As the Dallas Cowboys try to figure out how to make needed improvements to their defense, one question that just seems to keep getting more important is what to do about OLB Anthony Spencer. While many argue that he is just not giving the team what it needs, others point out that he is quite capable at what he is asked to do and the odds are that whoever replaces him if he leaves will actually be a step backwards. But with free agency rushing towards us like a tree sloth on downers, the chances are growing that his services may be bid up, to the point that the team could have to hang a franchise tag on him to retain his services, using up more valuable cap money than most of us would like.
The main argument against Spencer has been his lack of success getting to the quarterback. Generally, the belief is that he is not helping his teammate across the way, All Pro DeMarcus Ware, enough. The counter argument is that he has a different role in the defense, and if you take a more analytical view at the big picture, you would see that.
But if the issue is how much Anthony is helping DWare, wouldn't it be nice to find out what DWare thinks?
If you haven't guessed by now, he discussed just that, as reported by Brandon George of the Dallas Morning News.
What he said, and a few other things, after the jump.
Cowboys outside linebacker DeMarcus Ware said he wants to see Spencer return to the Cowboys.
"I think it's really important to get Spencer back because if you look back, he's not a guy who is probably going to have 40 or 50 sacks, but at the end of the day, he's a run-stopper," Ware said Saturday night while representing Red Bull at the Supercross event at Cowboys Stadium. "He drops a lot and you see a lot of pass breakups and a lot of tackles for loss, so he's making a lot of plays for us but they are subtle plays. He's a solid player we need to keep."
While some might want to interpret that as just a guy standing by his teammate, I think DeMarcus tends to be rather honest and straightforward in his opinions. He didn't seem to have much problem voicing his disagreement with Jason Hatcher on the leadership issue. No, I think this is really how he feels, just stated in a measured way that seems typical for him.
And I also think, since the Spencer and Hatcher remarks came from the same interview, that maybe Ware was also trying to step up his role a tad. One of the reasons I have seen given for Anthony's desire to test the market is the lack of respect he gets in the media and from the fans in Dallas. Let's face it, he could use a lot that is said right here at BTB as motivation to get the bleep outta Dodge. DeMarcus may well have seen this as an opportunity to try and counter some of that, and also to step up and do a little of what Jason Hatcher seemed to say did not happen. Taking care of your teammates is certainly one part of the whole leadership package.
I have not always been rock solid in my support of Anthony myself, but I try to study what is said by people I feel have some measure of credibility. In football, I have more respect for the opinion of most coaches and players than I do for what many reporters and bloggers say. Rob Ryan has defended Anthony before, and I still think he is going to turn out to be a pretty good Defensive Coordinator. DWare, though, just demands respect. He not only is one of the best players in the NFL, he also comes across as very intelligent. He has that funny thing called gravitas. You believe what he says because it is him saying it.
A few days ago, I was thinking that Spencer was worth a reasonable contract, but not the $8.8 million a franchise tag would cost. Plus, with an estimated $711 million in total NFL cap space for the teams to spend, according to John Clayton at ESPN.com, there is a lot of money out there, and that $20 million or so Dallas will have suddenly doesn't look so impressive.
That just puts a little more pressure on the March 5th deadline to make the franchise tag decision. While the cost may be higher than we would like, not using it could result in having Spencer walk, and leave the team worse off than it was. And the cap cost is not fixed, since it is based on a one-year deal. The team may be able go in and negotiate a longer term deal that spreads that cap hit out a bit. Anthony only made $1,001,000 last year, just to provide a little reference. The team needs to get this right.
It is a hard call. It really comes down to what and who you believe. Is he really just Almost Anthony? Or is he what DWare says, a player the team needs to keep? I'm not sure, but I would not argue very much with Mr. Ware, either.
0 recs | 232 comments
good post Tom
always nice to get insight from the players, especially a dware type…
i hope we can work a contract out… keep him, but don’t franchise him… it’ll be interesting to see how much other teams will drive up his price
CowboysFan4Life - February 22, 2012
I think the Cowboys would love to work out a long term contract with him at around 5-6 mil per yer
But if not, I think they will conclude they have no choice but to franchise him. Butler or a rookie will not be as productive next season no matter what JimmyK says.
Terry - February 22, 2012
I agree, if Butler could replace Spencer, don't you think RR would have done it already?
pfloyd1 - February 23, 2012
I've heard Spencer takes alot of abuse in Dallas from the fans and media
I don’t think it will be automatic that he will resign especially if that is true.
Antonio S - February 22, 2012
I think the tag is the way to go.
We can settle on a long term deal later. I think Spencer wants to feel wanted. And tagging him Definitley let’s him know how serious the cowboys are about keeping him around. Tag him 1st then work out the 5yr $30 million deal.
The Loco Llama - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Most probable outcome
and hopefully they negotiate a low year 1 cap hit so they maintain flexibility in FA, whether the big fish or several medium fish approach.
DB23 - February 22, 2012
everyone wants to feel wanted but NFL players get paid off production & not emotions.
a run stopping OLB that cant beat one on one blocks just isnt worth much in this era of the NFL. its a passing league & giving up an extra yard per rush isn’t going to hurt the team compared to the lack of pressure on passing teams.
how many games will Spencer win this team? my guess is zero & on top of all that he admitted to quiting on the team when things were tough.
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
No player wins games for any team
Terry - February 22, 2012
Anthony Spencer got 35 pressures this year...
That is 9th most amongst 3-4 OLBs and 2nd most on the team (next to DWare). I think it is safe to say that some of those pressures led to DWare sacks.
BVandy - February 22, 2012
Or would have been sacks had Newman and Co not been burned eight yards deep.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
Anthony looked a heck of a lot better when our CBs could cover
AustonianAggie - February 22, 2012
+1 totaly agree. If we fix our secondary we won't be calling him Almost anymore it will be, "at-a-boy Anthony!"
Hopefully Jerry and crew can figure out a cap friendly deal. Keep the 1st rd. pick happy, keep some chemistry flowing and get this D back to Doomsday status.
letsgtld - February 22, 2012
Seriously.
Pro-Spencer guys tell me he’s good against the run and covers well. Any time I’ve heard someone suggest moving him inside to ILB, it’s quickly discarded. He seems to have the things you want in an ILB, so why not?
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
because we already have Lee and Carter at ILB
Terry - February 22, 2012
People are pretty quick in assuming Carter is going to be good.
That doesn’t matter though. People said Spencer couldn’t play inside before we got Carter. It isn’t that I think Spencer would make a good ILB. I don’t think that. I think what he does against the run and in coverage are overrated.
It just doesn’t add up to me that Spencer is so great against the run and apparently lockdown in coverage, too. But if he moved over a few feet before the play started, that wouldn’t work..
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
He's not lockdown in coverage
Just better at coverage than most 3-4 OLBs.
ary201 - February 22, 2012
Can he punt?
I don’t even know if I believe he’s better than most OLB’s in coverage. Hell, maybe he can punt. If he can’t rush the passer, and he can’t, then we can upgrade.
I value pressure over stopping the run and covering Cooley in the flat.
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
Spencer can and does rush the passer...
And as I said above, Almost Anthony had 35 pressures last year; 2nd on the team and 9th amongst all 3-4 OLBs.
BVandy - February 22, 2012
Theres a big difference in a 34 OLB and a 34 ILB
OLB’s are predominantly responsible for contain on the edge, something that isn’t always the case for ILBs. You can’t say for certain he would be good against the run as an ILB
mahuebel - February 22, 2012
I don’t know but he’d easily be the biggest ILB i’ve seen. He would make a good thumper though
AustonianAggie - February 22, 2012
Remember Levon Kirkland?
dacolan - February 22, 2012
Yeah, dude watched wrestling.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
Because he can't cover that much space.
Playing the run as an SOLB he sets the edge and the play comes to him. At SILB, he’ll have to read and react and chase down RBs and WRs in space.
Besides, everyone agrees he’s decent at pass rushing, just not great. Are you really utilizing your talent when he isn’t going to rush the passer at all?
ary201 - February 22, 2012
To be clear.
I don’t think Spencer would make a good ILB. I don’t think he makes a good OLB, either.
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
Spencer is a good OLB, he's just not great like Ware but few OLBs are
Terry - February 22, 2012
"good" OLBs just aren't worth almost $9 million
even at $5 million it doesn’t improve the pass rush with him on the roster & other teams will continue to take advantage of that weak spot until its fixed.
most QBs get the ball out of there hand really fast these days & its only getting quicker. its not the Eagles or Giants secondary thats causing Dallas problems & if Dallas doesn’t get on the same page as those other teams its going to be another long season.
i rather see that $ spent on Carr & a Center or Guard
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
They are worth it if they are great run stoppers who can also rush the passer
Spencer isn’t Ware rushing the passer, but he’s average. Whether you like it or not, 9 mil per year is the going rate for OLBs who have been as productive as Spencer in all phases of the position.
Terry - February 22, 2012
Stopping the run is not a guarantee to winning anything
The Giants had a horrible run defense and won the SB.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
If you can't stop the run, you can't stop any offense
The Giants didn’t play horrible run defense in the playoffs or in December, their run defense at that time was pretty stout.
Terry - February 22, 2012
The Giants run defense
1) Held Dallas under 100 in the rematch because Dallas was playing from behind the whole game. They had to abandon the run. This was the same defense that got torched by Dallas and Washington in December.
2) Atlanta’s running game wasn’t that good if you follow DVOA.
3) The Packers lost not because they couldn’t run the ball, but because Rodgers and the receivers were off their game, and Rodgers was getting pressured from every direction.
4) The only running team the Giants handled was the 49ers. Hat tip to them. They forced Alex Smith to beat them and he couldn’t.
5) The Patriots didn’t have a big enough lead to ice the game on the ground. Their running game wasn’t stopped, rather their passing offense was held in check.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Well it shouldn't be the going rate for the Cowboys.
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
Cowboys aren't going to be able to get a cheaper replacement
who will be as productive unless a guy like Ingram or Upshaw are going to be very productive rookies.
Don’t think the Cowboys want to be forced to draft an OLB at 14.
Terry - February 22, 2012
Ingram and Upshaw aren't the only pass rushers in this draft
There’s Vinny Curry, Bruce Irvin, and Johnathan Massaquoi.
You know how the Steelers got better at their pass rusher? They cut the cord with Joey Porter and Clark Haggans in favor of James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley following the 2006 season…promoting Harrison to starter and then drafting Woodley in the draft.
It’s very possible to get better by getting younger. Not bringing back Spencer also saves this team money that can be applied elsewhere.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Well at those prices it's a no brainer
Same thing with Spencer, not sure the Cowboys have a James Harrison or LaMarr Woodley on the bench, though.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
I'd rather use Butler and get a NT if the cost is 9M.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
$9M is the going rate for the top-5 OLBs in the NFL
Ware, Suggs, Woodley, Orakpo, Mathews, etc.
Spencer isn’t close to that stratosphere
dacolan - February 22, 2012
Mathews and Spencer at the same pay grade? No thanks. He should be paid
well below the average of those guys.
CowboyMan - February 22, 2012
Ehhh...
I would say he’s not worth 9M to a team that has at most 20M cap space and other needs.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
Also, if the problem is that he can’t cover so much space, then does he really cover well?
I mean, if the job includes covering a small amount of the field as opposed to a larger part, then it seems like coverage ability shouldn’t be high up on your list of wants in an ideal candidate.
If we got a guy that could bring the pressure but can’t cover or set the edge, I think we’d be better off.
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
Spencer looks more like a 4-3 DE imo
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
So do most 3-4 OLBs
Terry - February 22, 2012
you guys are absolutely nuts if you listen to what players say for about 10 different reasons.
the biggest, hugest, reason that shouldn’t have to be mentioned reason is they’re not unbiased. they’re the opposite of unbiased. they’re the most biased you can get outside of the more rabid fans on BTB.
they badly want to believe that they’re all-pros, that they give 100% every play, that they’re real Super Bowl contenders every year, etc etc etc.
you want good analysis … go ask a smart denver broncos or KC chiefs fan what they think of Anthony Spencer. Someone who isn’t invested in the outcome who can give you an objective assessment.
Fan in Thick and Thin - February 22, 2012
Yeah.
If Ware had said that Spencer doesn’t provide as much pressure as he should, people would be upset.
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
wrong
A Bronco or Chief fan doesn’t watch enough Cowboys games to know Spencer’s worth.
Terry - February 22, 2012
are you kidding
everybody watches the Cowboys
AustonianAggie - February 22, 2012
funny
Terry - February 22, 2012
I knew that. I had a Niner fan years ago that insisted he only watched the Niner games. Somehow, though
every time the Cowboy’s lost a televised game, he knew every detail about the loss. (in those days kids, every game every week, wasn’t on TV)
CowboyMan - February 22, 2012
wouldn't you agree that Ware is biased?
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
everyone on this blog is biased one way or another
Few commentators are 100% objective in their opinions, that includes both players and fans.
That being said, I’d personally be more inclined to take the word of a player who plays along side Spencer than any clueless media pundit or fan.
Terry - February 22, 2012
I get what you're saying.
I can see the logic that there is value in the sort of “insider information” that Ware would have on Spencer.
However, I think that is diminished when you also consider the fact that Ware, regardless of what he really thinks, shouldn’t be out in the media slamming Spencer and he knows that. It would only hurt the team.
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
how about this ‘inside information’ from a player …
that Ware wanted Greg Ellis on the field so bad that Ware would hide from coaches so Ellis would get more playing time .. remember that?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/09/did-demarcus-ware-hide-from-coaches-so-greg-ellis-could-play/
Fan in Thick and Thin - February 22, 2012
does everyone remember the start of the season. Spencer said he could’t mail in days … and everyone got excited ..
here’s what I said at the time
so did Spencer mail in practices again in 2011? is that why he topped out at 6 sacks?
Fan in Thick and Thin - February 22, 2012
but awesome for bringing it up … otherwise I would have totally forgotten about this hilariousness from the same thread …
Fan in Thick and Thin - February 22, 2012
and Rob said he would be a monster in his D???
Cookie Monster?
ziggy19 - February 22, 2012
oh sorry thought you were still talking about Spencer.
Spears to big to be a Cookie Monster maybe Snuffleluffagus
ziggy19 - February 22, 2012
that’s a different point … that coaches are biased as well …
Fan in Thick and Thin - February 22, 2012
haha
to be fair, Ryan’s job isn’t to be honest with the media. He may be exaggerating there. On the other hand…he may not be. Lets hope its the former, because you know Jerry will listen to him come decision time.
foyesboys - February 22, 2012
Also a lot of Cowboys fans hate their favorite team.
Omar Little - February 22, 2012
my team gave me a lot of grief last yr
very little pleasure.
ziggy19 - February 22, 2012
Yea
What does d-ware know about good OLB play anyway!
sgitr - February 22, 2012
Oh, of course.
I'm sure he has nothing to add to this argument.Tom Ryle - February 22, 2012
Tackles For Loss
Does anyone know what the tackles for loss comparison is between Ware and Spencer if you count sacks and tackles for loss as the same thing?
Jace M - February 22, 2012
Ugh, I did not phrase that correctly. Let me get back with you.
Jace M - February 22, 2012
I think the statistic you are looking for is stops...
Dware had 42 stops (which include sacks and plays in which the offense fails to be successful), which was 2nd amongst 3-4 OLB. Spencer had 39, which was 4th.
BVandy - February 22, 2012
Exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks.
Jace M - February 24, 2012
He's not the problem, $8.8 is the problem and I don't like band-aid fixes at that rate.
I think we can all agree $8.8 is more than we would like to spend on him considering that money could be better spent elsewhere (CB for instance, Jenkins will be on the market next year). If we can extend him for a reasonable contract keep, if not his clone Ahmad Brooks is a FA as well and I doubt both will get big contracts.
DCB* - February 22, 2012
+1 -1
8.8 million is too much no question. Band-Aid fix? There IS no one else this year. Got it? No one.
torchindefenses - February 22, 2012 via mobile
even if he signed for $2 million it doesn't improve the pass rush lol.
if Dallas doesn’t improve the pass rush then the top 10 QBs in the NFL will continue to have all day to make the throws.
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
I can see you didn't fully read the comment, regardless
There are many ways to go about fixing the pass rush, but if I remember correctly Dallas finished the season ranked as a top 10 team (I believe I’ve seen 7th in the NFL) in sacks. They also finished the season in the bottom five (I believe 28th) in pass defense. Being that bad in pass defense does not help your pass rush. QB pressure and sacks come from a combination of coverage and pressure same as interceptions. In the current situation I would like to see improvement in both coverage and pressure players, but with an emphasis on coverage players as that is the glaring weakness. If we had better coverage maybe we get additional coverage sacks or at least interceptions/turnovers on the pressure passes that we have forced QB’s to throw.
DCB* - February 22, 2012
DCB* - February 22, 2012
Bingo
I think Spencer is under-rated and Ratliff is over-rated. More big uglies on both sides of the ball.
jrogersdal - February 22, 2012
DCB, Absolutely.........
I have been talking about Brooks as a potential FA acquisition for well over a week now. I say let Spencer test the market, and we attempt to bring Brooks to Dallas for a 2 million signing bonus, and a 3 year 10 million dollar contract. He is getting paid peanuts in SF, and for an extra collective 3 million (over 3 years) versus a one year 9 million tag, Brooks, IMO, could be a very good replacement for Spencer. Spencer is not at all irreplaceable, and I don’t think the Cowboys miss him much at all if he leaves. To summarize, let Spencer walk, replace him with a solid OLB (Brooks, or other), and absolutely improve the Secondary (Finnegan to start, perhaps) to further help out that pass rush. I would LOVE the Cowboys to go out and pick up Kyle Orton to back up Romo (and maybe Orton could possibly replace him in a few years, potentially). A DT addition is also needed to add depth (and to compete with Lissemore) if they end up moving Ratliff to DE. Secondary is the rest of the additions needed. There are a lot of holes to fill, but there are ways to get it done.
jsrdc - February 22, 2012
spencer puts up median sack totals because he’s used to help cover space and receivers that the secondary has been unable to the last few years – and sure there’s a value in that – but i also can’t remember a time i saw spencer routinely beat one-on-one blocking. i suppose if he’s just turned loose w/o the other reads slowing him down he could do better. i also think, though, that you could find that somewhere else and for much cheaper. i don’t even think that’s the defense that ryan runs anyways since he’d rather send a blitzer you miss picking up, and cowboyfan needs to pull away from that idea that says draft ingram or upshaw or somebody else to replace spencer.
strokes - February 22, 2012
The way I see it
1) I like the article Tom. It’s good to see DeMarcus Ware stick up for a teammate, kind of showing Hatcher how to lead by example-showing support for a teammate whose under intense scrutiny by the public,
2) I disagree with Ware however. If anyone watched the Giants win the SB they showed you don’t need to have the league’s best run defense to do so. It’s all about sacking the QB, protecting your QB, winning the turnover battle, winning on third down, and winning in the redzone. It’s not rocket science. Teams talk about running the ball more and stopping the run because that’s a cliché which the mainstream media latches on too quite easily.
3) Regardless of a team’s defensive philosophy, you better have a DT/NT who can blow up the interior oline, and have playmakers in the secondary (both S and CB) who can defend the pass, and intercept the ball. Without those two things, I don’t care if you have DeMarcus Ware or if you hold teams below 4 yards a carry, you’re not winning a SB.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
The 2010 Packers vs 2011 Packers
The 2010 version still had Cullen Jenkins on their DL, and had a healthy Nick Collins to play FS.
The 2011 version lost Cullen Jenkins in free agency, and lost Nick Collins for the season due to injury.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
If Dallas wants to get a SB
1) Improve the secondary
2) Move Ratliff to DE and get a legit NT
3) Replace Spencer, as his production can be had for less than the market price-you can find Spencer clones or better production if you like, in the draft. Spencer is not an irreplaceable part of this defense.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
disagree you can find a replacement for Spencer than will cost less than what he will receive on the open market
Terry - February 22, 2012
I'm advocating drafting Spencer's replacement
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
So, you're advocating replacing Spencer who already knows this defense...
to a rookie coming in from college ball who will probably thinks this defense is the calculus he never took in school? You’re taking a leap of faith to say the least. Spencer for one more year won’t hurt. It will definitely help whoever they draft to ease into things.
TheCowboyFan - February 22, 2012
I'll roll the dice
With a combination of a rookie and Victor Butler. At some point we need to see what we’ve got in Butler. He needs more snaps.
We know what we have in Spencer, and his production is replaceable, and we can save money.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Butler plays weak side not strong. That's documented, and I am sure it's for good reason.
Butler can’t play that side. Spencer may not be the best, but he is top 5…not bottom 5. He may not get “enough” sacks, but he leads all SOLB’s in tackles. At least he makes those.
TheCowboyFan - February 22, 2012
how do you know Butler "can't play that side?
as for Spencer being a top 5 SOLB doesn’t mean he’s good & thats the reason a lot of teams are moving away from the 3-4.
a turd is a turd & Spencer is a turd
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
LOL
A turd is a turd & Spencer is a turd. Take it from me, you heard. But hey, at least he’s not an alleged drug dealer like Sam Hurd!
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
F+
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
It's simple...
how many times have you seen Butler give Spencer a breather? He had been here since ‘09…if he could play that side, he would have already don’t you think?
TheCowboyFan - February 22, 2012
Like Creasy and I said above
Defending Spencer because he can tackle (that shouldn’t be hard to replace) is like defending Roy Williams and Marty B for their blocking. Neat. I’ve seen enough of Spencer.
I say Let him hit the market.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
should say
“Like Creasy and I said below…”
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
He had to read a play correctly and position himself correctly.
You are also omitting he has very high QB pressures, sets an edge, and can cover a TE or RB a little.
BlueNSilverBlood - February 22, 2012
When I think of Anthony Spencer
I specifically see Knowshon Moreon catching a pass thru Spencer’s hands for a TD; Brandon Jacobs scoring on a 60 yard TD catch with Spencer “covering” him; I also remember Delanie Walker scoring on a wheel route with Spencer “in coverage”.
But hey, he sets the edge!
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
well said Rohpuri
they really need that legit NT to blow up the interior of the OL & let Butler, FA or a rookie come in to battle for the starting job opposite of Ware.
Lissemore – legit NT – Ratliff would make this D a lot better.
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
Band-aid = temporary
If we get him franchised (and do not workout a long term contract), we will still need to draft his replacement, so if we are going to draft his replacement anyway let’s not prolong the inevitable and just let him walk. Don’t get me wrong I would like for the team to retain Spencer and feel his contributions are underrated, but I also disagree that there is no one else this year.
DCB* - February 22, 2012
reply to torch ^
DCB* - February 22, 2012
if what Garrett preaches is true
we need to keep getting better – then Spencer has to go, last yr was a contract yr for him, we have seen his ceiling.
ziggy19 - February 22, 2012
yup
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
just because he is a average player isnt bad
you need average players to. i like Spencer. it would kinda suck to everyday have to play next and be compared to DWare. if Spencer is Franchised then JJ and JG didnt think there was a better option this year.
what does 2013 look like for pass rushing OLBs in the draft and FA?
yehti - February 22, 2012 via mobile
it would also help playing next to DWare as well
yehti - February 22, 2012 via mobile
OLB isn't the place to have an average to below average pass rusher.
there was to many times Spencer just disappeared the entire game & if they think Butler can give them any lift rushing the passer then theres a reason they didn’t jump on tagging Spencer
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
yup
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
I've seen Ware disappear plenty of times as well during crunch time
Terry - February 22, 2012
That's because
He’s gassed from eing the only guy who can consistently bring the pass rush.
Ware accounted for approximately 45-46% of the team’s 42 sacks in 2011. That’s ridiculously high.
If you get Ware help, he becomes more effective late in games, as teams will no longer be able to just double and triple team him.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Yehti you're missing the whole point
It’s not about Free Agency, it’s about the draft. You find his replacement in the draft itself.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
LOL...JAGS need love too!
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Let's take this a different Direction shall we?
What does Anthony Spencer bring to the table?
he is a good runstopper, adequate in coverage, and below average in passrushing. I think we can all agree on that.
so considering that, what is that worth in today league? considering the NFL in moving to a pass first mentality, is a below average pass rusher, that is adequate in coverage worth paying almost 9 million per year? IMO no.
however, Spencer effectively plays two positions in the Dallas Defense, 3-4 LOLB and 4-3 LDE. Both of these positions require different “skill sets” as Dallas uses both Differently…as a 3-4 LOLB he is required to drop in coverage, set the edge against the run, and rush the passer. As a 4-3 LDE Rushing the passer become the primary purpose, but he still has to “set the edge” in case it is a run.
Now here is where it get tricky. Dallas with Ware is playing what amounts to a 4-3 out of a 3-4 alignment. Which means that Spencer effectively becomes a 4-3 LOLB, when Dallas is in its 3-4 alignment. But If Dallas goes to a 4-3, Dallas moves Spencer to the 4-3 LDE spot.
So how does Dallas upgrade from Anthony Spencer? He is a 4-3 DE in certain situations, and a 4-3 LOLB in others. Which is the root of the problem(IMO). Spencer is playing to completely different positions that require him to play completely different. But to upgrade from Anthony Spencer, Dallas would have to play two different people in the positions that Spencer currently plays, OLB and DE.
so how much would it cost Dallas to pay TWO players to play the OLB and DE positions at the level that Anthony Spencer plays them…..there is the heart of the issue….IMO
if the cost is less than what Spencer is going to cost you wave Goodbye to Spencer, saying"don’t let the door hit you where the Good Lord Split you".
If it is more, then you franchise Spencer then work out a long term Deal….end of discussion.
I am Ironman!!! - February 22, 2012
I don't agree he's below average in passrushing.
ary201 - February 22, 2012
Well that is debatable
Not saying that you are wrong, but there are many different factors that go into it.
I am Ironman!!! - February 22, 2012
How do you think he got the "Almost Anthony" nickname?
Antonio S - February 22, 2012
didnt think of it that way, nice post
yehti - February 22, 2012 via mobile
And that's the flaw with this team.
In theory we should be able to replace Spencer on the cheap while improving the overall performance of the pass rush:
1) Draft Spencer’s replacement: Melvin Ingram, Courtney Upshaw (not sold on him), Nick Perry, Whitney Mercilus, Vinny Curry, Bruce Irvin, or Johanthan Massaquoi.
2) Draft a big nose tackle: Poe or Ta’amu
3) Insert Bruce Carter (if healthy) into the starting ILB spot opposite Lee, or draft Luke Kuechly to play opposite Lee. Either way, improving ILB#2 over Brooking/James rotation would imensely improve the defense, the LOLB could focus on rushing the passer, and the ILBs would be better fit to covering RBs and Tight Ends. No longer would the defense have to scheme around one of the ILBs failures in coverage, by dropping one of it’s pass rushers into coverage.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Damn, now that I think about it
Luke Kuechly makes a lot of sense at 14 if he’s BPA.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
told you Roh...
I wouldn’t ming this Offseason:
Mario for the DE position, and let Carter move to the LOLB position
Mario then becomes the 4-3 DE in the Defense regardless of the alignment and Carter is the LOLB regardless of Alignment….
With Carter still on his rookie contract the savings there offset the money spent on Williams, plus you effectively upgrade both positions…JMHO
you them draft Kuchley to play in between Carter and Lee…poof Best set of LB’s in the League….and with Hatcher, Ratlff and Williams on the line, you can drop Ware into coverage more to bring Pressure from different positions as they would tie up more blockers…. Imagine Carter on a edge rush unblocked abecause the Rt is tied up with Williams…..
Or Lee Kuchley in the A gaps….or Ware moving beside Williams, or Williams moving beside Ware(RDE)
or a “nascar package” of Ware Hatcher, Ratliff, Williams…..backed up with Kuchley Lee Carter…….
I am Ironman!!! - February 22, 2012
Way to go Socratic
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
haha
its cool
I am Ironman!!! - February 22, 2012
If this team takes Kuechly in the 1st
they might as well switch to a 43, with Lee playing ROLB, Kuechly playing MLB, and Carter playing LOLB. move Ware to RE, Rat/Spears/Hatcher/Lissy/Brent to a DT rotation, and draft Spencer’s replacement to play LE.
i still don’t see it happening. but i see what you’re getting at.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
agreed
to a point. I think that simply moving Ratliff to the DE spot would be good and letting Lissemore and Brent fight for the vacated spot would be good.
I am Ironman!!! - February 22, 2012
The Cowboys
base derfense is a hybrid 3-4 with an elephant. That IS, for all intents and purposes a 4-3. It just puts the D-line in offset positions. If people really want more people to rush the passer,then change the scheme. The question people need to ask themselves which is the best way to rush the passer? Do you want an equal opportunity situation for all of your front seven? Or do you get the best pass rusher in the history of the NFL in as many one on one match ups as you can? You can’t really do both effectively.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
The Steelers can
I’d rather Ware and the guy opposite him both get double digit sacks, that means teams can’t be forced to key on Ware at all times.
I love having DeMarcus Ware, but lets not act like that he has to be our entire pass rush. It would do him a tremendous service to find a someone who can play along side him and provide a consistent pass rush.
The Steelers have gotten 102 sacks from James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley since 2007. We should be able to find a guy who can be the Woodley to Ware’s Harrison.
This defense we’ve had puts it all one guy, and that’s why we get the results we get. At the end of the season, our sack totals are up there with the rest of the league leaders, however, the defense fails us every season.
Adding another guy to get sacks, doesn’t take away from Ware’s production, it only helps him.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
I understand
that “you would rather…..etc” but Rob Ryan seems to be satisfied with the status quo with the exception of the DBs. That is what he said isn’t it?
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
Satisfaction leads to complacency
Rob Ryan stated he expected big things from Spencer last year, and still we got more of the same.
Rob Ryan has to make his players feel good about themselves in the media so they’ll buy into him. If he starts publicly critquing Spencer he might lose him.
Rob Ryan knows his defense has to get better in pass rush and in defending the pass.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
I googled "hybrid elephant" and now I'm more confused than ever....
dunkman - February 22, 2012
LOL
You are a sick person.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
um half of that thing might be carrying leporsy
AustonianAggie - February 22, 2012
Mario isn't likely going anywhere
Texas will very likely pay Williams more than the Cowboys are willing to pay him when it is all said and done. Carter did play OLB in college, so that move could very well work (if he is 100% healthy from the ACL, and we all need to know OLB’s have to have speed at that position). Maybe Kuechly is available on the board at that time, but if DeCastro is ALSO available, I think he is the BPA. I would personally lean towards taking DeCastro over Kuechly, even though both positions are positions of need, I think DeCastro is as sure of a thing as there is, and I would lean towards going with him to sure up that O-line. Maybe DeCastro ultimately would be too expensive given the Cowboy’s cap situation, so it could be a tough one for the Cowboys come draft day, depending on what happens once FA begins.
jsrdc - February 22, 2012
Butler+Albright? Butler+ rookie?
maybe they should switch to a 4-3 if they want to keep Spencer but i still don’t think he’s worth $8.8 million at either position & no matter how you slice the pie he still stinks rushing the passer imo
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
Defending Anthony Spencer again? Really?
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
there is like, exactly nothing else to talk about
AustonianAggie - February 22, 2012
Fair enough I suppose but the homerism regarding Spencer is getting a bit nauseating.
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
They need to retire his name in the Ring of Honor
NFL Films should make a highlight reel of every play he “almost” made, and then praise him for setting the edge against the run. No one sets the edge against the run, like Anthony Spencer.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
The only player really comparable at a niche skill is Roy Williams and his ability to block as a WR.
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
You forgot Mart B
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
lol @ MartyB
a 2nd round pick that has zero pass catching ability lol. the biggest problem is when Bennetts in the game they know he isn’t a threat catching the ball so it doesn’t create any problems.
the 2 TE set doesn’t work well if one of the TEs cant catch & finding a replacement should be on the list of needs in the draft. the Green kid from Louisana Lafyette (sp) might be a good option if they get him in the 4th round.
also don’t forget Phillips is 2 years recovered from the acl injury & thats when the player returns to normal. he also does a lot better job catching the ball (remember the Saints game 2 yrs ago) & he was decent in the running game
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
agreed
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
He's improved...
Probably not as good as he needs to be for a long term extension, but I definitely recall a few games where he’s made some good plays.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
you meant Ring or Horror?
i didnt see any honor in almost Anthony
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
I don't think that's what Spencer's fans are saying...
The haters are saying he’s a “JAG,” and not only incorrectly using the word average but also wrong because Spencer’s been above average every year he starts. Just because he’s not an elite player doesn’t mean he’s bad or average, he’s better than average but not as good as elite. To be honest though, saying he belongs in the Ring is a lot closer to the truth than the people who say he’s just a scrub.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
And I agree with FiTAT, I could really care less what D-Ware, who happens to be my favorite player, thinks.
Those guys are about as biased as is possible. Ware is friends with Spencer, wants him to succeed, and has spent a lot of time with him. Of course he is not going to just come out and say he doesn’t want him back.
Regardless, the defense of Spencer on here is ridiculous. Literally all last season it was talked about how we would change our culture to one where average players aren’t rewarded with above-average pay, a strategy that had brought us a ton of terrible contracts and one playoff win. Now, when we have the opportunity to actually push forward with that strategy, I am actually seeing people contemplating franchising a guy who got about sack about every 100 times he rushed the passer. It’s moves like those by Jerry that have gotten us in this hole to begin with.
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
People are very resistent to change
Even when they clamour for it, once they sense it’s about to happen, they start trying to hold on what they’re familiar with.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
+1000
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012 via iPhone app
It's a little
more complex than that. The LB with the toughest job in the 3-4 that the Cowboys run is Spencer’s job. And it’s not even close. Ware’s job is to watch the C gap and rush the passer. When is the last time you saw Ware in coverage? Spencer has to re-route the TE, or, if the TE is a blocker, beat the TE AND the OT to rush the passer. If people want Spencer to be a better pass rusher, change the scheme. Rob Ryan has already made that decision and that is to free up Ware for one on ones, and let the chips fall where they may.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
Ware drops back in coverage
I specifically remember him breaking up a pass in the endzone on Thanksgiving.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Yes.
There was a game this season, I want to say it was the first one against the Eagles, where I noticed Ware in coverage quite a bit. I just attributed it to Reid doing a good job drawing up plays.
I don’t know.. Maybe I don’t pay close enough attention, but when I watch games I see Ware and Spencer doing a lot of the same things. Both play the run well, both do their jobs well enough in coverage.
Spencer clearly comes up short in pressure. That’s how I see it.
BigDumbFace - February 22, 2012
How many times do you think a team helps on Spencer compared to helping on Ware?
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
teams are content to leave Spencer 1 on 1
They know he won’t consistently get home.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
I don't want to come across as negative on Ware
because hes a future hall of fame player, and a guy whose been nothing but a stand up citizen. I’m happy that hes supporting his teammate and would expect nothing less.
But lets remember that in 2008, Ware was saying that he thought Tank Johnson would be a huge addition and was in line for a pro bowl year. We all know how that turned out.
I’m not sure at this point at what level I would bring spencer back. You’re talking about a guy who was irrelevant as a pass rusher last year, even in situations designed for him to rush the passer. Unless we plan on signing a 6 sack a year player along the DL, bringing Spencer back and playing him the same # of snaps means our pass rush will once again be all Demarcus Ware. Though I do think if Carter improves, his and Lee’s athleticism will allow Ryan to be more creative with blitzes, as we did not see any pass rush from our ilbs last year, so maybe we could improve a little.
If the team is intent on him being a stop gap while they work on the secondary and oline, then I guess I don’t have too much of a problem with him being franchised, considering its looking unlikely we’ll be able to bring in a legit pass rusher in FA given the lack of cap space compared to other teams. Of all the moves we’ve made, that would be far from the worst from a long term perspective. But its obviously not anything close to an ideal option.
foyesboys - February 22, 2012
I hate to
tell you but the design of the defense was to be all Demarcus Ware. He is the elephant in the 3-4 under that Rob Ryan is running as his base defense. An explanation of the 4-3 defense with an elephant (which is really the same as a 4-3) can be found here.http://www.fieldgulls.com/2011/5/31/2191847/the-pete-carroll-4-3-under-defense-part-i-an-introduction
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
that should be same
as a 3-4
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
Spencer has rushed the passer on 70% of passing plays this year
I don’t know the breakdown for how many plays were ran from the nickel D, but my guess is around 40-50%, and Spencer lined us as a DE on those plays and rushed the large majority of the time I’m sure.
He rushed 70% of all passing plays, and out of his sacks, only two went for more than 3 yards – the sacks on Grossman and Smith early in the year. Most of his sacks occured when the qb was flushed out of the pocket. He almost never gets to the qb in under 3 seconds.
And if Spencer is so limited by scheme, how come Rob Ryan (see quote above) was so certain that Spencer could produce in the pass rush?
foyesboys - February 22, 2012
This whole discussion is futile
People are just holding on to Spencer being a good tackler, and impregnable at setting the edge in run support.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Sign Spencer to a cap friendly $5-$6M...
Anything more and he’s gone. Personally, for the role Spencer fills…I believe Spencer is a good player. He certainly doesn’t have the sack total we’d all like but that’s not his role.
Spencer is a very good run stopper, is adequate in pass coverage, and can get good pressure on the QB if asked to. Good pressure…but not a lot of sacks.
I subscribe to the thought that Spencer isn’t going to be easily replaced. Ain’t happening.
Pasipple - February 22, 2012
Cowboys fans once thought
1) Sticking in an unknown Tony Romo would be a bad idea until they finally saw him make plays in a live game.
2) Sticking Miles Austin into the starting lineup ahead of Roy Williams would hurt our run blocking…Ahahahahahahaha.
3) Cutting Patrick Crayton in favor of Dez Bryant would be a bad thing…1,400 yards and 17 TDs thru two seasons later, are we still missing him?
4) Cutting Flozell Adams and Marc Colombo were bad ideas. Now most loves the thought of switching Tyron Smith to LT and Doug Free to RT.
5) Drafting Sean Lee was a bad idea, because we still had Bradie James and Keith Brooking. 2 seasons later, people love Sean Lee.
6) Drafting DeMarco Murray was a bad idea. 800+ yards later, he’s awesome.
Cowboys fans can be a fickle bunch.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Those examples
are really not close to being the same as the Spencer situation. This is much more like the Marion Barber situation where Jerry had to sign Barber to a long term deal because he simply had no one else. And who said drafting Murray was a bad idea?
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
Read The Comments from The Draft Day Thread for Rds 2 and 3
BTB was ready to Occupy Valley Ranch over the DeMarco Murray pick,
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Well, I
never had a problem with the pick. But I bet it was because someone’s “Pet Cat” wasn’t picked.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
alot of someones pet cats, people were going crazy.... myself included.
yehti - February 22, 2012 via mobile
No, it was because
RB seemed set and so many other positions (CB, S, more o-line) seemed like much greater issues.
dunkman - February 22, 2012
actually I thought playing Romo at that time was a very good idea
Terry - February 22, 2012
I did too
but I don’t remember there being universal aggrement.
People felt playing Romo might signal waiving the flag on the 2006 season, not just Cowboys fans, but fans and media thought that.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Bledsoe was a INT machine though
at the time people just wanted someone different.
yehti - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Bledsoe was a statue as well
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Bledsoe
started locking onto one receiver and couldn’t get back to making his reads. Not sure why, but looked just like Sanchez out there.
dunkman - February 22, 2012
It was ugly
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
yah it was, felt bad for him though
yehti - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Bledsoe played quite well in 2006
in 2007, I remember there were rumors of a back injury. He was BAD in the Jacksonville game, and his problems never really went away. He was a slow qb to begin with, but he pretty much become a total statue in 2007.
Replacing Bledsoe with Romo was an easy call.
foyesboys - February 22, 2012
You mean 2005 and 2006
That Giants game in the Meadowlands back in 2005 is when the team should have realized Bledsoe might be shot.
It was an easy call that took forever to make. That team struggled around .500 in 2006 because someone was still married to Bledsoe being the QB and couldn’t let it go. It was either Parcells or Jerry.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
+1, We had a lot of room for error with that decision.
I was all for Miles, luckily there was an injury if not Miles probably wouldn’t be on the team. Back then the Cowboy’s weren’t into playing these guys early. I hope that has changed. Practice is a good place to evaluate a player, but nothing simulates live game action.
I wish they would have played Butler more last season that way they would have more information to assess the situation with Spencer, especially knowing Spencers contract was expiring. At some point you have to give these guys some playing time and see what you have with them and ideally before the need arises.
DCB* - February 22, 2012
agreed
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Most of the people who thought those were the TFAGs that want Spencer gone.
Or they just hated vets that weren’t producing and thought any young rookie would be an improvement and were accidentally correct. I didn’t like the idea of Romo initially, because holy crap the odds were insane. Miles Austin I was unsure of because again UDFAs usually aren’t very good…there’s a reason why teams pass them over seven times, though once the conversation was starting him OVER Roy Williams I was okay with it. Cutting Crayton for Bryant was a no brainer, Colombo should have been cut during the season. Flo? Ehhh, thought he had another year left and was unsure about the RT spot (I was right on the second, kinda right about the first) but understood that at anyrate he was on his last legs and was okay with him leaving. Sean Lee? The more I learned about him the more I liked…and I loved Murray dude was awesome at OU and Felix had injury issues and Choice had terribleness issues so it was obvious to me that they needed another RB.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
Anybody wanna take a stab at what Mark Anderson would cost?
Seems the Patriots are content with letting him walk. Dont think he’s an every down guy playing OLB in the 3-4, but the guy can straight up get to the quarterback. 10 sacks last year I think. It would be nice to have another rusher, Spencer or no Spencer, draft pick or no draft pick.
Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) - February 22, 2012
But if Anderson is so good then why would the Patriots let him walk?
hitman90 - February 22, 2012
Because they let guys walk all the time. Thats what they do.
He’s been a situational rusher his whole career, but he’s among the best at it.
Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) - February 22, 2012
Problem with our pass rush isn't necessarily Spencer,
It’s our lack of interior rush (10 sacks from the D-line and often offered a pocket that the opposing QB could step into) and poor backfield play. That being said I would like to see Spencer on the team next year just not at the Franchise tender and other than being franchised IMO he will be playing elsewhere.
For $8.8 there are a variety of players on the market that can help us more IMO.
DCB* - February 22, 2012
If you are
seventh in the NFL in sacks, your pass rush isn’t your problem. That’s almost 3 a game and that doesn’t count QB throwaways, QB runs, passes deflected at the line of scrimmage, etc. When your pass defense in total ends up ranked #23 in the NFL and you come up with 15 picks all year, I think I would look elsewhere for my defensive improvement. Secondary anyone?
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
It wouldn't hurt
To fix both the secondary and the pass rush now would it? All it requires is using 4 draft picks: 2 in the secondary (1 CB, 1 S), and 2 front 7 (pass rusher, DT/DE).
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
agreed,
i have said as much elsewhere. Just pointing out that Spencer isn’t the problem with pass rush. At the same time if we were going to spend 8.8 mil on 1 player that there are other players/positions that i would rather see that money be spent on. CB i would point out as one area we should spend that on as Jenkins will be a FA next year. There is more than one solution for our situation. I am anxious to see how the Cowboys handle FA this year which would give us an indication of how we should look at the draft.
DCB* - February 22, 2012 via Android app
It's not an either or proposition. The pass rush problem is due to both the interior pass rush AND Spencer.
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
Why is
being tied for 7th in the NFL in sacks a “problem with the pass rush?”
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
Easy. Demarcus Ware is responsible for a higher percentage of Dallas' sacks
than any other player in the entire NFL. 19.5 out of 42 is just under 50 percent of all Dallas sacks. What does that stat tell you about our pass rush? It tells you that the only reason Dallas’ pass rush is top-10 is because of Demarcus Ware. The players around him are below average pass rushers with maybe the exception of Hatcher and Ratliff.
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
Why is it people fail to grasp this?
We can’t keep sustaning this rate of sack of accumulation.
Ware needs help so he can be effective for a longer portion of his career. It would make him even better to place a 10+ sack guy opposite him.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
"People"
are not failing to grasp anything. YOU are failing to grasp the fact that this is the way the defense was designed. Ask yourself an easy question. If this was all about sacks why extend Spears to a long term contract? He doesn’t get any sacks but he occupies two blockers and plays the run. That is his job in the 3-4. You read what Ware said above about Spencer. They (Spears and Spencer) are both players doing their jobs as out lined by D-coordinator.
Try one more thing for me. Put the Jets secondary behind the Cowboys front as it is and how do you think the Cowboys would do?
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
LOL
1) Spencer’s job isn’t to occupy blockers. He rushes the passer around 70% of the time.
2) Don’t believe everything you hear/read. Ware is being a good teammate taking up for Spencer. He knows if the team keeps Spencer, that they need him to be invested and feel like he’s important. He doesn’t want a teammate whose mentally checked out before the 2012 season starts. It was the right thing to do.
3) The only player in the Jets secondary worth a damn as of now is Revis. I used to like Cromartie, but he can’t tackle, and can’t cover, all he does is gamble for picks. And their safeties please! Jim Leonhard and Eric Smith are basically the same as Elam and Sensabaugh, nothing special.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
I didn't say
Spencer’s job was to occupy blockers. I said he was doing his job. I notice you didn’t talk about Spears and resigning him. As for the Jets, Cromartie is 6th in passes completed against in the entire NFL at 46%. He covers just fine as in top ten fine. I was really talking about corners and including Kyle Wilson at nickel. Having said that compare that to our group of CBs completion percentages.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
Spears is a 34DE
His job is to occupy blockers for the OLBs, play the run, and be a secondary pass rusher. Bringing up Spears is irrelevent for this discussion, as the whole debate is about Spencer. The Cowboys traded up to take Spencer for pass rush, not for his ability to set the edge in run support.
As far as Cromartie is concerned, I was wrong about his numbers last year I guess. My bad. I will say, I wanted the Cowboys to draft him in 06, and trade for him in 2010 when apparently the Chargers approached the Boys about a trade involving him and Choice. Given his numbers, he’d be an upgrade over an aging Newman. But it’s moot, he’s not a free agent.
I wouldn’t know who was better between Kyle Wilson and Orlando Scandrick, as I don’t have the stats readily available.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
We extended Spears because we are a mediocre franchise that makes mediocre decisions.
And to suggest that Rob Ryan is actively preventing Spencer from doing better rushing the passer by sending him on 70% of QB dropbacks is one of the most ludicrous things I have read on here. Congratulations for that.
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
Well congrats to you for not understanding advanced metrics
Spencer was 8th in pass rushing snaps and 10th in total pressures, the nine guys he was behind?
Cameron Wake, DeMarcus Ware, Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews, Brian Orapko, Ryan Kerrigan, Tamba Hali, Ahmad Brooks, and Tamba Hali. A lot of people say Brooks is better, which I disagree with. Spencer is better against the run and had a higher PRP, not to mention Brooks had Justin Smith, a guy who I think should have been in the DPoY contest. Is Spencer worthy of the franchise tag? I don’t think so with this team’s cap situation. Is he worthy of extension? Yes, I think so, I think he’s worth a 3/17-20 deal with 10M guaranteed.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
Does anyone else find it ironic that this cat is saying C729 doesn’t understand advanced metrics.
I bet you wear the juice too.
Fan in Thick and Thin - February 23, 2012
Did you take stupid pills or something Roh?
C’mon you’re better than this. Most the defenses that were better than (or as good as) Dallas at getting sacks are built around one guy, or primarily one guy. The Eagles had Babin and Cole (I completely agree if one of those kind of guys are available that you get them over Spencer, problem is, they’re not), the Vikings had Allen, the Giants had JPP, Baltimore had T-Sizzle, Houston had Connor Barwin and JJ Watt. The only defense that had a few sacks here and a few sacks there were the Bengals. THAT is the type of production that isn’t sustainable. Besides a lot of those teams ahead of Dallas got a few coverage sacks, how many of those did Dallas get? You guys are being complete idiots if you think that A.) improving the secondary won’t lead to more sacks B.) That the pass rush is anything close to the biggest problem, or C.) that basing the pass rush around DeMarcus Ware is a bad idea.
Defenses that get a lot of sacks are usually based around one elite pass rusher. It’s sustainable as long as Ware is healthy and still playing, but if Ware gets hurt or regresses they’re screwed regardless.
Omar Little - February 23, 2012
It tells me
that it is the design of the Rob Ryan 3-4 under “elephant” defense. The whole idea of the defense is to have the 4-5 blockers on the offense block three of our guys. The players “around him” i.e., NT and two DEs are there to keep OGs and OTs off of our linebackers and stop the run. Ware is the elephant and lines up in different areas depending upon the situation. He is the best sack artist in the NFL which is why they use this type of defense.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
Then why did Anthony Spencer rush the passer on 70% of dropbacks?
Rob Ryan didn’t want him to get there?
Creasy729 - February 22, 2012
How many of those were from the OLB position
though Creasy?
Remember Spencer becomes the DE in the Cowboys “Nickel Formation”
How many sacks do LDE’s get a year? not that many…..
I am Ironman!!! - February 23, 2012
I agree it's a combination including coverage,
so I am not going to single a player out saying that our lack is there.
DCB* - February 22, 2012
Average Anthony..
As long as we continue to sign average players we can never hope to achieve greatness. Let him walk and let’s spend that 8 mill on a real player or two.
Earn your star - February 22, 2012
I just love some of the logic
“Spencer knows the defense, we can’t just replace him.”
“Elam knows Ryan’s defense, he should come back and teach it.”
“We should sign Mike Adams in FA, he’s the 23rd best safety in the NFL, and he knows Ryan’s system!”
Great, while we’re at it, we should make a trade with the Jets for Vladimir Ducasse and his 13 wonderlic score because afterall, he knows Callahan’s blocking schemes and he can teach it to Doug Free and Tyron Smith!
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
haha funny
yehti - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Pure OLB vs DE
I think some of the concern comes from the thought that they’re asking for trouble if they draft a guy who played DE in college and expect him to instantly transition to OLB. Maybe better to draft a true OLB who can step right in even if it means passing on the Curry/Irvin types who might have the higher ceiling as a pure rush guy?
DB23 - February 22, 2012 via mobile
For a Guy who leads his position in TFL and FF's
what’s the problem?
Lil J - February 22, 2012
I could not have said it better.
If we can keep him for four years @ 5-6 mil a year, why not? He’s finishing his prime years.
BlueNSilverBlood - February 22, 2012
If we put the franchise tag on him
We won’t sign him to a 5 year $30 million deal. It would be a 1 year $8.8 million deal effectively limiting our ability to make a move in free agency to improve this team.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
That is
not true. Logan Mankins had a 10mil tag put on him last year and then signed a long term deal shortly therafter that had a 4.8 mil cap hit in 2011. You are not committed to the tag number if a long term deal is negotiated.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
IF a long term deal is negotiated
I don’t think Spencer wants to be here. He’s not going to want a long term deal with Dallas.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
If that is
your logic, he won’t take the tag either. He will just leave and then people like you will be moaning about the next guy who only gets 5-6 sacks on the strong side.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
that's a risk I'm willing to take
Rob Ryan wants his OLBs to get after the QB. Last I checked, Ware wasn’t our only OLB.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
even at $5 million the pass rush still sucks the next 4 or 5 years lol
DCNation73 - February 22, 2012
Ha,
What is the cost to really upgrade from him, though? That is all I’m saying. We could upgrade, Spence is not perfect, but personally, I would prioritize other positions first.
I also believe that if we stouten our interior line, Spence gets 7-8 sacks, no prob.
I’ve said all of this thirty times, though.
BlueNSilverBlood - February 22, 2012
You believing it to be true and saying it over 30 times
Doesn’t make it true.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
1 Pass Defended, 0 Interceptions
Anthony Spencer’s stat line.
He does nothing, he’s a JAG.
Blue Eyed Devil - February 22, 2012
Compared
to all SOLBS, first in tackles, first in tackles for loss, first in fumbles forced, 2nd in QB hits and 5th in sacks. So just who are all of these FA SOLBs that are better?
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
No one is advocating replacing him in FA
People who want him gone want to draft his replacement somewhere between rounds 1-3.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
And still
are you sure you can get a rookie that can put up those kinds of numbers, even 2-3 years down the road? How far back should the team be willing to step to replace Anthony?
True, the cost/benefits argument on his salary is a hard one to work out, but sometimes it seems that he has been run out of town for doing the job the team asked him to do, just because he is not a mirror image of DWare.
Tom Ryle - February 22, 2012
Tom it's not about him failing to be a 20 sack guy
It’s about Spencer’s ceiling being only a 6 sack guy. You can’t just can’t tag that guy at $8.8 million.
On most plays Spencer is rushing the QB along with Ware. Ware gets double and triple teamed, and still gets 19 sacks, he’s a beast.
My disatisfaction with Spencer is the fact he’s most left in one on one situations with a right tackle. Despite having such a favorable matchup, Spencer only gets home to sack the QB 6 times. If this team got an extra 3-5 sacks from Spencer per season, that’s less pressure on Ware every game. Team’s wouldn’t be forced to key on Ware solely, and Ware wouldn’t be gassed at the end of games.
How far back should this team go? I’d like to think that a rotation of Butler, Albright, and a Rookie could step in in 2012, and at least match Spencer’s 2011 production, and maybe put up better numbers. Then by 2013, the Rook should be able to be the starter opposite Ware, and still, continue to work in Butler.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Roh, you know I love and respect you
But you are wrong when it comes to Spencer.
Trust me when I tell you in this scheme he is a stud. There are a lot of other teams that will take him. Fix the secondary and he is a tearing it up.
I have 3 clients in the seconday, I know what they do. I will loose 1 or 2 clients this year with the Boys. That happens. Tht is where the problem is along with ILB’s.
Get rid of Spencer, It will be a shit storm over on that side.
Birddog26 - February 22, 2012
I’m bookmarking this page and comment.
I hope hope hope we get a w/o Spencer test case.
Fan in Thick and Thin - February 23, 2012
How bad ideas get started and supported......
once signed Spencer has no trade value. The Cowboy overevaluation process in action.
Best hope is Spencer signs for 9 million somewhere else and the cowboys net a compensation pick.
Ware should be shopped. Great player, lousy lockerroom and team leader. Part of the status quo, no progress culture.
Cwon1 - February 22, 2012
how much paint did you huff today
Nick Castillo - February 22, 2012
Oh great. This guy.
TARHEEL PAUL - February 22, 2012
Past peak.....
a Cowboy special interest.
Homer fans should get a clue about why the team bites.
Cwon1 - February 22, 2012
I hate the off season.
I really love the draft and when free agency starts but that dead time leading up to it just kills me. That is all.
TARHEEL PAUL - February 22, 2012
+10000,
and I can’t wait to see how they handle free agency and shed a little light on what to look for in the draft.
DCB* - February 22, 2012
I think the choice is down to franchising him or seeing what he is offered.
Other teams are interested – and they are using the negative comments about Spencer in the media and places like here as part of their argument for him to sign with them.
He is seen as a better player by other teams than we see him here. He is probably going to be playing somewhere else next year, and that is not necessarily a good thing. If the team winds up with less production from his replacement, well, then I guess we might learn to be careful of what we wish for.
Tom Ryle - February 22, 2012
Tom, I get what you're saying
But it’s not just about next season. It’s about getting better for subsequent seasons as well. Sure maybe Spencer’s replacements don’t make an immediate improvement next year, but if they do in subsequent seasons, then letting him go was definitely worth it. Spencer’s plateaued as a player, and this team can’t afford to just be all in for 2012, that type of short term thinking put Jerry in this endless mess we’re constantly in.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
You do not
get rid of good young players because you think the grass is greener somewhere else. Spencer deserves a fair contract offer. If you want more sacks from other players, change the scheme.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
Like jevans said above.
Why all the hate for someone who is statistically one of the best at his job in the league?Something is badly skewed here. I am concerned it is fan/media perception.
Tom Ryle - February 22, 2012
Tom, that is
exactly what it is. People see that Ware got 20 sacks and everyone immediately says “What’s Spencer doing”. Never mind the defensive scheme he is asked to play in. If Spencer sucked as bad as people here are saying why didn’t they just cut him? The fact that this is even being discussed when the Cowboys were ranked seventh in the league in sacks boggles the mind.
jevans1729 - February 22, 2012
What this is about
This is about Anthony Spencer. The team didn’t trade up into the first rd in 2006 to get a guy who averages 6 sacks a year as a starting 34OLB. If this team thought that was his ceiling, then they could have just taken him in the second round, as he would’ve been there at #36 along with LaMarr Woodley.
Do you realize DeMarcus Ware got 46% of the team’s 42 sacks last season. Take him off the team, and the rest of the guys only produce 23. It’s not the system, as Spencer rushes the passer over 70% of the time. He just doesn’t get home as much as Ware, despite the fact teams leave Spencer one on one with a right tackle; Spencer lacks the explosion and closing speed to make the play consistently, hence “Almost Anthony.”
This isn’t about hating Anthony Spencer. I just happen to be amongst the group of fans who believe this team can do better than Spencer at LOLB.
Rohpuri - February 22, 2012 via mobile
My blood is starting to boil after today's Stephen Jones comments
No wonder this team is 8-8. Quotes like this greatly dim the faith I’ve had in Stephen Jones being a sober decision-maker.
Blue Eyed Devil - February 22, 2012
Don't read too much into this, blue eyed devil
Stephen, like Jerrah, tends to say what he thinks is appropriate at the time. This in no way means that Spencer will be tagged, although it certainly can happen. I, too, don’t want Spencer back for various reasons, but a big reason being the $ they have to spend placing a franchise tag on him. I think there are better options out there for less $, so I hope that the Cowboys do let him walk. Time will tell.
jsrdc - February 22, 2012
I hope you are right jsrdc
Blue Eyed Devil - February 22, 2012
Playing Avila advocate here
What if we let Spencer go and his replacement gets 10 sacks on the year but can’t cover on passing downs and can’t stop the run? Instead of throwing at us, teams will just run on us all day. Making our defense get tired and keeping our offense off the field. If Spencer is doing what he’s supposed to do, you don’t give up on that. You improve other areas of the rush (NT & DL). Improve those areas and Spencer will benefit with more sacks and still be able to cover the pass and stop the run.
As for franchising him, I doubt that’s what they do unless they know or expect more money in the cap next season to be able to offer him a good deal. Otherwise you offer him his worth now and save those extra 2 mil for other players. Plus I think SJ has contracts in mind that he can restructure which will increase the salary cap over $20 mil. JJ said he worked a miracle last year, so I know SJ can get very creative.
Frankster_1 - February 22, 2012 via mobile
*devils advocate*
Frankster_1 - February 22, 2012 via mobile
I don't think Spencer
is as bad as people say he is, but I certainly don’t think he should be paid like he is a top OLB. I would rather roll with Butler and a rookie like Curry, Perry, Upshaw or Ingram, and put that 8 mil toward Carr + OG + a Center.
BrickTop - February 22, 2012 via mobile
Frankster, nicely done, but I still don't think Spencer is worth 9 mil
If there is 20 Mil that eventually materializes under the cap for the Cowboys, Spencer’s franchise tag eats up roughly half of that. IF (and that is a big if) Spencer and the Cowboys work out a long term deal, that obviously works well for both sides. I just don’t see that happening (mostly on the side of the Cowboys because Spencer just hasn’t produced the way he was expected to with the pass rush) and Spencer may certainly not like any long term offer the Cowboys give him. If both sides aren’t able to work it out for a long term deal, do you then franchise him, or do you let him walk? I agree in that if he stays, you improve the defense around him, including depth at NT. I am hearing Lissemore will be taking more snaps at NT, possibly becoming the starter there, and Ratliff would then move to DE. With that said, they would still need another DT for depth there, but really the secondary is (and has been) the main issue, IMO. You still need to get pressure on the QB, and Spencer just doesn’t seem to be able to get that done on the left side.
With a stronger secondary, that certainly helps the D-line’s sack totals. I only hope RR can get all these guys on track with his system during a full off-season, and maybe Spencer meets or exceeds expectations at OLB if he stays. I just think if they don’t sign him to a long term contract, they need to let him walk, because there are too many needs at other positions that the 9 million can help to fill (and 9 mil for one year paid to an OLB who tackles well and covers out of the backfield is quite a bit of $, IMO).
Every team has a weakness. The secondary has been the Cowboy’s weakness for far too long. The question becomes is Spencer and his lack of QB pressure (but good run stopping ability) worth letting him go if another able and willing FA or OLB is brought in to replace him? I say definitely yes. Spencer just repeatedly seems unable to beat lineman to get to the QB. Maybe RR can fix that technique-wise, and get him to repeatedly beat lineman with better technique and better conditioning as well. I don’t personally want to give him that chance, but that is just me. Time will tell, but I still think the 9 mil can be better spent on other weak areas.
jsrdc - February 22, 2012
I agree about the 9 mil.
But without knowing whether he didn’t get pressure because the qb stepped up in the pocket or if he just couldn’t beat his man. I didn’t watch the games that closely and a review of the season would need to be done to fin out. But I think I trust RR’s and Ware’s opinions if they think he’s an important part. However, I do agree that franchising him would be overpaying and taking money from other needed spots. Plus franchising him without the intent to sign him longterm could backfire with him not playing all out.
Frankster_1 - February 22, 2012 via mobile
The story has been that Spencer can't routinely beat lineman
From what I have been reading, Spencer’s issue in getting to the QB has been his inability to basically not be able to beat lineman to get to the QB. Ware obviously can, and excels at it. Can Spencer’s technique be tweaked? I sure hope so if they keep him. I agree with you regarding franchising him without the intent to sign him long term could backfire with him not playing all out, but that really would be shooting himself in the foot. With a franchise tag, it is a basically a job interview for the following season. If he plays well, he gets the option to stay in Dallas with the team offering him a long term contract, or he can choose to go elsewhere to cash in with another team for a potentially even larger contract. I just hope that whatever the Cowboys do, they do it with some clear thinking and don’t overpay any individual players with the cap situation the way it is. We all know the Cowboys have overpaid players in the past, and hopefully they utilize more of a shrewd approach to this year’s roster and cap situation.
jsrdc - February 23, 2012
Well, we did have a new DC installing a new system without the benefit of a full set of training camps.
Could be the entire D suffered because of that. That didn’t seem to hold for the 49ers though, as their D got much better.
CowboyMan - February 22, 2012
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