certainly hope so, but he's got some work to do behind Vontae Leach and the other road graders.

Kid can catch though.

He's still upset the Cowboys took Shaun Chapas over him in the 2011 draft.

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

i am as well

Hynoski had a pretty good Super Bowl

yehti - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

I heard Chapas had a good Super Bowl as well

He was at a bar with some friends, ate some good wings, had a couple cold pints, and got a phone number of a hottie waitress.

Lol

starmesh23 - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Hat tip to Eli and the Giants fans

You guys are a class act. Hopefully our Cowboys can beat your Giants for the NFC East, as well as in the NFC Title Game, enroute to winning our #6 next season.

2012-2013 should be a fun season.

Book, it Cowboys SB Champs!

-A Cowboys fan who doesn’t hate/rip on Tony Romo.

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Hat tip to BtB, one of the most intellectual and classy SBN sites out there.

I took a couple of hours

To remember what it felt like to see a team win a title. I watched that Giants parade and pep rally at Met Life (on NFL Network). That looked fun.

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

I was breathless the entire time. It finally hit me after seeing that rally at Metlife

I second that ^

So many times I come on here to educate myself more on football….
Wheres the “coach” guy that is always writing about schemes, routes and play calling? Haven’t seen any of those posts in awhile.

Yup yup!!

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Is Romo as accomplished as Eli?

Nope.

Do I still want Romo as my QB?

Yep.

Dub_TC - February 7, 2012 reply

Did we just become best friends?!

yep

wanna practice karate in the garage?

yehti - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

What does accomplished mean?? Playing for a better team

Then yes, Eli plays for a better team, but you’re right, I’d take Romo over Eli without hesitation.

accomplished means bling Terry....

meaning playing your best football when the games matter the most….rising to the occasion…winning championships

this coming from the guy who claimed that as late as Jan 1 the Giants weren’t any better than the Cowboys

please regale me with some of Tony’s statistics so I can wipe my hiney with them….

Individual players can't win championships by themselves no matter how well they play

so your definition makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

individuals lead - and lead by example...

they demand the most out of themselves and their teammates…they inspire…

Tony is on the beach in Cabo chasing bimbos the week before the biggest game of his career and the biggest that this franchise has seen in the last 15 years….

not to mention this is 12 months after the Seattle slip….biggest playoff clusterf@ck in franchise history…

guy cannot even pull down a snap when the game is on the line

Cabo, you really pulled that one out your ass.

Terry is right...

…McLovin9 is wrong.

that's what I meant

I too believe one player doesn’t win or lose a game or title … but now-a-days … it’s all about how many rings you have, and that’s how peeps compare QBs. That’s what I meant by accomplished.

Dub_TC - February 7, 2012 reply

By that logic Eli is a better QB than Dan Marino

and Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Romo.

dacolan - February 7, 2012 reply

EXACTLY!!!!!

And Eli is better than his brother Payton!!!! with that logic.

Don't forget that Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon are also just as good as Peyton.

And better than Marino. Give me a effing break. Shakes. My. Head.

What logic should be used then?

QB rating? So Jeff Garcia, Chad Pennington, and Daunte Culpepper were better QBs than Marino?

Trent Dilfer is a poor comparison for Eli

That Ravens D was rated the #3 defense all time, they had a poor passing attack, and a defensive player won the MVP in their lone Super Bowl run. The Giants D was like 14th in scoring and 20th in yards allowed this year. Their offense was in the top 10. The QB won MVP.

Few QBs win the SB twice, much less the Super Bowl MVP twice.

Ginats did two things very very well

Down the stretch – third and longs and turnovers…

No costly turnovers like some teams (ahem…San Fran) and how many third and sevens, eights, and ten+’s did Manning convert?

Remember when the Cowboys scored 14 quick points to get to 21-14 at New York?

Manning was facing a third and long, spun to avoid a possible sack and flung a deep ball to Victor Cruz matched one on one with Orlando Scandrick???

That play was the official start of the roll that led to the trophy.

I always wonder – had Scandrick made the play and forced a punt, would Romo have been able to tie the game at 21 and possibly outduel Manning from there…

We’ll never know…but I do know one thing…had Dallas won that game, Dallas would not be having a parade today.

Congrats to the G-men…see you next season!

I agree...

…had the Cowboys gone 9-7 instead they would have been crushed by Green Bay in the 2nd round.

It’s that defensive front 4 of the Giants that I marvel at. The Cowboys are much closer to the Giants at the QB position then they are in regards to controlling the line of scrimmage on defense. The Giants are light years ahead right now.

gee-roj - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Just my opinion, but I think that what really needs to happen is you guys need to get a real terror at DE

Lissemore has shown flashes, but he’s inconsistent. Ratliff is always awesome, but you need someone that can pressure off the edge to get the attention away from your OLBs. Ware would be even more dominant, but more importantly, you’d have pressure from the other side too.

It’s the Justin Smith effect. Aldon Smith didn’t have to do nearly as much work to get 14.5 sacks as one would think. Get a disrupting type in there and watch the magic. Melvin Ingram or Devon Still would be great at 14.

we have coaches that dont beleive getting pressure from the DL

we resined a slug run stopper in Spears & then found another scrub from cleveland in Coleman.
the Ryans value CBs more then OLBs/DL

it deffinetely hurts watching the Giants win

but as much as i hate them, i did root for them. if its not Dallas i want a NFCE team to win it. gives more love to the best division in football

yehti - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

if its not Dallas i want a NFCE team to win it

Except for Philly

Seanrude - February 7, 2012 reply

Or Wash

Antonio S - February 8, 2012 reply

Or New York.

Memo to Giants and Cowboys Fans!!!

Vegas SB odds for next season….to win it.

Eagles 6-1
Giants 8-1
Cowboys 20-1

Will the national perception of Andy and the Iggles as a SB favorite ever fade???

I hope it never does. Our teams always work better when we feel disrespected.

The difference between the Giants and The Boys is that they have

a much better General Manager!

I want to see how well Eli plays with broken ribs so I can make a better comparision.

The Giants got well in December and the Boys got worse.

Cowboys seem to fade every December....nothing new this year

look at Romo's November vs December win/loss....

I like how

You just said the Cowboys fade in December, then back track and try and blame it on Romo in your next comment.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

i dont blame it all on Romo....

his record is a function of the Cowboys collapsing down the stretch….

that being said – he doesn’t play his best football in December – but that could be a chicken vs egg argument

Romo doesn't have a record, the Cowboys do

and you’re wrong about him always playing poorly in December, this year he was lights out and Cowboys still failed as a team, that should tell you something.

could it be the coaching?

its been the same story since since the Tuna left

Is he not on the team?

It's a team record. Not only Romo's

Games: 8
QBR: 110.0
Comp-Att: 179-262
Pct: 68.3
Yards: 2108
Y/G: 263.5
Y/A: 8.0
TD-INT: 15-1

His December stats since 2009. He really doesn’t play his best does he…..

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

where did you get these numbers????

because Tony boy didnt play in 2010....

and i went back to 2009 and counted 2 INTS right off the bat…..so i suspect the other numbers are BS as well….

we not counting 2006-2008? just 09 and 11???

reverse engineering

Espn.com

Wanna look them up?

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

no need to....

i went to Dec 2009 and TD to INT was 7/2….i stopped looking after that figuring you pulled the #s out of your @ss….

Ahah

You blaming Romo is pulling sh!t out of your ass. If you want to continue to b!tch about Romo being the problem then I won’t argue with you. The fact is he is the best player on this team. He’s not the problem. No matter how many times someone beats that in your head, it seems you will believe what you want to believe. Can’t help you there, buddy.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

i dont think he is THE problem on this team....

but he’s not better than Eli….

thats what this whole thread is about – isn’t it???

I never said he was better than Eli

My argument was towards you pointing towards his “December record” Eli is the better QB right now because he’s had more success. But, I would still rather have Romo.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

i'm ok with that....

I think that one thing Eli has over Romo now......

(sigh) because I don’t want to get bashed. Eli has finally learned that he has to be a game manager as well as ESPN highlight throws. That’s where Romo still struggles. As Eli has stated, he has learned to not force throws trying to make a play when there isn’t a play. Unfortunately, the gambler in Romo hasn’t quite learned that.

Romo greatly improved on that this year.

He even talked about it after the Tampa game on NFL Network.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

he did improve in that area a lot

well the argument that you'll get...

is that Romo is a ‘gunslinger’ …and with a ‘gunslinger’ you gotta take the good with the bad….

gunslinger’s like cabo by the way – no humidity…

funny......

You are stating that Eli is a better game manager and has learned to not force the ball.

If that was true this past season, would one not expect Eli to have fewer interceptions? Yet, during the regular season, Tony had 10 interceptions vs. Eli’s 16.

Well, maybe you could argue that Tony is more likely throw more in a single game, costing Dallas that game. During the regular season, in the Detroit game, Tony threw 3 interceptions and in the Miami game, Tony threw 2 interceptions and Dallas had a loss and a win between those two games. Tony had 5 other games with 1 interception and 9 games with no interceptions. Eli had 2 games with 3 interceptions and 1 game with 2 interceptions, all 3 games the Giants lost. Eli had 8 other games where he threw 1 interception and only 5 games in which he did not any interceptions.

So, Eli had games where he had several interceptions and his team lost. In fact, he had more games like that than Romo did this season. Eli had fewer games in which he threw no interceptions than Romo. Even when you take into consideration his 4 post season games, Eli only had 8 games with no interceptions. In 16 games, Romo had 9. Eli even fumbled the ball more than Romo did.

I feel the argument that Eli has learned not to force the ball but Romo hasn’t is shaky at best.

When you break it down like that you make a valid point

Without looking at stats and knowing more about Romos 16 games in the season, this is my theory based on the perception thats out there – again this is through my bias eyes and its completey just a shot in the dark theory only based on what I’ve watched from the Giants season

There are 3 types of games played:
ones you have a comfortable lead
ones you are being destroyed
close game that can go either way

For Eli – most of his INTs fall under the first 2
For Romo – most of his are the games that could have gone either way

I’m talking out of my ass so sorry if this is greatly innacurate but if i’m correct (by chance) this could explain why Romo gets that unfair rep for not being clutch
Basically what I’m saying the person who can win the close games will have the perception of being clutch while the one who loses closes games will not – the number of INT in the season is irrelevent as far as the perception

I appreciate your honesty about your perceptions, and I may be a little biased myself.

That being said, here is a fun little fact: in games where Romo throws at least 1 int the Cowboys are 2-5. In games where Eli throws at least 1 int, the Giants are 4-7. These aren’t statistically different, but the sample size is small. This would argue against your theory, though this far from a perfect argument.

Now, here comes my bias. When watching Dallas, I feel in most of the games that they were close, they where close because of the amazing effort on Romo’s part. That being, I really feel close games are more decided by luck. In close games, you can usually point several plays. Most people want to use the Jets game as an example of Romo not being ‘clutch’ because he fumbled and threw an int. In that game, the 3 plays before Romo fumbles, you have Witten make a poor decision, next play I believe Nagy made a bad block, and the the next play Miles ran a bad route. In each of those plays, had the given person not made a mistake, chances are the play results in a TD, Romo never fumbles, and Dallas more than likely wins. Also, there was a blocked punt that resulted in a TD for the Jets. There were several plays in which any one could have changed how that game turned.

that is interesting

I must say I really don’t know the answer as to why Romo gets that bad rap

I know Eli had and still gets knocked for all his INTs – I honestly and perhaps biasly think there is a fine line between being clutch and throwing INT – if you make a gutsy, risky throw to help the team come back and win you’re clutch, but if you take that same chance and fail, someone intercepts it, then everyone says you forced it, and you chocked.

This is no excuse for Eli’s interceptions but there have been several games where Eli will throw it up before the half is over or try some ridiculous throws when they are being blow out – any INT that results in a team lost is unacceptable but I commend the guy for never worrying about his stats when he does that – there are some QBs out there that make sure their stats aren’t jeapordized – I think Eli and Romo are risk takers – as a football fan I respect that a whole lot.

I think Romo gets a bad rap because he plays for the Cowboys.

The Cowboys are one of the biggest names in Football. Not trying to knock any other teams. I believe at the beginning of the season, the Cowboys had the second highest worth out of all sports teams (first was Manchester United). Their games, both home and away, pull huge crowds and they still get decent rating. You either love them, or you love to hate them, but very few people are indifferent. All means the Cowboys are under a huge spotlight. Also, early in his career, Romo goofed a lot more than he does now. He’s gotten better, but the Cowboys haven’t had a lot of success, and people want to attribute that to the QB. So, you have a QB on a team that gets a lot of attention but the team doesn’t play well. Given Romo’s history, he gets dumped on.

Now, I feel the QB gets too much attention. I don’t believe Eli is elite. Now, I think he is good, but I don’t think he is better than Romo. Now, I do think that the Giants were better than the Cowboys this season. The Giants had a great WR corp and a a great d-line. After JPP blocked that field goal, my mom was wishing some pretty horrible things to happen to him. That is a sign of how well he played.

Cowboys franchise is a huge market

I guess you have to take the good with the bad then
if you’re going to be “Americas Team” and be in the spotlight every ThanksGiving then you’re also going to have to deal with the pressure of succeeding and the tough critics if you can’t

As far as the “E” word i really don’t get hung up on that if you can believe it or not. I’m sure everyone thinks every Giants fan believes and things Eli should be considered Elite. For me who cares, isn’t it more impressive if an OK QB can win the big game against an Elite QB.
If you could have super powers – and your choice was A)the most powerful man in the planet or B) the power to neutralize the most powerful men in the planet – I would choose B.
To me, Eli is an Elite-Killer. – He can beat the best in the games that count.

I have a very similar view.

I’d rather have the team that can beat the team that has the elite QB.

My thing is, it wasn’t Eli who applied pressure to Brady while he was in the endzone. It wasn’t Eli who caught the int. Eli never once sacked Brady. And the Giants’ WR made some spectacular catches that made Eli look much better.

This is not to say the Eli is some hack QB. I just tend to think if we could redo the season, but have Dallas and the Giants switch QB, I still think the Giants win the Super Bowl and Dallas sits at home.

Fair enough

I have no problem with that.
I’m the kind of sports fan that is loyal to the team first.
I’ll defend individual players but at the end of the day my loyalty is to the team. I guess thats why I don’t get caught up with Eli is he,is he not “E”, does he look like a doofus, could he win with a Dallas team, etc.
I whole heartedly acknowledge the NY Giants won – not any 1 player.

Well, if you're not caught up with any one player

want trade JPP for Spears?

I mean, you'd still have your Giants and I my Cowboys.

ok I never said i don't have a favorite lol

and he is actually my favorite lol
I just ordered his jersey and I hope he can stay healthy for many many years and become one of the Giants great

This was an amazing thread.

Props to you both! I am too lazy to rec it all!

I second bigham.

Great thread, great points, great respect.

Understandable

If he were a Cowboy, he’d certainly be one of my favorites.

Grimlock83 - February 8, 2012 reply

i'd say Ware has something to say about that

The fact is he is the best player on this team.

You're counting the January game.

December 09, December 11 = 8 games, 15 td, 1 int. And he hardly played the last December game…but I’m sure you’ll lump it in when making generalizations in the future.

CotySaxman - February 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Hah eh,

The point is Romo has not been playing as bad in December recently. Whether you believe he is the problem or not I don’t really care.

BrickTop - February 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Misfire!

I was defending you :) The other guy said there were two picks at the end of 09, but one was in the January game against Philly. I agree that Romo is excellent in essentially all situations, so don’t worry about me opposing you there.

I realize you got the game count wrong, as well, but your TD/INT numbers were correct for December.

CotySaxman - February 8, 2012 via mobile reply

nobody backtracking

you mean the Cowboys win/loss record

Eli played with a separated shoulder that should have kept him out 2 months and plantar fasciitis in his planting foot in 2009.

Had 4000 yds 28 TDs and 14 INTs that year.

A big factor between Giants/Cowboys as well was health. we also got healthy come late december, while you guys had some injuries IIRC

BigBlueIntervention - February 8, 2012 reply

Yea. Thanks for breaking our running back.

And eliminating our only clear advantage from those head-to-head games.

As for big game arguments, Eli played some of the worst games of any quarterback against Washington and New York in December this season. Ya know, the type of games that Romo would hang for. It still amazes me that Eli’s bad throws against San Francisco were so bad that numerous defenders had opportunities to intercept the same passes, injuring each other in the process. It’s like he won the game accidentally while trying to lose it. But, I guess, as long as they don’t lose, no one remembers the terrible decisions made.

CotySaxman - February 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Both of those "poor" throws in the NFCCG were wrong routes run by the WRs. I

In any case, you are right about one thing...."History is written by the victors"

Honestly, if Romo wants to be considered elite (regardless of whether he is or not already), he needs to win. Yeah thats a team thing, but people look at the QB, and that’s the hard truth about it.

BigBlueIntervention - February 8, 2012 reply

It is a stupid truth and I blame baseball and the mediots.

This is not baseball where a pitcher can be given a W-L record because they can single-handedly shut down the other batters and win the game.

This is football. It takes all 33 players from all 3 phases to win. If you don’t believe that, ask Kyle Williams.

So let me get this straight...

If the receivers ran correct routes…there would’ve been one Giant to go with the two 49ers at the ball. He threw a wonderful pass that, if all had gone well, would have been into double coverage…

Was the defender in the wrong zone, too?

CotySaxman - February 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Eli

played pretty well a few season ago with a partially separated shoulder.

Individual players can't be successful or not successful in team sports

Teams are either successful and not successful, not individual players. Players can only be evaluated or measured by their production on the field, whether they do there job or not, it’s that simple.

It takes all or the vast majority of the players on a team to achieve success as a whole. One player can not do it alone or fail alone.

Regarding production on the field, Romo is a better qb than Eli and far more consistent throughout this career. Manning, however, has played on teams that were more successful not only because of his play but his teammates played very well around him. The same cannot be said of Romo. His teammates actually have played a lot worse and as a result, the team has never achieved great success.

It’s not about the qb, it’s about the team. If Romo played for the Giants this season and Eli played for the Cowboys, the results for either team would be no different. Romo would be holding up the Lombardi Trophy as game MVP and Eli would be playing golf somewhere.

Success in football is related to teams, not players.

I can concede that Romo might be as good a QB as Eli, but I vehemently disagree that he's better.

I don’t think stats are the end all, be all for QBs. Important? Yes. The final word? Absolutely not. That being said, it is your opinion and I can respect it.

QBs can't be measured by team success

They don’t play defense or ST and don’t have 100% of control of the offense as well. Blockers have to block and receivers have to catch.

Individual production is really the only way you can measure or evaluate individual players fairly.

Romo has produced better than Manning throughout his career and even this year, that is simply a fact when you look at each player aside from the team they play for.

A lot of it is playcalling as well. You know why Eli does a lot better in the 2 minute drill then the rest of the game?

He plays the calls, he’s as good at dissecting the defense as anybody. He’s also cool under pressure, and his performance from one play to another doesn’t waver. Not comparing him to Romo (who may be just as good a leader), but Eli is the biggest leader on that team. He’s one of those dudes that makes the team better. That “it” factor. It may not be a satisfactory explanation for you, but it is what it is. Most 4th Q comebacks in first 8 seasons in NFL history. Single season record for most TDs in 4th Q in NFL history, one of 5 QBs to win two SB MVPs, best completion percentage under pressure….Romo is a great QB, but he is not better than Eli, regardless of the numbers.

You're talking to Terry, you might as well be telling a fence post the story.

haha is that so?

Terry has a boner for Romo

he can throw 4 INTS in a game and he’ll blame the loss on special teams…

overthrow to Austin in first Giants game – Austin’s fault – perfect throw….

Seattle slip?? noooooo……someone put KY on the K balls….not his fault

Blame the Tuna for leaving Romo as the HOLDER

how many starting QBs also hold on FGs?

No need to look it up, it’s 0. Get over the bobbled hold. We all have.

Maybe a trip to Cabo for you will get that bug out your a$$. Christ man, you’re so tightly wound up in your Romo hatred you might be able to crap out a diamond.

All you have is Romo hatred. That’s the extent of your fooball knowledge and Dallas Cowboys fandom.

I suggest you find a new team to cheer for, I hear the Colts and Andrew Luck will be looking for new fans bow that they’re in rebuilding mode.

Me, I stick with my team, and don’t hate on the starting QB for my team he who leaves it all out on the field, broken ribs and all, and who plays well. If more players played with Romo’s heart, this team would have already had it’s 6th ring. Damnit, we’re Cowboys fans, we shouldn’t eat our own.

If you were a Colts fan during Peyton Manning’s first 8 seasons, would you hate on him as they failed to reach the SB?

Seriously McLovin, come back with new material or don’t bother coming back anymore. You contribute nothing to the discussion. We pride ourselves as intelligent fans, not as a bunch of woe is me cry babies who hate on their team’s QB like the folks at BleedingGreenNation.com

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Eagles perhaps?

you'd fit right in over there

with your hatred of the Cowboys and Tony Romo.

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

i dont hate the Cowboys - nor do i hate Tony Romo

i see them for what they are and can call a spade a spade…

With fans like you the Cowboys don't need any haters.

McLovin9 did you star in a movie?

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 reply

No, that's Eli.

Yeah, you should see how he puts down the teams he hates.

When Romo is on...

IU believe when Romo is on he can make more plays than Manning, but Manning much more consistant…

Best way to put it…Manning usually is always running between 85-90 on a scale of 100. Usually always very strong…

Romo can run anywhere from 70-95…so once andd while he is actually “better than” Manning, but he is more often than not playing a cut below Manning…

Their career numbers say otherwise

all u got is numbers terry

Thats all I need to prove my point

Mike Vick

Threw for 400 yards, a pile of TD’s and ran forever against the Redskins that Monday night two seasons ago…

The Eagles factored that into his “numbers” at the end of the season and handed him a monster contract…now the fans want Peyton.

Always take out the numbers against the very best and very worst defenses they face and you have a much better way of comparing numbers…

It’s the bell curve theory…

Philly got what they deserve........... a POS.

And now they want the brass...

To figure out a way to land Peyton Manning.

Eagles fans are the most fickle nonsensical fans in the division…hands down.

Perfect Example

After the Eagles beat the Cowboys 31 – 7 in their first meeting last season, esteemed former mayor and governor now turned sports blow hard Edward Rendell said the following…

"Now Michael Vick is the best quarterback in the NFL today, and LeSean McCoy is the best running back, ever."

The Eagles were 3-4 at the time of the statement.

sad part is that they seem to have our number

even in an 8-8 season they beat us down handily twice….no contest

Rickki don't lose that number.

Andy Reid knows how to keep a job -

In Philly the priority is

1 – Beat Dallas
2 – Beat Dallas again
3 – Win the Super Bowl

Andy is a smart ton of marshmellows

Two outta three aint bad.

13 years of paychecks and counting

Cha Chia Ching!!!!

did you see how bad McNabb & Kolb were outside of Philly?

if Reid actually had a legit QB the Eagles would have multiple rings.
calling Reid a bad coach makes your comment useless. i dislike the Eagles just like the Steelers, 49ers & Redskins but i think coach Tomlin is great, the same with Jim Harbough. Philly knows if they lose Reid theres no one else even close to replace him. there is just not that many great coaches & Reid happens to be one of better ones in the NFL.
anyone who can get to a super bowl with McNabb can do just about anything & it wasnt like McNabb forgot how to play when he left Philly, it actually showed how great of a job reid did with a bad QB

What do you expect from the Mayor of Loserville?

Philadelphia mayors

Philly once had a Mayor drop a bomb on the city.

True Story…then he ordered the fire department to stand down and let a whole block burn to ashes….

they got a guy with more playoff wins with less talented teams than ROMO..

LMAO

Brandon10 - February 7, 2012 reply

whats sad is Vick & the Eagles have owned the Cowboys

basically calling Vick worthless doesn’t say much for Romo or the Cowboys. there might be 4 teams that can honestly say they dont want a healthy Peyton Manning & Dallas or Philly isn’t one of the 4.

Props to you BBI.

You seem to always keep a level-head even among a blog full of us Cowboy homers :)

Congrats to you and your team this year. It was well-deserved.

Thanks gershwin....much appreciated

The one saving grace for Dallas is Philly still hasn't won a SB.

Make me smile like a possum eating sh!t.

ELI MANNING TO GISELE BUNDCHEN - POST GAME NEWS CONFERENCE

“Hey, Woman. Hey, Woman! Listen here. Since your old man ain’t got no heart, maybe you like to see a real man…

“I bet you lay awake all night dreaming of a real man. I tell you what, you bring your pretty little self to my apartment and I’ll show you a real man.”

Mr T - Rocky 3

Had to do it...

Gisele just was too visible after that game…

Go walk a runway Gisele…let the men decide who wins and loses a football game.

By the way – no one mentions that Welker was open, yet had to twist and leap for the Brady pass…it would have been an awkward catch that he is claiming he catches 100 out of 100 times…Gisele doesn’t realize that Welker is actually protecting her man…it was a bad throw to a wide open receiver…

LOL

Hey Big Blue - just for discussion how many players do you have

still playing from your 2009 draft?

this is a big difference maker between the two teams.That and all the bad coaches JJ has hired after his ego caused him to fire Jimmy Johnson.

We have 5 players from that draft still on the roster.

Hakeem Nicks, Will Beatty, Ramses Barden, Clint Sintim, and Travis Beckum. Andre Brown is a practice squadder, and we got rid of the rest.

Nicks you know about, Beatty was very good in his first year starting this year (he wasn’t a starter last year, but played significant snaps)…gave up 3 sacks as an LT in 13 weeks, so pretty good. Sintim didn’t play his rookie year, than had ACL tears in each of his next two years, so who knows what his status is. Beckum has been playing for us, splitting time with Ballard. Just tore his ACL in the SB though.

What should make us sick is watching what the Giants

got from the 2008 draft that we didn’t get.

The Giants were picking behind us. It wasn’t pretty.

Sharksbreath - February 7, 2012 reply

I don't like beating my chest about stuff...but I will admit, we have been spoiled by our GM Jerry Reese.

I believe strongly that he’s one of the best in the league at evaluating talent.

Acorsi was solid too!

Don’t forget the guy who built the last SB for New York…

truth....I think Reese could be even better...he was Accorsi's head scout back then

Reese is the best GM in football

I definitely put him in the conversation for it

Chia Crack versus Jerry Jones

From what I can see – Chia Crack is better than Jones at draft analysis.

He seems to know more about what the team “needs” which is actually pretty scary.

Sorry Jerry – but it is true.

at least Chia

would be a reprieve from these 15 years in the Jerry Jones Desert

AustonianAggie - February 7, 2012 reply

true

maybe its because I have an outside perspective, thanks

Does anyone think Matt Ryan

Is better and/or as good as Romo?

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

No

Ryan is good…but not as good an athlete.

And I watched Ryan in Prep School.

Not me.

Not even close.

Yeah I agree

I came across an article from the Falcoholic in which they sort of debated the two.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Romo is better....

no

nope, and I think theres a sizeable difference

Stafford would be a closer contest, but injuries have really prevented him from taking off.

foyesboys - February 7, 2012 reply

Ryan is overrated

he also has the luxury of playing 9 games per season indoors and 2 more games in ideal conditions.

Eli is very good/great Tony is just very good

Watching them over the years Eli and Tony have gained a great deal of respect me.. It’s kind of hard to refute who’s doing better at the moment but I truly don’t believe the book is closed on either one of them. I mean Tony has three(3) seasons in which Eli only dreamed about until 2011(statistically speaking). I compare Eli’s career to a banana split. When you get a glimpse of it fresh it’s amazing but 10 minutes after that it’s sloppy spilling everywhere and all over the place.. But ten minutes after that you still can’t deny it was absolutely delicious. Tony has baked the cake he just needs the frosting.. That’s the biggest defense that Romo does have is that he’s more consistent on a year to year basis. Two rings?? Hard to argue with that however they came. But for arguments sake lets assume Tony wins 1 ring and Eli doesn’t win another they both double what they have done statistically in terms of years as a starter and production. In 12 seasons Tony would have 42000 yards 300 touchdowns 150 interceptions Eli would have roughly 55000 yards 360 TDS and 300 interceptions in 16 seasons. Both are great but in the age of quarterback ratings obviously Tony would come out on top… But to your point this is meaningless at today’s junction lol

BL0217 - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Yep

But on any given, if Romo is “on” I’ll take Romo over Manning simply because he can create a play from nothing much better than Eli can. That is not even debateable.

But overall, Manning is the steadier winner…

Remember, you are comparing a top 5 pick with a football pedigree to an undrafted guy from Eastern BumbleTech…so the fact that it is even a debate is a victory for Antonio!

Manning's got some of that "play from nothing" magic as well...just saying

That throw in the SB exemplified that.

True -

Romo is a lot like Farve – he can do the outstanding, but then plop….a bad pick!

Manning’s outstanding is not quite as amazing, but it sure is better timed and a lot less ploppers….

Once again – steadier, winner.

ha whatever it may be, I think we can conclude we're both lucky to have the QBs we have

I agree Rome One

But I will say, Eli Manning has become the Rain Man, a football savant. He’s oblivious to his surroundings and takes chances a lot of QBs won’t.

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

But I have seen

I have seem Romo make plays that I know Manning can not make…he doesn’t have the athletic ability…

Remember – Tony Romo was runner up for Mr. Basketball in Wisconsin two years in a row…he played point guard…Manning just doesn’t have the mobility Romo has…not a knock…

Manning has the athletic ability of a wounded duck....though he slides around in the pocket with the best of em

Hahaha

Very accurate

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

I can't read all the dumb, unfounded silliness

so I won’t. I’ll just echo Tarheel Paul. They are both really, really good QBs and both give their teams a chance to win. Good luck to both teams.

Now where’s that next mock draft???

dunkman - February 7, 2012 reply

David DeCastro

Lock stock and Barrel!

It's really a mute point......

bottom line-the Giants know how to finish-Cowboys don’t. I know Canty has a mouth but he did say something disturbing to me. He said that the Cowboys were a collection of talent when he was with the Boys. On the other hand, the Giants were a team. That’s the biggest problem that I see with this team. How do you fix that?

Start by getting a real GM.

The one constant in the Cowboy demise is Jerry.

unfortunately, you are correct......

you would have thought that Jerry would have looked at the Mavericks and saw how they finally put a team together and beating “The Media Darlings-Heat”. Until Jerry realizes that it’s not just assembling “talent” but “talent” and JAGs, I don’t see a lot of hope-not trying to be negative-just facts

SMITHERS - WHO IS THIS DIRE WOLF FELLOW???

I like the cut of his gib…but, alas, I plan on being GM from now until five years after my death…so, release the hounds!!!

Can someone

tell me what a JAG is?

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Just A Guy

Well...

Now I feel pretty dumb…

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

no need to feel dumb.....

good question

or a sh!tty car

hahahaha

I thought they were fancy cars

I know they have engine problems, but the look nice….

Montrae Holland.

Well actually he is JAFG

Just a Fat Guy….

Kenyon Coleman is a classic JAG

Gerald Sensabaugh

Just Another Guy.

Abram Elam
Orlando Scandrick
Mike Jenkins
Alan Ball
Frank Walker

Basically our entire secondary is a collection of JAGS.

Free
Holland
Costa
Chapas
Dockery
Holley
Holmes
Kosier
McGee
Ogletree
Parnell

And that’s just our Offense! Should I continue with our Defense???

Spears
Coleman
James
Brooking
etc, etc, etc

StarloverinWNC - February 7, 2012 reply

Nah.

Mike Jenkins is JAG? And you named like two guys that start consistently on offense.

Only two?

Wow, guess I blew that analysis.

Lemme guess the other was Free?

He of 10 sacks given up last season. I sure hope he was injured, but I never heard about it. Maybe that’s a good thing he wasn’t using it as an excuse?

StarloverinWNC - February 7, 2012 reply

You misunderstood a little.

On the list you had, the only guy I’d say for sure isn’t “JAG”, is Jenkins.

My other point was that, in all the other guys you named, only a couple actually start. It isn’t like other rosters are full of backups that are special, ya know? The two guys that we really relied on heavily on your list are Free and Kosier.

Is Free JAG? I don’t know. I certainly wouldn’t have agreed to that before the year started. I have faith he’ll return to being a pretty nice player once he is moved to RT.

Kosier has been really solid for us, for the most part. But I wouldn’t be all that upset about someone calling him JAG.

So. Jenkins isn’t JAG. Nearly all the others are JAG’s but it isn’t a big deal. That’s their role.

If I had to choose, I'd take Eli

bq.the 2011 New York Giants would likely have still been there at the end with Tony at their helm.

I support Tony as our QB and think he is at the top of the list of 2nd tier QBs in the league, but in the clutch, he is about 50-50. he can make a play or he can show nerves/miscommunication with WR’s. Eli meanwhile has a whole other gear he seems to go into even with 5 guys in his face—he seems to find that receiver down field (sometimes blindly) and make a great split second throw. those minute differences in the end determine the outcome of the big games. Until Tony wins big in bigger games, the criticism will not change, though it can’t all be rightfully pinned on him.

a voice of reason....hallelujah

having said that

It still blows my mind that the same Giants team that won the Super Bowl also got punked by Rex Grossman and the Redskins-who the Boys beat twice.

Cowboys beat the Giants twice in 2007....

doesnt mean much

no it doesnt

my point being how a team wins the super bowl, but in the same season cant handle Wrecks Grossman. I just dont see how they can be so average most of the season and then decide to play real football at the end

mah - its an average league now....

difference between 5-11 and 11-5 can be a couple of players and a couple of bounces

how does this team go 13-3 one year and then 9-7 and miss the playoffs the following season with essentially the same team?

you have fundamentally sound players at a few key positions, start playing inspired ball with good coaching…confidence takes over

the difference between 5-11 and 11-5

is a quarterback that can make plays in the clutch and a head coach that has guts and makes good decisions, we had neither!

although I would add

that had Tom Brady had the Giants receiving corps, you would have had a different outcome in that game

injuries. we got healthy at the right time

The lowly Redskins swept the Boys in the 1995 SB season.

Late for Dinner - February 7, 2012 reply

Grrr...

tanstaafl - February 7, 2012 reply

Romo and Eli's numbers are very similar, I like my guy better but I got no problem with Tony

Funny when Troy Aikman got put into the Hall of fame, I had this debate with a couple of friends that root for the Boys, about how Phil Simm, and Randall Cuningham’s were just as good if not better, the diffrence was that Aikman played on one of the NFL’s All time greatest teams, with a HOF WR and one of the top three RB’s to ever play the game.

Of course at the end of the day Troy has all the hardware and the yellow jacket so you can only go so far with that. As an outsider I have always thought the Cowboys problem was on the defensive side of the ball, Cowboys are fine with Romo.

No they are not.

LG4DC - February 8, 2012 reply

"Elite"

To me, to be considered in the elite category, you have to put up excellent numbers AND win championships. If you fall short in one of the two categories, then you just don’t belong.

So it’s Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers. That’s it. Eli’s numbers pale in comparison to those guys. Romo doesn’t have the rings. Big Ben doesn’t have the numbers. Rivers doesn’t have the rings. On and on…

At his 8th season, Eli is actually on par with Brees, Brady, Peyton. Brees has one less INT over the past 3 or 4 seasons.

Eli has slightly fewer yards, a few less TDs, but a higher YPC.

C'mon.

Brady has the single season TD record. He, of course, broke Peyton’s record. 50 to 49.

Eli’s career high? 31. He also has zero MVP’s. Only Brees, of the four I named, doesn’t have one. He isn’t on their level.

I thought that was Brady's 9th season, my mistake

I'm not taking that into account anyways.

Eli has been playing long enough to put up some truly dominant numbers like these other guys have. I don’t mean to disrespect or anything. Eli is very good. He may even lead the pack of the “second tier” guys. Congratulations, man.

Appreciate it.

I think either opinion of the man, “ELIte” or “2nd tier” can both be legitimate opinions to have depending on how you view an elite QB to be/what aspect of his play you choose to focus on.

Late for Dinner - February 8, 2012 reply

Well obviously than second tier is still good enough to beat elite so who cares the guy can play

Those that watched Marino play would disagree

dacolan - February 7, 2012 reply

Oh, I would, too.

But I know people won’t let me get away with an argument based on statistics alone.

Not saying they do a good job BUT.........

There are alot of reasons why the cowboys look the way they do today. In general I don’t think enough credit is given to the FO.. All people who believe JERRY JONES doesn’t want to win are for a lack of better terms RETARDED… Did it ever cross your mind that if he was solely intent on bleeding the faithful dry that it would be WAY MORE beneficial to actually be bringing the Lombardi home to Dallas? Just a thought… I’ll wait…………………. Of COURSE IT WOULD BE!!!! I believe he’s the greatest OWNER to play for. He’s willing to spend money on whatever is necessary! How many of your bosses do that?? I’ll wait………………………….. Now he may be a sh1tty GM but owner???? No way!! To his credit from 2007-2010 he’s been shoveling out the same" remodeled" team.. Keyword REMODELED… In 2011 we saw the beginnings a REBUILT team.. Remodeled looks good and is pleasing to the eye but at the CORE is just as sturdy as whatever piece of crap you had out there last week. Rebuilt is stripped to down and put back together from scratch.. IT’S NOT BRAND NEW you might not even have to replace some inportant parts but you’d never know the difference.. They might even thrown in a warranty if your lucky lol! All jokes aside I’m sick of a lot of you “only when we’re winning” fans!! Honestly you remind me of Yankees fans!!! Like if a guy doesn’t hit a home run he’s worthless!! Your so spoiled you don’t realize your still on top! Without a Lombardi trophy since 95 we still are ahead of 30 franchises behind the Steelers who won 2 SB in the last in the last 6 seasons! THE 69ers(hehe) are the only team with 5 and they havent had a WHIFF of anythings since. That is truly a testament to greatness we enjoyed in the early 90’s.. So be greatful and BE PATIENT!!

BL0217 - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

patient??

15 years is not being patient??

in which time every team in the NFC (except Wash and Det) have been to the conference championship….

in a league of parity and a fist full of 8-8 teams….1 playoff win in 15 years??

does that seem reasonable to you?

You have to be realistic tho there are plenty of teams who go longer EXAMPLE….. THE GREEN BAY PACKERSTHE NEW YORK GIANTS (17 years) wait THE PITTSBURGH STEERLERS NO Saints (NEVER) …. It’s coming sooner than later so don’t be a crybaby lol!!!! Seriously I’m encouraged from things i see! Read between the lines it could be alot worse… Houston will never win one lmao!!!

BL0217 - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

but those examples are pre-salary cap era situations...

as mentioned – the one constant has been Jerry….there’s an environment where mediocrity is celebrated, just making the playoffs is a big deal

where aging players from all over the league want to come to cash in that on that last payday and basically be put out to stud….no player accountability….HC is a neutered position….you have a problem – you can deal with Jerry directly

problem is that Jerry has become the Cowboys….there needs to be a separation of church and state….

We finally agree on something.

the cabo thing?

what Cabo thing?

It’s hard to disagree with what you say especially since we want the same thing. What’s understated is the idea that other owners don’t have influence on decisions about personnel. EVERY OWNER except for GB becasue of that unique situation has the last say. PERIOD. I don’t for one second believe that owners just show up on Sunday and watch games. They are all involved!!! It’s their money the way they keep it is to know what I being done. I AGREE JERRY SHOULD STEP BACK. When it does happen you’ll love him even more than you do now

BL0217 - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Some owners let coaches control things

Andy Reid runs the show in Philly. Makes all his personnel decisions and is the VP of football operations. Same with Belichick.

That's because their owners are business men, not football men like Jerry.

Mikellie - February 8, 2012 reply

No doubt he wants to win, but as I said earlier.......

the one constant in the Cowboy demise is Jerry.

great owner, bad GM

No, a great owner would have a great GM working for him.... see NE and NYG

as a owner I have no problem with him

he loves the team and would do anything to win
its the GM thing that bothers me

IMO, a good owner wouldn't hold on to a bad GM.

Great salesman

When people say Jerry is a great owner, I think they mean to say he is a great marketer and salesman.

kindablue - February 7, 2012 reply

A good business owner knows to never hire anyone you can't fire.

I learned that the hard way.

No, he would NOT do anythng to win.

If he would do ANYTHING to win, he would hire a real, competent GM. And he will not do that, so your statement is false.

And he cannot be a great owner because a great owner would fire a bad GM and hire a good one.

I used to think this...

But no, he’s bad at both. A goodowner would hire a competent GM and get out of the way. He’s terrible.

selke99 - February 8, 2012 reply

I just think the argument is moot right now

Romo is a really good QB no doubt about that, he is very talented and is very close to the elite category but he isn’t there yet for me
but he has not won big games, he has one playoff win

Manning has and has 2 super bowl wins, that’s just the way it is and he is playing great football right now

Romo's won some big games in the regular season

2006: Romo and the Boys took down the Colts (eventual SB champs); Romo and the Boys won at Giants Stadium; They also beat Mike Vick and the Falcons.

2007: Sweep the Giants; Win @ Philly; Beat the Packers (battle of two best NFC teams); Beat the Bears (defending NFC Champs).

2008: Beat the Eagles in Week 2; Beat Aaron Rodgers @ GB (Cowboys rarely play well in GB); Beat #1 seed Giants in Texas Stadium.

2009: Sweep the Eagles (3-0); Knock off the Saints; Beat the Falcons.

Romo and the Cowboys just haven’t won big games since 2009.

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Although it was sweet to see Kitna lead em to an upset of the Colts in 2010.

Romo would’ve played well in that game if he was healthy.

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Buffalo in 07 was a huge game

maybe not before kickoff but after he had a horrible horrible game he still had enough grit and intestinal fortitude to forget all that and lead the Cowboys into scoring range twice in the final minutes of the game for the win.

agreed

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Big games are in the post season.

Or games that get you into the post season.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

The 2007

Game against the Packers was the birth of Aaron Rodgers.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

That's when

1) Ted Thompson said “I hope Favre retires!”

2) Mike McCarthy said “I’m so glad I’m coaching this kid in GB not in SF regretting the decision to take Alex Smith.”

3) Brett Favre said “oh damn, if I waiver with my decision to retire, I might not get my job back.”

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

to be considered a great owner

you need to install a great GM to properly evaluate talent and ultimately-to win—that is why the Cowboys have been in trouble and that is why their fans have so much contempt for JJ. no one in their right mind would actually think he wants us to loose—but after so many bad drafts, trades, FA pickups—you gotta do whats best for the team. Last year’s draft seems to have been a good one (the future will tell), so perhaps he is listening more to JG and company.

But you also have to grow and evolve… What worked yesterday might not work tomorrow not saying you sink the ship but there are way more franchises who forever suck and will never be. Jerry came in the door swinging and got a KO. If its all about the money like so many claim I’m pretty sure he’s trying to ensure another KO

BL0217 - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

that KO was as much Jimmy's if not more

he was the one that orchestrated the deal with the Vikings for a ton of great picks, but then we had to be smart about who we drafted—and with the number of “hits” they had vs. “busts” during the Jimmy era, I would attribute a lot of that to him. post Jimmy there is no doubt in my mind who was calling the shots and we didnt start getting it right until last year.

No, the GM is not supposed to be

the talent evaluator. GM’s should be judged on how their Scouting Department does.

The good GM’s listen to the guys they hire that are actually skilled and trained to evaluate talent, and that is the Scouting Department.

Jerry doesnt make a move in FA or in recommending talent in the war room without getting input from the scouts, with the biggest influence being the “head of Scouting” Tom Cisnowski.

If you want to blame a GM’s success in FA or in the draft, blame him for not hiring a good Scouting department.

I think Tom has done a great job, and the future drafts will convince the Jerry Jones haters that Jerry has all of the sudden become “great at picking talent”, when in reality, it is mainly because of the Scouting Department that we had a really good draft last year, and it then should be noted that since Jerry is responsible for hiring/promoting Tom, then Jerry the GM gets the credit as well.

the difference from the Giant's fans' perspective is "clutchness"

in playoff games or win-and-in games, Eli has an outstanding record and Romo has a poor one.

The question is always how much is really the QB, and how much is the rest of the team and the way the ball bounces, especially in such a small sample size of games.

It seems to me that while Eli is very good overall, his two postseason runs have come with very good teams around him, and depended many times on key drops or other mistakes by the opposing team (Crayton and Asante drops in 2007, Packer and Pats drops and 9ers ST fumbles). Things that he had no control over which ended up giving him a win to take credit for. He wasn’t carrying the team by himself, but he was good enough that he could win when it counted with a good team.

And in many of Romo’s games he has played well but other aspects of the team have failed.

Lots of things outside of their control influence the outcome, and I do think overall Eli’s Giants have been better on his two SB years than Romo’s Cowboys have ever been. But maybe there is some element of intangible “clutchness” that helps tilt the outcomes and contributes to the success or lack thereof. Impossible to prove one way or the other, and how it’s viewed is heavily influence by fandom perspective, but all we can do is hope that Jerry and JG do a good enough job to give Tony a chance while he’s still playing at this very high level to make a run and get a ring or two himself.

scottmaui - February 7, 2012 reply

All I can do is plus this by about a million.

But maybe there is some element of intangible "clutchness" that helps tilt the outcomes and contributes to the success or lack thereof.

It’s that ‘something’ that you just can’t quantify. And Eli has ‘it’. Watching him check down to a 7th option and then flinging the ball towards the sideline to a breaking Bradshaw the exact moment before 3 Niner defenders simultaneously crush him. That’s what Eli was displaying in these playoffs. I’ve not seen that from Romo or really anybody since Favre really.

StarloverinWNC - February 7, 2012 reply

Yep,

and didnt Eli do a really good job of making that punt returner funble twice when the 49’s all but had that game won?

I have seen "it" from Romo

and he is just as good of a talented QB that Eli is, and I would rather have Romo on my team than Eli.

If I am not mistaken, Tony has the best 4th quarter rating in the NFL, and that goes a long way to show he has “it!”.

The only way to unemotionally rate a QB is with stats that are Individual and are not TEAM stats such as Wins and Losses are.

In the QB rating system, Romo is in the top 10 in the history of the NFL and is the only one who has not had the talent to support him enough so he could wear a Superbowl ring…..

Notice I didnt say “Romo hasnt won a Superbowl”, because I didnt say it on purpose. TEAMs win games, not QB’s or Head Coaches or Defenses…..TEAMS do.

Correction,

Romo and Rivers are then only 2.

putting aside our biases

I have to say if I was an owner/GM/HC and was asked would you like to have TR or Eli my answer would be……HECK YEAH

sexililkitti - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

I'm a cowboys fans and find Eli's smirky smile just darn creepy.

But Eli is better. No way Romo makes that throw to Manningham. No way Romo makes the 2007 throw to Tyree. We’ve seen Romo in clutch situations in December and he sucks. Romo makes awful decisions in key moments. Its like his brain stays in Cabos.

bresson - February 7, 2012 reply

And what FACTs do you have

that supports those “No Ways?” NONE!

I say “WAY!”

Romo makes all of those throws.

Your opinion is just that…..Opinion, because all of those statements are hypothetical. PERIOD, and that means not based upon fact.

The elite QB'S in the game today are Brady Brees and Rodgers (discounting Peyton because he didn't play)

You can rank them in any order and not be wrong.

Eli was great this year and I don’t wanna take anything away from his play. But the whole “ELIte” no no no.

He’s still in the second tier with the Rivers’s of the NFL. Eli pretty much sucked up until this year so let’s calm down before we crown him the 4th best qb in the NFL, there’s still that Rivers guy that outplayed Eli his whole career even though he had a down year. He still led the league in turnovers twice…last time was 2010.

All this clutch stuff needs to go away. He was pretty clutch all season I guess but you can make a case that green bay and San Fran basically lost those games more than Eli and the giants won them (see GB’s 5 turnovers and Kyle Williams).

The last season is in the past. Just like Eli’s awful 2010 season was in the past before this past season. Was this season a fluke thanks a lot to the lockout that led to offensive explosion? Could be.

We’ll need to see more of this play and some consistency before he can even be considered elite. I don’t care if he has two rings. Trent differ has one.. The giants have not been a juggernaut with Eli, they had 2 very unlikely championships… Good for them but Eli isn’t elite, for now. He’s a qb who had a god season and proved he could lead a team.

Eli wasn't great this year

he had a good year that ended with a superbowl win against the second worse pass defense in the league.

why is it so surprising that a good QB handled one of the worst passing defenses in the league?

Lissyyyyy - February 7, 2012 reply

"Handled"

They weren’t exactly standout numbers. Not that they were bad..

Blue Eyed Devil - February 7, 2012 reply

Jerry did this to Romo

2006-2009 drafts were atrocious and set back this franchise many years.

Lissyyyyy - February 7, 2012 reply

Jerry has wasted Romo's prime years

with stupid stunts like the Roy Williams trade and falling in love with bit players like Marion Barber and Ken Hamlin.

Lets give Parcells credit for mailing in 2006

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

And refusing to adjust his gameplan for the insurance agent cornerbacks.

yup

Rohpuri - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

hopefully "many"

means just three.

I think the ‘07-’08 drafts get a bit of a bad rap, but yeah, ‘09 and ’06 are black marks on the organization’s records.

Besides Mike Jenkins

the whole ’08 class underperformed.

The only player who exceeded expectations in the ’07 draft was Free.

Lissyyyyy - February 7, 2012 reply

scandrick still has a job

for a 5th rounder I don’t think you can say he’s underperformed.

Spencer and Bennett might leave, of course, but getting three starters(Jenkins, Free, Spencer) and three regular contributors(Jones, Scandrick, Bennett) in two drafts isn’t bad. Choice and Nick Folk also had their moments.

The ‘09 draft is the one that hurts. No-one needs to rehash this, but it’s not too hard to imagine Alex Mack, Vontae Davis, Clay Matthews, or Jairus Byrd being the difference between where the team finished and a playoff birth.

Alan Smithee - February 8, 2012 reply

both are good, Eli is 1 million x more lucky....witness the SF game 2 pics that

were inadvertently knocked away by SF teammates for just a small example. Not to men
tion all the fumbles that always seemed to get recovered by his own team.

fiverings37 - February 7, 2012 reply

While we are on the subject........................

now that they are super bowl champs how many of the Giants want more money or walk in free agency.

Remember our CB Brown MVP of the super bowl got a huge contract from Oakland.

Most of us Cowboy fans knew that a couple of ints. that he got were simply that he was completely out of position.

I don’t know how many of the Giants front seven are FAs but if they have some they will want to be paid.Piere-Paul wants enough money to rebuild Hati.

No Romo is not better but he can get better with a little help from his friends.

starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 - February 7, 2012 reply

the cowboys inflated so many role players value, it was fun seeing them leave and failing after refusing to compromise with Jerry

I think Ken Norton is one of the few Cowboys of that era to go on to any type of similar success after he left

If I was an owner/GM/HC & was asked would you like to have TR or Eli my answer would be

BOTH!

I'll concede this one until Romo has another shot in the POs

…but a couple things about the Giants success besides being generally a good team:

1) They are built well to compete against QB centric teams, which is what most elite teams are. Their passing situation sets are the best in the NFL, and when you’re in a situation where the other team has to pass, it’s a huge advantage. On the flip side their WRs are probably the best in the NFL in terms of making big plays that decide late games
2) Eli, while not the NFLs best QB, takes more risks, and is thus more unpredictable — when you look at Peyton Manning in particular, but also to some extent Brady and Brees, smart defensive teams are able to jump routes and make plays against them (see the NO-Indy superbowl), with Eli, that’s hard to do because he doesn’t follow the book — the flip side is that at times he’s very interception prone, but in the ultra-prepped world of playoff football, it works to his advantage, particularly when you factor in the huge playmaking ability of his receivers.

redandy - February 7, 2012 reply

HERE IT IS

If our D played well that woulda been us in the super bowl rather then the NYG. Romo is more elusive in the pocket then Eli. If they flopped teams Romo woulda had his super bowl ring/mvp. They are similar because when both are hot, they’re elite and when both are terrible they’re the worst. I wouldn’t trade Romo for nothin. He’s (statistically) is the best cowboys qb, but what separate Romo from Aikman and Staubach is, that they had a dominant defense. I feel if we resign Laurent, fix that OL and our whole D, We can get Romo that ring because he has matured so much. He doesn’t mat them stupid decisions. But back to the original topic. This argument is pointless.

JodieJoe26 - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Has

anyone heard the news about Mark Barron?

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

a hernia, right?

Yeah

Do you think it hurts his stock?

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Yeah. no pro day or combine for him.

biggest knock on him was his athleticism. Had he done well, he would have been a surefire 1st rounder. I can see him slipping to the late 30’s to early 40’s now.

So

Youre saying its possible the Cowboys can get him in the 2nd and continue their trend?

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Its a stretch....maybe if you are real lucky. I'd say it moved from impossible to unlikely

god please fall to #45

Don't Cowboys pick at 44?

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Nevermind.

BrickTop - February 7, 2012 via mobile reply

Garrett should be included in all of this discussion.

One of the biggest differences I see between these 2 guys, is that Eli rarely gets sacked, he gets the ball out quickly. When is the last time you saw one of our receivers take a short pass and take it to the house like Cruz, granted teams don’t have Newman on there teams to exploit, but does Garrett call plays to compensate for an average O-line? It seems like our routes take forever to develop which puts whole lot of pressure on Romo if our line cannot hold up.

juniorb - February 7, 2012 reply

Have you been watching since 2009?

but does Garrett call plays to compensate for an average O-line?

That is all he’s been doing.

Baked Potato Soup - February 7, 2012 reply

Yep, I have.

Has he? Just seems like Garrett gets a pass considering he’s been here for 6 years guiding this offense. You are never going to have a perfect scenario regarding talent. Your always going to have holes in your team, that’s where coaching comes in, making adjustments and making the most of your talent.

I would argue that this was Belicek’s best coaching performance. He took a team that is not fielded with blue chip players other than Brady and got them to the superbowl.

juniorb - February 7, 2012 reply

They're both great.

Eli is currently more successful, and seems to play with more confidence because of it.

Hopefully Romo gets halfway to equal success next year, and equals it the following year. Then he can surpass it the year after that.

Eli- “I am elite”. Backs it up and wins a Super Bowl

Romo- “We will win a super bowl”. Finishes behind the Giants (who lost like 6 straight) and the Eagles (QB constantly injured, defense blowing leads from left to right, turnovers, ect..)

Let’s not get carried away.

Brandon10 - February 7, 2012 reply

not that you'll care about the fact that you're quoting out of context

in all fairness romo said “this team will win a superbowl at some point.”. carry on hammering away at your agenda now.

johnnypocket - February 8, 2012 reply

I'd trade Eli for Romo in a heartbeat.

I used to think that Eli was just “lucky”, making last second decisions to avoid sacks, etc. Now I believe it is an admirable trait of a winner. I still hate the giants, but they have earned my respect this year(except for Jacobs, will always be a huge d-bag).

1 proud terp - February 7, 2012 reply

Congrats to the Giants, Coach Coughlin and Eli and all that. I picked them to win the SB the

same day they defeated the Niners. I’ve said on here before that as long as Coughlin and Eli are in NY, the Cowboys have little chance of overtaking them. I think much the same about Reid and Vick in Philly, who manhandled us like we were a pop-warner team. On the other hand, we did beat the Niners, and barely lost that 1st game to the Giants. All that said, I still think Tony Romo is a SB quality QB. If he has the necessary surrounding cast, he can get us there and win it. The Cowboys must get better, but they also must stop the seemingly unending bonehead mistakes. We can have little hope of success until dumb stuff stops happening. Right now, do you think we can even play a game as mistake free as the Giants had in the SB, against anybody at all. No.

CowboyMan - February 7, 2012 reply

GIants and being lucky

Ted Ginn misses the game against the Giants….his backup gives the Giants the game. The pick of Brady was defensive pass interference…not called. Eli himself said after the game he did not audible any of the plays…Gilbride made the calls. Eli is a good quarterback, not a great one. I cannot respect him because of the disrespect he showed the Chargers…same reason I think Elway is a dick.

ROMO#9 - February 7, 2012 reply

Not to mention rivers has outplayed Eli his whole career

Discounting this one year of all years…

Congratulations

The Giants do deserve a congratulations, regardless of how lucky I perceive them to be. I hope they can congratulate Tony and the Cowboys next year

ROMO#9 - February 7, 2012 reply

Eli is just lucky maybe

But if luck is repeated over and over maybe he has something else, who knows?
What I do know is, I was forced by network scheduling to watch at least 8 Giants games last year. In these games I repeatedly saw Eli under pressure, heaving desperate 40 yard passes that resembled PUNTS into double coverage. Most often, instead of these passes being intercepted, they are either dropped or pulled down by Nix or Cruz.
Maybe it’s skill and not luck, but it’s ugly.

can you atleast give him credit for having balls?

Eli does get lucky – but you have to take the risk to see if you do get lucky – many QB won’t do that.
Even though he’s dogged for throwing lots of INT, he’s not afraid to say fuck it, i’m going to heave it and trust one of my guys will get it.
I’ve read similar critiques like yours that sounds like you’re not convinced there is any skill involved because the throws are not “line drive” throws, they are as you say “punt throws” where the trajectory of the ball looks more like a hailmary rather than a Brady,Brees,Rodgers,Romo spiral thats more straight and not concave. – I can agree with the fact that it does appear as so, but fan or no fan how could you argue with the location, timing, and success of it. Kudos to our WR corps for completing so many but at the end of the season Eli accomplished what he set out to do, which was to throw less INT and minimize his mistakes.
SuperBowl aside, if Eli could emulate the type of 16 games he played this season that would be all I could ask for as a fan, it’s up to the rest of the team to try and give us a 10-6 or 11-5 season.

Just J - February 8, 2012 reply

Is Eli a co-founder?

But seriously how much did Peyton being his personal QB coach help this season?

perhaps more than anyone knows

I loved the fact that big brother was helping him analyze tape and giving and sharing anything he could to his little brother
We all know Peyton is one of the most cerebral successful QB strategist to ever play the game

Just J - February 8, 2012 reply

Oh yeah. I wasn't sure if NYG fans thought that was bogus or not.

Now the question will be can Eli retain and apply what Peyton taught him

nice post

I can’t argue with any of that.

oops

wrong comment

nice post

I can’t argue with any of that. Like I said, if somebody contiually seems to get lucky, then they are doing something right. I will give him credit for having a set.
Both QB’s seem to have a couple of brass eggs. The two main differences I see are: 1. It looks a lot better when Romo lets one fly. 2. Eli has two rings.

Another thing..now that I’ve thought about it a bit… with down and distance considered (ie third and long at midfield), throwing the ugly “punt” ball to the 5-10 yard line actually isn’t that stupid of a move. It’s not really the type of ball that normally would get returned far if intercepted as the receiver will usually just pull the DB down at the point of catch and effectively the pass becomes a punt. And as I’ve witnessed a couple of good things can happen. 1. completion 2. defensive pass interference. He is a Manning so maybe there is a method after all.