http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2012/02/considering-mario-williams-in-dallas.html
another topic he raised
Then the counter might be, "Bob, can't we just switch back to a 4-3, then?"
Sure. But then, I need to change all sorts of things that I have already done to this defense. I will need to release a bunch of DEs like Marcus Spears and Kenyon Coleman, as they don't fit my new scheme. I need to find linebackers. Spencer is gone, Bradie James and Keith Brooking don't run well enough anymore, and I am not sure what Bruce Carter can do, but I do know he was drafted with the 3-4 in mind. Chicago has a great 4-3 front, but it works because they have two exceptional linebackers who can do wonderful things from the "Mic" and the "Will" positions. Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs have been running sideline to sideline for years at All-Pro levels in that scheme. I think Sean Lee could handle Briggs' role on a reasonable level, but I am not sure who my 260-pound beast like Urlacher would be in the middle. So, to accommodate Mario Williams, I need to open up several new holes that might make this counterproductive on top of a $100 million deal for your new 4-3 end opposite Ware. Oh, and I am not sure my coaching staff believes in a 4-3 at all.
Other than the MLB I don't know what the problem is here. Brooking and Bradie James are done so we have to replace them anyway. Coleman isn't young and he can't pass rush so he could be replaced , Spears is just a run stopper.
Switching over to the 4-3 might the Cowboys to get rid of marginal players , but isn't that what you want to do anyway?
wouldn't you want to upgrade them anyway on a defense where the pass rush is DeMarcus Ware against the league?
Other than the MLB I don’t know what the problem is here. Brooking and Bradie James are done so we have to replace them anyway. Coleman isn’t young and he can’t pass rush so he could be replaced , Spears is just a run stopper.
Switching over to the 4-3 might force the Cowboys to get rid of marginal players , but isn’t that what you want to do anyway?
wouldn’t you want to upgrade them anyway on a defense where the pass rush is DeMarcus Ware against the league?
and I don’t see why Mario Williams could not play 3-4 end. Since JJ Watt does it pretty well.
Jonathan Stern - February 16, 2012
How many different ways
Can I say this to you?
Mario Williams is either a 34 OLB or a 43 DE, which would be the primary pass rushing position on which ever team he plays for.
A 34 DE is the equivalent of a 43 DT. You’re basically asking Mario Williams to play inside.
He won’t do it, and won’t go to a team that asks him to do this. He’s a pass rusher first and foremost. He’ll either play Spencer’s position, essentially becoming our LaMarr Woodley. Or he’ll play Tuck/Osi’s position if we switch to the 43.
Canty played 34 DE for us, now he plays defensive tackle in the Giants 43 defense.
Cullen Jenkins was a 34 DE, now he plays 43 DT for the Eagles.
Rohpuri - February 16, 2012 via mobile
There is no point in arguing with him.
Its litterally like banging your head against a wall. Just have to accept that he likes his own little world and nothing is going to happen there
Proxy406 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Some people are ok with a DeMarcus Ware against the league pass rush. We ought to just accept it. I wonder how far the Cowboys are going to go with it.
Jonathan Stern - February 17, 2012
actually Williams could play DE in a 3-4
When he played 3-4 LB in houston he was called a elephant LB..
Williams already play with his hands on the ground as a 4-3 DE so moving him inside aganist slower guards may pay off..
Williams is listed as 6’6 283
JJ Watt is listed as 6’5 288
Sean Lissemore is listed as 6’4 306
D Ware is listed as 6’4 260
One of the most havoc wercking DE only have a 5lb gain on Williams..
I see what you are saying stern.. Williams can play 3-4 DE for the cowboys on base defense and when we go to nickel or known pass situations you can rush Williams as a 3-4 olb..
Players today can play in any system in todays NFL id they get it. We had tank johnson play NT for us in 08 and 07 although he came out of a 4-3 defense..
Williams has the natural ability to rush the passer regardless what postion he plays..
You know what Stern me and a friend was talking about this the other day..
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
a 3-4 DE is a 4-3 DT spread further wide
A 43 DE and 34 DE are two different positions.
A 43 DE is an edge rusher like a 34 OLB.
A 43 DT is an interior pass rusher/run stuffer like a 34 DE.
When Mario Williams lines up on defense, either as 43 DE or 34 OLB, he’s coming off the edge.
Rohpuri - February 16, 2012 via mobile
@Rohpuri
Thankyou.
People just don’t get the difference, they think “Oh well Mario is a 4-3 DE if we get him he can play still play 3-4 DE….” and then they pull some out irrelevant measurables.
Then I love the people who think Ware would play as 4-3 linebacker…..
I guess the 3-4 has been around for so long people just don’t understand the differences.
bitterlyhonest - February 16, 2012
von miller does.. and they rush him off the edge...
It doesnt matrer what system these guys play in if they have ability let it flourish..
Williams has the size to play DE who cares about system.. hes natural gifted regardless
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
von miller was a natural pure 3-4 olb who went to a 4-3 team
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Guess again
He’s listed an outside linebacker for the Denver Broncos
Rohpuri - February 16, 2012
a 4-3 linebacker
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
he's a 34 OLB.
34 OLB rush off the edge like a 43 DE…
43 OLB is tagged with covering tight ends and running backs in the passing game running from sideline to sideline. This what 34 ILBs have to do (Sean Lee and Bruce Carter).
You were saying
Rohpuri - February 17, 2012 via mobile
completely backwards
Von Miller was 4-3 DE who moved to 3-4 OLB with a 3-4 team. People were concerned whether or not he could make the move and he did a fine job.
bitterlyhonest - February 17, 2012
No Von Miller was a pure 34 LB coming out of college who went to a 43 team
lostar2009 - February 17, 2012
you can't be more wrong
von miller is playing ina 4-3, and yeah he’s a naturally 3-4 OLB i would love him in Dallas and he too
ratware - February 17, 2012
a 4-3 linebacker
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
they rush him off the edge like ware at times
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Both Ware and Miller play 34 OLB
Rohpuri - February 17, 2012 via mobile
Denver runs a 4-3, they do use 3-4 looks at times, but its a base 4-3
With Miller playing OLB, they will flex him to the line to rush.
Proxy406 - February 17, 2012
Bruce Smith played 3-4 end.
If you defensive cordinator is any good he could scheme Mario Williams in.
Randy White lined up at DT NT DE MLB OLB at different times in career.
Mario Wiliams is a big time talent. Better than any DE or LB in this draft.
The Cowboys pass rush is DeMarcus Ware versus the league , I don’t know why so many people on this board are ok with it.
Jonathan Stern - February 17, 2012
Johnathan
Bruce Smith was 34DE, and would have played DT in a 43 scheme…just like Waren Sapp played 43 DT and would have played DE in a 34 scheme.
I’m not opposed to signing Mario Williams. I’m opposed to signing him with the idea who no longer rushes the passer off the edge. If we sign him, we’re bringing him in with the idea to replace Anthony Spencer.
Furthermore, Mario Williams will never go for playing 34 DE. If he signs with a 3-4 team, he will play OLB. Most likely, he’ll sign with Houston and play OLB for them, or sign with a 4-3 team and play DE for them.
Rohpuri - February 17, 2012 via mobile
with all due respect:
Bruce Smith was 6-3 – 260 to 273. No way was he goes inside
Jonathan Stern - February 17, 2012
That would be fine. Though I don’t see why the Cowboys could not play him both at LB and 3-4 end. actually .
If the Cowboys need multiple pass rush players Right now they only have one.
Jonathan Stern - February 17, 2012
THE Elephant LB is labled where he lines up, not beacuse he's large.
Its a throw back term, it refers to the alignment, it means they were working in more of a 4-3 Flex, very similar to what Dallas runs with Demarcus ware, where is you were to take a snap shot of our front 3/4 right before the snap you would see Ware almost parallel to the line.
He played in the same pin your ears back 3-4/ 4-3 flex hybrid defense.
The problem is he was utilized their because of his deficiencies out side of pass rushing.
Thats part of the problem with having 2 demarcus wares, you are essentially rushing 5 every single play, unless you want a DE or NT dropping back into zone coverage; or having one of them in a strict contain role.
Either way, you are essentially playing a man down in coverage. Think Eli wag good at dissecting the defense before? He’d have a field day with that.
Proxy406 - February 16, 2012
its a linebacker DE hybrid..
So it does deal with size..
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
here is a article here
Where they talk about Willis for the pats playing. Elephant lb
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Pats-in-hunt-for-elephant-78392002
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
Teams don’t rush 5?
I will say it again.
I don’t know why the Cowboys could not use both Mario Williams and Ware and LBs sure they aren’t going to cover people but many 3-4 OLBs can’t cover very well. And I do know that the 1996 Carolina Panthers got 14.5 and 13.5 sacks from theri OLBs.
I do know that the Cowboys defense has sucked for the last two seasons. Doing things the way that they have been doing doesn’t work.
Jonathan Stern - February 17, 2012
He has a field day knowing that the only pass rush threat the Cowboys have is DeMarcus Ware.
The Giants have multiple pass rush threats , I would be interested in knowing why you think it is okay if we don’t. Or why we ought not to to fix this or why we can’t fix this.
Jimmy Johnson had Haley , Tolbert and Jeffcoat to pressure QBs.
Landry had Martin , Jones , White and Henderson to pressure QBs.
Your views are anti – common sense and fly in the face of football history.
The Patriots run a 3-4 / 4-3 hybrid.
A good defensive coordinator could scheme in both Ware and Williams.
Besides it is unlikely that Ware and Williams would be on the field for every defensive snap.
Jonathan Stern - February 17, 2012
Actually I want to make a few points
A ) JJ Watt plays 3-4 DE Bruce Smith played 3-4 DE
B) So what if the Cowboys were to move to the 4-3. Brade James , Brooking and Coleman are close to done anyway they don’t fit it with the Cowboys long term plans . So I don’t know the problem w/ switching to the 4-3 anyway..
C) I don’t know why the Cowboys could not use both Mario Williams and Ware and LBs sure they aren’t going to cover people but many 3-4 OLBs can’t cover very well. And I do know that the 1996 Carolina Panthers got 14.5 and 13.5 sacks from theri OLBs.
I do know that the Cowboys defense has sucked for the last two seasons. Doing things the way that they have been doing doesn’t work.
Jonathan Stern - February 17, 2012
lol ive been screaming this at the top of my lungs for months now.....
i loose my mind every time i read mario’s name mentioned here loil ……
the sisemec burst from my mind exploding could short out all kinds of gadgets lol
IRONRAVEN - February 19, 2012
Well which 4-3 base scheme do you suggest we run?
Cover-2
Tampa-2
4-3 Under
Wide 9
It is one thing to say switch. But what base scheme are you going to use in the 4-3 alignment. That is what the media and fans who bring this up have no idea how to answer.
Birddog26 - February 16, 2012
What's the difference between a Tampa 2 and a Cover 2?
Don’t both involve 1 in-the box safety, 2 covers playing off the line, and a middle line backer covering the deep middle of the field with two outside LBs going side line to sideline?
Rohpuri - February 16, 2012
2 covers=2 corners
Rohpuri - February 16, 2012
Cover 2 drops 2 safties deep to cover over the top of the 2 corners
The safties play just outside the hashmarks. In a Tampa -2 you also drop the middle linebacker deep with the safeties and he plays the middle and allows the safeties to play wider on the coverage. The 2 different schemes can completely change what you need in your LB’s.
Birddog26 - February 16, 2012
that's right
I’m so used to seeing the Bears, Colts, Bucs, and U$C that I forgot they all ran/run a variation of Monty Kiffin’s Tampa 2
Rohpuri - February 16, 2012
wide 9..
Because we would have the Lbs to cover the DEs and roam the field.. Also by drafting Kuechty ( if i spelled him right)..
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
think about it birddog
Lets say you can bring in Mario Williams/ Cliff Avril then u draft kuechly in the first round !!!!
Omg !!! Wide 9 all day !!! Fight fire with Fire!!!!
You have Mario, ware, rat, lissemore, hatcher avril, spencer rushing all day..
With kuechly, lee, and carter as lbs roaming the field.. After that this team needs to fine 2 cbs some where that is a upgrade over TNew.
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
The eagles run the wide 9.
They led the league in sacks and were second in stuff rate.
bitterlyhonest - February 17, 2012
I think it would work if we just let or guys rush and let our Lbs roam the field..(saying we do pick up another quality LB)
lostar2009 - February 17, 2012
i'll say 4-3 under is waht would work here
but birddog, waht would you think about using both fronts? being still the 3-4 the primary one but using more 4-3 not just in nickel
ratware - February 17, 2012
I would run a 3-4 Falcon
Pretty much the same thing as a 4-3 Under but the NT lines up over the Center and takes a 2 gap responsibility. Your WOLB (Ware) still plays the 9 tech just like the WDE in a 4-3 Under, he just plays a 2 point stance instead of a 3 point stance. Now your 3-4 DE’s have a 1 gap responsibility to either run or pass blitz. The SOLB has the option of dropping into coverage or come on the blitz. From here there are a number of run/pass bltz packages you can use that can bring the either safety, ILB or corner on a blitz and allows you to drop back in a number of coverage packages.
I just feel the 3-4 Falcon has more flexibilty than any of the 4-3 schemes from a standpoint of personal, blitz and coverage packages you can use and is a good base scheme for both run and pass.
Birddog26 - February 17, 2012
isn't that basically what Dallas runs now BD?
for all intents and purposes you described Dallas’ Defense to a tee(except that Ratliff tends to one gap and the DE’s tend to 2-gap…..)
I am Ironman!!! - February 20, 2012
It is the opposite of what Dallas runs
When a DE has a 2 gap responsibility he cannot commit to a gap to get into the backfield to blitz or he will allow an open running lane for the RB. With the Falcon you can have the NT cover both A gaps and let the DE’s go run/pass blitz on the 2 B gaps and get in the backfield to stop the run or rush the passer. With Falcon there is also a lot more that I can do with Ware or an ILB to get them a free lane to the QB.
It is the 2 gap responsibility (along with poor secondary play) that really makes or DE’s ineffective in a pass rush on 1st down or 2cnd and short.
Birddog26 - February 20, 2012
I wouldn't mind
If our defense lined up
M. Williams – J. Ratliff – S. Lissemore – D. Ware
B. Carter – L. Keuchly – S. Lee
But we still need secondary and O-Line help and signing Mario Williams and drafting Luke Keuchly take away 2 great opportunities to get that help. CB is deep though, and so is O-Line, we could make this defense work.
DEL1SLE - February 16, 2012
and we’d need more LB depth
DEL1SLE - February 16, 2012
we may still be able to get a guy like finneagan
Or draft a cb in the the second round.. there is also a few mlb prospects that may come into play for dallas if they switch to a 4-3 style D
Converted 4-3 DE into 3-4 lbs has an advantage you can switch them back to 4-3 DEs at will :)
lostar2009 - February 16, 2012 via mobile
he's wrong spears can play DT, Lee can play MLB and carter, actually i'm more sure about carter playing 4-3 than 3-4
ware can handle DE
i have been saying this whole debate is useless why they need to put a tag on all, fexibility is all, just look at the cheater bellichick, he uses what works for him, right now i say this team have the personnel to use both fronts, using both front would benefit greatly this defense you are less predictable, you are more flexible to change according situations, dallas already plays a lot of 4-3 in nickel fronts
ratware - February 17, 2012
maybe we can draft more *smart* players
like Sean Lee… because we definitely have the DC to run wild packages, the issue is confusion. With clowns like Mike Jenkins and Sensi we have mix ups and get burned. This is why our D got more vanilla as the season rolled on.
soul.rebel138 - February 17, 2012
We should just switch to a 5-2
Sign Finnegan and move him to WR, maybe try Jesse Holley out at safety… how about it guys?!!?
soul.rebel138 - February 17, 2012
Bruce Smith: Thoughts on Texans' 3-4
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/print?id=36529
Jonathan Stern - February 17, 2012
I guess I dont see why Mario Williams wouldnt be a 3-4 DE
on early downs, and go wide in passing situations. I understand that he has played the edge his entire career, but he has enough quickness, strength, size, and anchor to be disruptive from inside on early downs. Then he could do what he has always done in 2nd/3rd and long.
Isnt he right around 300 lbs? Its not like he’d be undersized. It’s not the same as asking say Dwight Freeney to play the 5. And I dont know how much it would hurt his sack totals if at all.
I’d be interested in seeing how many snaps Dallas played a true 3-4 vs. how many they lined up with a 4 man line. Williams would still have a ton of opportunities to rush from the edge. He’s so athletic he’d probably accidently get 4-5 sacks from inside. Id also like to see how many of Ware’s sacks came out of the 4 man line vs. how many he got from a true 3-4 on early downs.
Either way, I guess it’s a matter of whether or not Williams would want to do it or not. Im not in favor of spending that kind of money, but this isnt a question of whether or not Williams can or can’t play inside.
Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) - February 18, 2012
I completely agree with you
Super Mario is so talented that he can play anywhere on the line that he wants. That’s the thing though, does he want to play that the 3-4 DE? It’s not as glamorous and he’s not used to it. If the money is all the same, I think he would go to a scheme where he’s more comfortable
somebodyquiet - February 19, 2012
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