Blogging The Boys

Even 4 million is pushing it but thats just me.

Agreed

(Almost) Anthony Spencer is better than what many people give him credit.

However, there is no way the Cowboys are going to spend $8-9M/year on him. I’ll take him back at $3-4M/year, but I wouldn’t be surprised is someone flush with cash pays him closer to $6M.

Conn Cowboy - February 13, 2012 reply

Agreed

4M as a runstopper stopgap, while the team drafts a pass rusher it can develop.

PhilipKDick - February 13, 2012 reply

Let them.....

and keep the Compensation pick.

Cowboys need to learn to say goodby when they get something back.

I have no idea why?

He is a guy at everything he does. This is the type of player the Cowboys keep and why they suffer through these horrible years. I compare him to Martellus Bennett on offense as two of the guys who need to go..

To me it is not the money because it is not mine. It is the lack of production by a guy who never faces double teams and still can’t produce but a half sack a game..

bevomav - February 13, 2012 reply

How much does it cost to really upgrade from Spencer?

And is that money better spent elsewhere?

Maybe the 3-4 is a fail?

Sign real linemen and go cheap on this spot.

If we are talking a switch to the 4-3

we probably can let Spence go. We have DE like we have OG; enough depth and prospective talent to roll. Would be best served to pick up a LB.

why cant we play both?

There are teams out there who employ a hybrid scheme… why not the cowboys? Just draft players who can play versatile roles.

#DBoyZ - February 14, 2012 reply

that's too much

Butler might not have the size Spencer does but he’s got twice the motor and speed. Take my chances with Butler before I pay Spencer twice what he probably deserves.

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Butler is not

An every down player….

drobe86 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

yet.

But truthfully we don’t know that he isn’t. He hasn’t be given the chance yet.

Victor Butler made an impact whenever he saw the field

Go back and watch the New England game. Butler did more in his few snaps than Spencer did in his nearly full game. Butler has a big-time motor, which I think Spencer lacks. There are too many plays where he is just a spectator. I’ve studied Butler in a few games from this past season, and I would be more than willing to give him a shot at this job this season. How much worse than Spencer can he really be? I wouldn’t even say that Spencer’s run defense is noticeably better than Butler’s (though I haven’t seen much of it from Butler, admittedly. But that’s largely by design).

Key19 - February 13, 2012 reply

Butler is light in the ass

And gets plowed back on run downs.

Nickthegrip - February 13, 2012 reply

"The Mad Beaver"

I watched every game he played at OSU, being an Oregon resident myself. He has an endless motor he’s faster, more athletic and I know he wants it more you can tell when he plays. He just needs the opportunity.

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

It couldn't hurt to promote Victor Butler to starter

Oh it might...

Omar Little - February 14, 2012 reply

A rotation of him and Albright wouldnt hurt that much in comparison to what has been hurting the lsat few years

Butler made an impact on some 3rd downs it’s a reason he wasn’t in the game more.. If he is so good why not have him on 1st and 2nd down and not just 3rd

Coop1228 - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Only because that bum Spencer is hogging all his snaps.

TXHC - February 14, 2012 reply

I wonder, if we had better play at DE, would Spencer's game improve?

pfloyd1 - February 14, 2012 reply

thats one of our biggest problems is Spears is a runstopper as well as Spencer being a runstopper

So probably but I still don’t see him ever giving his all for a full game/season. That is definatly someone I don’t want on my team when the going gets tough and we need that miracle play, ie. a strip sack at the end of a very close game while the opponent is driving.

He is only "Almost Anthony" because opposing QBs slide up in the pocket where our DE's should be.

and Spencer is for 9 Million?

Couldn’t tell he was even out there half the time. He’s never seen a double team in his career and he still can’t get to the quarterback.

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Good lord, we're screwed for another couple years if we do this.

If Spencer was what we’d thought he would be originally, sure. But he’s not. He’s a decent run-stopper who can’t rush the passer. We don’t need that at 8 or 9 million. We don’t even need that at 6 million. If this happens, the front office is much stupider than I thought.

don't be surprised

That office doesn’t like admitting when it’s wrong. For instance, M. Bennett, F. Jones, O. Scandrick. How long did it take them to figure out what kind of player B. Carpenter is?

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Scandrick's pretty solid. Not a lockdown corner or anything, and probably not a starter on the outside, but he's a very good nickel.

But you're right that they don't normally admit failure, at least not very quickly.

Plus he was a 5th rounder...

The Cowboys weren’t “wrong” on him. I can’t say they were all they wrong about Bennett or Felix either. Bennett is a very good blocker and Felix is a nice piece. They may have both been over-drafted, I guess. I just think those three are weak examples of the FO being stubborn.

forgot about M. Spears

Ya Scandrick is debatable just because of where he was taken. The other players before mentioned are decent pieces but none of them have consistently done what we’ve needed them to do. Time to move on

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

I don't this is true

They’ve dumped just about the entire 09 draft class, they dumped draft choices from last year, they dumped Flo then Colombo and Gurode.

The idea that they hang onto players to prove they were right rings false. If the guy plays badly, it’s just as obvious and is de facto an admission anyway, so there is no face to be saved plus you lose games while spending money. You look a lot smarter when you cut guys at the right time.

I do think they sometimes hang onto players out of a misplaced sense of personal loyalty, but those days appear to be over as well after last year’s Stalinesque purge.

dunkman - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

Well, I should've made that clear.

I think they always have done that. Hopefully that period’s over now. After last year, that appears to be the case.

So far JG seems. to have

The same ruthlessness Jimmy Johnson had. And I think you have to have that to keep the roster optimized.

dunkman - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

good point

Alan Ball a 7th rd pick has won many games (just not for us) and lasted longer on the roster than most thought.

HA!

Alan Ball a 7th rd pick has won many games (just not for us)

the list goes on

That can be said for every player in the defensive backfield last year

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Ball hws the measurables that

Dallas liked and I think they all honestly see our young corners problem as technique and.coaching. So I see ball back for some real coaching and a decision being made next season on him. As for Spencer I’m just gonna say pay the man don’t listen to the idiots who know nothing about football on this site. No way we can replace his production I promise y’all this. This time next year everyone will be.looking in the draft again for another replacement for who ever replaced him. Waste of time and money pay Spencer now.

Sado44 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

While I agree in that we most likely will be looking for Spencer's replacement this time next year too

I strongly disagree on paying him to stay. He has no drive and his taking games off is old and worn out. He doesnt deserve a decent sized contract so if by pay him now you mean somehting closer to 4 mil then maybe. I have grwon very weary of his Almost mentality. Every time we gotta say well he Almost got him. He is a runstopper and we already have that in our entire Dline so he becomes the odd man out. With all the single coverage he gets we need much more production from him. Now if we go out and grab a dominant pass rushing De/Nt then I could see him having some value on this team cuz we do need to stop the run. That’s a big if though and I’m not sure it’s gonna happen. I honestly hope it doesnt really we don’t need him on this team anymore.

Which is the reason we are a mediocre team, P.N.

The arrogance of the front office and oddly, their loyalty to useless players as well. JJ is getting more sentimental by the hour.

stubabe - February 13, 2012 reply

Ugh.

Bennett better leave.

yeah, don't like this

at all! I don’t want to give another 9 mil to a guy who admitted he wasn’t giving his all in 2010. Anthony “Almost There” Spencer has had the chance to deliver more times than not. He just can’t get it done in the passing game. 31 QB hurries and 6 sacks this season 2nd to Ware who had 40 QB hurries with 19.5 sacks! I just can’t come to grips as to why Spencer can’t get over the hump and come up with more plays being across from ALL PRO WARE, it just boggles my mind. Come on Stephen and Jerry, don’t do this.

We need to upgrade the position, not keep the status quo!

textaz03 - February 13, 2012 reply

What's up, textaz03?

Don’t know how much video you watched this season, but that 31 hurries would have translated into a LOT more sacks if our Dline had collapsed the pocket a little. “Almost Anthony” would have been “Anthony” if QBs could not slide left and forward at will. Even DWare (less so this season,) gets a little far upfield and does not contain his side of the pocket.

*sometimes gets a little far upfield...

Market price

IF turns out they can resign Spencer for $4-5 mil/year then it’s a serious consideration. But then they MUST upgrade the DL. I’m willing to believe Spencer is better with better players in front of him, but have to move heaven & earth to get a big time DL thru draft, FA, moving Rat outside. Status quo is not an option.

DB23 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

I fully agree.

We would be unwise to not keep Spence at $5Mil a year.
And even if we keep our FAs, our Dline rotation can not be solved through regular means in 1.2 offseasons. If we draft Poe or Brent develops into a full time NT, and Rat transitions to DE, there is still room for an upgrade at second OLB and DE positions.
Still, though, I would feel more comfortable rolling with a front seven of Spence/Coleman/Brent/Rat/Ware/Lee/Carter and upgrading CB, S and C.

AustonianAggie - February 13, 2012 reply

I will agree that

Dline needs an upgrade too. Move Rat outside and get a big NT to push the middle should help. However, I don’t like the idea of giving Spencer almost 9 Mil for a single season to see if that fixes our pass rush, when we have other areas of need that need to be addressed. If it would be for around 5-6 Mil I would be all for it, but not at this price.

textaz03 - February 13, 2012 reply

DL

Man, you said it. If we could get our hands on Williams and Nicks, we could have one of the most dominate fronts in football.

Spencer becomes our strong olb. Carter@ weak olb. Lee in the middle.

DE Williams
DT Ratliff/Hatcher
DT Brent/Spears/Lissimore
DE Ware

Even if we can’t retain Spencer after Nicks and Williams come on, Carter can play strong side and Butler/McCray/Church can play more of a blitz package/coverage scheme.

We then draft DeCastro and Gilmore in the first 2 rounds. Brewster/Burfict/Adams in the 3rd

Ryan Broyles in the 4th

Cliff Harris in the 5th

You now have a solid OLine, solid front 7, new starting corner with size, new 4th corner to get rid of Ball, and 2 stud receivers to come in and compete.

mfoster - February 13, 2012 via Android app reply

Yall people are amazing

Thank goodness y’all aren’t running this team.

Sado44 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

sign a JAG and draft one early

Spend a couple mil on Q. Groves (OAK) or E. Walden (GB) or C. Chamberlain (St.L) and draft your DE/OLB hybrid in rd 1 or 2. That way you have a warm body to play the position to start the year and your rookie starts as a nickel rusher and hopefully takes the job by mid-year.

DB23 - February 13, 2012 reply

E Walden

probably does not qualify under the RKG rules

BigBad Joe - February 13, 2012 reply

Erik Walden is a guy we cut

I know but he has had some off the field issues in GB

BigBad Joe - February 13, 2012 reply

Not so much who but need a vet who can play a bit

Point is you can’t just assume a draft pick like Curry or Ingram who were DEs in college can make the transition to OLB quickly and flawlessly—you need a vet there to pick up the slack. Maybe Butler is that guy but the whispers are he’d be run over on early downs.

DB23 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

Why we need to play a 4-3.

Point is you can’t just assume a draft pick like Curry or Ingram who were DEs in college can make the transition to OLB quickly and flawlessly

It ain’t hard.

In a recent Bob Sturmn column(FEB 2)

he cited NFL analyst Pat Kirwan who contended DAL opponents game plan for our D as it it were a 4-3. Quoting the article, ‘If you stop the film right after the snap, the Cowboys look just like a 4-3 under defense all of the time." Citing the way Ratliff is used with the way Ware is rushed almost all the time, it is, in effect, not what its called, certainly not the ’typical’ 3-4 that PIT, BAL, and now SF deploy.

Asking that if you take that into account – RAT is essentially a DT not an NT, DWare a WS DE – both in a 4-3, this ‘4-3 deployment’ on passing downs by RR and ‘4-3 consideration’ mentioned by JG recently after season end – isn’t it all an acknowledgement for what everyone else considers a de facto reality?

Guess it ain’t so hard after all – changing a gimmicky 3-4 into a solves everything 4-3. Just call it by its real name.

tdships - February 13, 2012 reply

We've been doing this since at least 2009

I remember NFL Matchup did a segment on this. Merrell Hodge broke down the defense we used against teams that like to throw the ball a lot. Ware and Spencer lined up as 43DEs, with Rat and Spears lined up inside as DTs. This was our base 4 (down linemen)-2 (inside linebacker)-5 (defensive back) formation.

We used that 4-2-5 as a base defense for sure against the Saints, and in the 3 Eagles games.

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

And there

you have it.

jevans1729 - February 13, 2012 reply

TD, Pat is semi correct in his assesment

The 4-3 under or “Elephant” keeps everyone in a 1 gap responsibilty but the way Ryan is running his 3-4 keeps the T and DE’s in a 2 gap but tries to use Ware as the 4-3 Elephant DE. He is trying to keep Ware free to the weak side but sacrifices the other lineman in the process.

IMHO we would be better suited to using a true hybrid 3-4 “Falcon” which lines the NT up over center and gives him a 2 gap responsibility and shade the DE’s to allow them to rush “Ron or Pass” in a 1 gap. Ware still remains the weakside “Elephant” LB which he plays, but now you have 3 rushers in Run or Pass instead of basically 1 that we saw this last season.

This would also allow the use of a rushing inside LB to flood a gap and break free to the QB or go outside “Bandit” with the a corner or safety. This is more of a truer blend of a 3-4 and a 4-3 defense that I feel would be better suited to stopping both run and pass.

Birddog26 - February 13, 2012 reply

It appears,

to some extent, the other linemen get unfairly criticized here a little because of the scheme as respects their pass rush capabilities. If memory serves, the two gap responsibility is more of a “read and react” scheme and would somewhat compromise the DEs pass rush abilities as opposed to the hybrid you outlined. In that scheme only the NT gets the two gap responsibility. I like your defense better.

jevans1729 - February 13, 2012 reply

I think our 3-4 is confusing

to everyone! fans and players.

our front 7 is basically

DeMarcus Ware, Sean Lee, & Rat

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

Yeah it is.

Which

Would argue for a stouter NT. Interesting point.

dunkman - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

We could run it with the personel we have on staff

But we would be better served getting a larger NT and moving Rat to the DE where he would have a 1 gap responsibility. Let him just hit the gap and go.

Birddog26 - February 13, 2012 reply

Haynesworth

Ha!

mfoster - February 13, 2012 via Android app reply

All that is inaccurate.....

Rat is lining up as a nt . It’s different. The 3-4 is predicated on trickery and disguise. The Gmen line up four and you don’t see half the movement you do in our 3-4. In RR’s 3-4 the nt plays 2 gap. Wade played a 1 gap penetrating style. His is closer to a 4-3 than RR’s.

In a 4-3 you don’t have the gimmicks. Trying to disguise blitzes. Skip flopping sides. No we don’t don’t play a 4-3. Dallas makes it harder than it needs to be.

As I said. It ain’t hard.

Flip Flopping sides (edit)

This was a reply to tdships.

If the rules state that I can use the Franchise tag on anybody

I would use it on Laurent Robinson. It is worth it trying to lock up Robinson long term. After all we need to keep Tony Romo happy.

Jessy S - February 13, 2012 reply

Any idea what cost of franchising a WR is this season?

approx 9.4 Mil

textaz03 - February 13, 2012 reply

Is LR really worth that to us?

That is money for a decent, proven CB. We have Harris, and WRs are not too hard to come by. I woud spend that money on our D or a C

He's worth it

Do you really want to break up the chemistry he and Romo have?

I’d rather have Robinson than Austin at this point. Austin’s numbers have gone down since he broke out. Even if you extrapolate his numbers over 16 games in 2011, it’s still worse than 2010. Robinson’s got a better feel for the position that Austin doesn’t have.

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

Kind of my point.

They developed that chemistry very quickly. Hadn’t really thought about the Austin vs LR debate. At the moment I’d agree as long as we were trading Austin and not eating his prorated signing bonus.
Improving our Oline will help Romo and our receiving corps… I’d say keep Austin, let LR go and sign a C.

Miles Austin's

cap hit for 2012 is $2,720,000. Miles was guranteed 18 mil when he signed his 57 mil contract in 2010. He was paid 17mil in 2010 in the uncapped year and paid 2.255 mil in 2011. Therefore, his gurantee is paid and his cap number is very friendly. Miles is going nowhere, at least not now. The Cowboys can always restructure his deal down the road because his signing bonus was only 7.85 mil. He has the most cap friendly deal on the team.

jevans1729 - February 14, 2012 reply

I think I rather Franchise Robinson than Spencer

Nevermind

The 9.4 mil

“tag” number is a factitious number at best. No one is going to give Laurent Robinson 9.4mil in 2012. What the tag does is eliminate other bidders. With all of the WRs in FA why would you waste the tag on Robinson? Let him go out and see what the market says he’s worth. Whatever it is, he WILL NOT be making more money than Miles Austin.

jevans1729 - February 14, 2012 reply

I like Spence, but not $9 Mil worth of like.

I truly believe that shoring up our D-line will raise Spencer’s productivity, he is a better pass rusher than most give him credit for. However, this money is well spent in other places.
Why do we not believe that Spencer would not sign willingly for 6-8 Mil? The 3-4 is less popular than the 3-4, he would probably have to transition, same as Mathis or Williams would have to transition for us.
If we are going to commit to big money, spend an extra mil or two and get Williams.

Exactly.

If we are going to commit to big money, spend an extra mil or two and get Williams.

with Spencer it`s a 1 yr shot

with Mario it`s a 4-5 yr shot.

I'm not mad at the idea of signing Williams for a few years.

This is true.

And certainly something to consider. Really, I wasn’t trying to advocate signing Williams… we can’t franchise Spencer though.

Being serious, please tell me why not Williams?

The money.

I think he’s going to get paid really well by someone. I think he’s a really good player. He may even be worth the contract that he ends up getting. For the Cowboys, though, I think we’d be better served signing a few FA rather than blowing our space on one big guy.

Although, if he’d be willing to play 3-4 DE.. it would be tempting. I don’t think he wants that, though.

Thanks.

I’m with you. I can think of better places to spend that money. Long-term probably not the best thing for the franchise. If we do spend money on MW, there could have been worse endeavors, IMO.

Wanting Mario and getting Mario

2 different things.

That's what my mom said to me Christmas morning of '87...

Ha.

yeah it might be too expensive

yeah...

HAHAHAHAHA

Well said sir! I’d Rec that!

Mario sounds good

But we have to realize he and Wade essentially play the same position as weak side OLB meaning one of (most likely Mario) will have to drop back in coverage more than he’s ever had to.

But if we switch to a base 4-3 well then all bets are off he may be more valuable than Nicks, especially if Decastro is there at 14

CowboyWay - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

Thanks.

If 4-3 D, I assume Carter will be Mike, Lee will be strong side, and who will be weak side?
Williams/Brent/Rat/Ware?

As far as LBs go we should be pretty well off if we switched to a 4-3

We’ve got Butler, Albright, and Lemon all ready for more time. So between Lee and Carter any of those guys could help out with fresh sets of legs rotating through.

Thanks again.

Anytime my good man!

One.Cool.Customer - February 13, 2012 reply

this isn't a one year project

Might as well get a head start at building that position. We already know what we get with him he’s hit the ceiling hard

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

If they do, it's probably so they can do a 1-yr deal...

Spencer would probably sign for $6 mil, but would want more than a 1yr deal. If they are considering this option I’m betting it’s for 2 reasons:

1 – he’s a good a stop-gap option as anyone if they use a high pick on an OLB… with the expectation that the draft choice will be able to step in towards the end of the year and beyond.

2 – perhaps they’re also thinking he might do better with a stronger line and are willing to give it a year to find out — with the idea of signing a FA or spending a high draft pick on the DL.

Either way — using the Franchise Tag on him would only take up 1 year so they’re not hooked into anything long-term.

I’m sure they’re discussing several options on how to approach free agency and the draft and this is just one of them.

scottc12345 - February 13, 2012 reply

OCC

Are they tagging Spencer as an exuslive franchise guy or non-exclusive franchise player?

If he’s non-exclusive, he’s free to negotiate with other teams and if the Cowboys don’t match the offer they get draft picks in return.

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

Too early to tell. At this point it’s just rumblings out of Valley Ranch. It could just as well be a smokescreen of some kind.

Its more likely the situation where they are going over there options

Of course they are “considering” franchising spencer. Now before we get our panties twisted i dont mean of course as in duh it should happen; but rather its part of the process, what options do you have with each player.

Just like i’m sure they have a “tony romo evaluation” meeting or a jason witten meeting or a ware meeting. Dosent mean or rather still isnt likely you’ll see wit or romo on trade block. Its just part of the evaluation abd discussion the teams options moving forward.

IMO.

Proxy406 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

We `ve seen the ceiling on Spencer

he might duplicate last yr`s performance with a franchise tag and I suppose if we franchise him for 1 yr and draft an OLB in rd 3 maybe we get lucky enough to part ways with Spencer next yr without having to address the position in rd 1 in 2013. With the Tag on Spencer this takes away serious FA money to land a Carl Nicks type as well. Also probably instead of a Finnegan we get a cheaper CB and maybe instead of a QB like Orton we draft one instead, making McGee the number 2.

Tag Spencer
FA signings Laurent Robinson / Tony Fiammetta
Center Dan Koppen
Cornerback Terrell Thomas

The Draft
Rd 1 Mark Barron S Alabama really need to clean up the Safety mess.
Rd 2 Brandon Boykin CB Georgia Play maker for the secondary.
Rd 3 Cam Johnson DE Virginia seems undersized for DE but the Boys are looking at him…maybe for 4-3 sets.
Rd 4 Brett Roy OLB Nevada An audition to see if he can replace Spencer after 1 yr.
Rd 4 Lucas Nix OG Pittsburgh Our type of G
Rd 5 B.J. Coleman QB Chattanooga Number 3 QB behing McGee
Rd 6 George Bryan TE North Carolina State Excellent blocker and Red zone threat
Rd 7 Julian Miller OLB West Virginia Hedge our bet with Spencers 2013 replacement.

Nice!

After reading up on Barron, I would pass. I’d try to trade back or draft DeCastro/BPA OLB/DE.
I really like the Bryan pick even though we are currently stocked at TE/HB. Give the kid time to develop.

Cam Johnson

Played OLB at the Senior Bowl—he could be an option in rd 2 or 3 as one of those DE to OLB hybrid/transition types

DB23 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

interesting

I see some draft experts thinking he could play DE in a 3-4, so maybe the Boys are looking at him as a 3-4 OLB.

Blue Eyed Devil - February 13, 2012 reply

a few points..

if they plan on spending the $9m anyway, why not get mario williams?

or

move rat over and spend on a new nt at a lower price.

rockkicker - February 13, 2012 reply

Disagree on that one

If we are gonna shell out 9 mil at the position, I’d rather take a risk on an “unknown” (seriously, Mario Williams is a beast, and though he hasn’t seen much action in a 3-4, would end up being an instant upgrade) like Williams. If we have to shell out that kinda money, why not roll the dice instead of sticking with a bum? 9 mil for Spencer is at least well over 4 times what he’s worth, not worth the cap hit. Hell, I’d take a journeyman at a lower price that hasn’t even played in a 3-4 and see if we can coach him up than Spencer at this point. We all know what he is, and that isn’t great. In fact, it’s barely serviceable. Make him a low offer, and see if other teams bite on paying him more. If they do, screw it, find someone else.

phoenix11 - February 13, 2012 reply

no no no no no no no no no no no

Ha!

My first reaction as well

phoenix11 - February 13, 2012 reply

I have hard time swallowing the thought that Spencer is worth 4 million/yr

AustonianAggie - February 13, 2012 reply

Machivallian side of me says this:

Dallas has no intention of franchising Spencer, but wanted to leak that idea to the media, as a covert overture to Spencer to get working on an amiable contract. Dallas was luke warm at the end of the season but I think now they’re trying to be more active in wooing him back — but at a reasonable and respectable contract.

So basically they’re floating this because he’s been roundly dissed in Dallas and they’re trying to make him feel more welcomed before they ask for a real contract

Had not thought of it that way

but you could very well be right, does not cost a dime to let it slip, and could help mend some hurt feelings along the way

BigBad Joe - February 13, 2012 reply

I like the way you think.

This feels like a bit of a negotiating ploy. I still think they are going to have to see what the market is, and I definitely think they need to have a hard ceiling, in the $4 million range, for Spencer. If someone wants him more than that, then we will have to part ways.

Tom Ryle - February 13, 2012 reply

hope so

It just doesn’t make any sense at that price

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

9 Million?

How do you justify it?

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

If this is what it comes to......

kissing up to a player who by his own words considers himself “lazy”.

Cowboy front office clueless for leaking such a meme if true.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2562/ahmad-brooks

Take a run at this guy:

Seriously. There are options out there not named Williams.

ary201 - February 13, 2012 reply

I like Brooks.

I wonder how much he’ll end up getting.

I hope they are considering him.

Honestly the more I think about individual talents of pass rushers, the less I get excited about getting a “STAR” player. I think it’s more about raising the level of play across the board. The better pass rushing fronts don’t have two D-Wares. They have a guy that’s really good a bunch of players who can apply pressure consistently.

ary201 - February 13, 2012 reply

Um

The Steelers have Harrison and Woodley are star pass rushers, as they’re one of the best tandems in the league.

When healthy JPP, Osi and Tuck make a great trio for the Giants-this year they combined for 30 sacks.

Babin and Cole were a terror this year.

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

I'm talking about talent acquisition

Those teams didn’t go out and pay for star players in free agency.

The one guy that was a free agent, Babin, wasn’t courted as the elite pass rusher everyone wanted. He signed a pretty reasonable contract.

Again, this isn’t about the draft. The Cowboys want to draft a pass rusher in the first 3 rounds, be my guest. Love it. But going after a splash move like Mario Williams? Not going to be worth it. I think the money is better spent getting a few smart pieces to raise the level of the whole defense.

ary201 - February 13, 2012 reply

ok fair enough

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

I heard Philly is going to tag Jackson.

DIRE WOLF - February 13, 2012 reply

That`s even crazier than tagging Spencer.

BTW I sure hope this is n`t a ploy to sign him up long term like some are saying…almost Anthony will become Invisible Anthony.

Not a bad move to be honest.

Spencer isn’t as terrible as everyone around here says.

I don't think he's terrible

but its a horrible move at $9 mill for one reason.

That's true.

How about I’ll let it be known I don’t want him other than a resigning of a contract worth $3-4 million. Sound good?

I think even that is overpaying a bit, he just hasn't had the production to back up that kinda contract in my mind

phoenix11 - February 14, 2012 reply

Yeah, $9million

Um, no. I think I’ll pass.

NerdVernacular - February 13, 2012 reply

That pretty much sums up my feelings.

Rena - February 13, 2012 reply

Never pay a guy double what he'd command on the open market.

There’s only so much cap space to work with.

This is Clarence Hill writing the story, take it with a grain of salt.

I don’t remember Jerry ever tagging a player, I doubt he tags Spencer.

DIRE WOLF - February 13, 2012 reply

He's tagged a lot of drunk chicks though.

but they all sucked

oh wait a minute…Jerry got that one right.

Ken Hamlin? only one I can think of

If we get rid of Spencer it would create another need because we have no one ready to at least fill that role for a yr, another point, had Anthony Spencer had a monster season he would command more than 9 mill, no doubt

Solonupe03 - February 13, 2012 reply

surely no doubt

had Anthony Spencer had a monster season he would command more than 9 mill, no doubt

Key part in all this is that he in fact didnt have anything close to a monster year so he no doubt doesnt command upwards of 9mil. Honestly I couldn’t care less if 3-4 mil doesnt appease him I hope it doesn’t and he walks to another team where he can be sub par and take gmes off for them not us.

silly thinking that 3-4 mill would appease an UFA

Solonupe03 - February 13, 2012 reply

To both of your posts:

Yeah, man, we are lucky that our interior line wasn’t beasting last year, because Spencer would be getting paid right now. Keep him @ $5.5 Mil a year for four years, a bargain!

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/

Bad move

9 million for Spencer? No way. 3-4 million for Spencer? Eh, okay.

TheDemolitionDan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

source of rumor

apparently the Cowboy “source” for this is Bob Sturm

Dr-P - February 13, 2012 reply

Horrible move to sign him at that price

try to keep him at a 4-5 million deal, if it works out great, if not we should give Butler a shot at the job and we could draft Ingram or Upshaw.

CaliCowboysFan92 - February 13, 2012 reply

there goes all of our cap money, awesome

they'd be foolish not to consider it.

Doesn’t mean it will happen.

thebigham - February 13, 2012 reply

That is a Snyder-ish type of move

People haven't learned their lesson

The Eagles signed Nnamdi in the offseason, traded for another CB, and got cute trying to making Nnamdi a glorified FS as opposed to playing him on one side of the field like he’s been great at. What happens, Nnamdi struggles last year.

Now people on here for about a month are suggesting we sign Mario Williams and ask him to sacrifice from being a primary pass rusher as a 43DE or 34 OLB and move over to 34 DE which is the same as playing 43DT.

This isn’t Madden 12 were transition from one position to another is seemless.

I’d rather franchise Spencer (meaning he’s here for 1 more year) than sign Mario Williams and not play him at 34 OLB or 43 DE. It will just be a waste of money. If we sign Williams we’re better off switching to the 43 and letting him play DE as opposed to trying to turn him into Justin Smith.

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

I agree with everything, except..

Anthony Spencer at $8 or 9 million a year? I’d honestly rather have some JAG we bring in for $2-3 mill and use the rest of that money toward filling other holes. Like I said earlier, I really don’t hate Spencer. I think he’s a solid part of the defense, and I’d like to keep him around. But I want him at $9 mill about as much as I wanna resign T-New.

That JAG is already on the roster

V Butler/A Albright come on down.

Reading the Sturm article, he makes the same case I have – why create another opening when DAL has so many other holes to fill? Except the Franchise Tag is a very steep price to pay, so has a huge Opportunity Cost – but it is for only 1 season. Didn’t we do this w Hamlin a coupe of years back?

tdships - February 13, 2012 reply

we sure did then overpaid him and cut him subsequently

You are spot on about Butler/ALbright being Jags that can cover down for his departure too

If they franchise him, can't they still work out a new deal with him?

aubatron2011 - February 13, 2012 reply

why would you want him long term?

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

I'm just saying that the franchise tag is kind of like arbitration in baseball.

I don’t want him for the long term, but I think if they were to use the franchise tag on him, they would try and work out a deal so his cap hit is less than what it would be if he was playing on the franchise tag.

aubatron2011 - February 13, 2012 reply

I guess I just don't understand NFL finances

I can’t imagine how Anthony Spencer is worth 9M for a season. He’s a 50 tackle 15 assist 6 sack guy. That’s pretty indicative of his production for each of the last 3 seasons. Decent, but hardly irreplaceable. You make him a fair offer and if someone want to pay him more so be it. Got a lot of holes to fill and a lot of dead money against the cap this year. Spending 9M to postpone dealing with rush LB a season doesn’t seem wise to me.

Evildallas - February 13, 2012 reply

I'm not advocating one of the big dollar DE either

When I say don’t pay Spencer 9M, I don’t mean pay his replacement 9M either especially if it takes a shoehorn to make the player fit the system. Use the money to create a strength at another sport. We’ve lived with average production at that spot for years. If you can’t upgrade the performance then minimize the expense at that spot.

Evildallas - February 13, 2012 reply

That's my thinking.

If you can’t upgrade the performance then minimize the expense at that spot.

Not sure what the logic would be in franchising him. I get that we don’t wanna create another “need” spot, but it’s not as if we’d be letting DWare go. Spencer’s pretty decent, but he’s not something we can’t replace, or at least mostly replace, fairly easily. I dunno, maybe I’m missing something. Wouldn’t be the first time.

So many things would be thrown and/or broken

in my household

Rat-Pack - February 13, 2012 reply

if this happened.

Rat-Pack - February 13, 2012 reply

Oh god no.

Love Spencer, but he shouldn’t be paid like Carl Nicks or Cortland Finnegan.

Omar Little - February 13, 2012 reply

This is why the Cowboys lose..

Spencer is a guy..he is good at stopping the run and just a guy at everything else. They have to upgrade the position and if they keep Spencer the same team will take the field next season.

bevomav - February 13, 2012 reply

Correctomundo.....

cannot beleive a rumor like this made it to this site.

believe that is

Yeah, this and the Moss article.

But, this is a Cowboy’s news blog, so, why not? Not like we are making FO decisions here…

Really aint much to talk about right now.

We’re in that horrible empasse between the end of the full season and FA.

Took me a while to scroll down to a reasonable post, but I found one.

TXHC - February 14, 2012 reply

$8-9 mil, better off signing Nicks or Mario if that's the case.

I’m for keeping Spencer, but with that price tag I would pass quickly.

DCB* - February 13, 2012 reply

IMO I don’t think they would do it though.

DCB* - February 13, 2012 reply

$9 Million a year is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much

According to this site that would make Spencer our highest paid player on the roster. If he’s not our highest paid player, he’s gonna be close.

That’s a terrible allocation of resources. I would rather use another 4-5 million and grab Mario Williams OR sign Meyers (the Center) and Terrel Thomas both (signing both might cost us less than 9 million)

somebodyquiet - February 13, 2012 reply

If they do this, any faith that I had in this organizations "new leaf" will be gone.

Smart teams don’t pay 9 mil for a guy good against the run. Stupid teams do. Let’s hope it’s just a smokescreen.

Creasy729 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

I hope it's a smokescreen

It would suck to see him get tagged.

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

I'm not buyin it

What part of his career did I miss that warranted anything close to the unrealistic # of 9 million per. Seems more like a joke than anything

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

REC'd

its gotta be a smokescreen

this is dumb.

Its not nearly as bad as many here are making it out to be – a one year deal for spencer would probably do far less damage to this organization than the deal given to ratliff already has. A one year deal can only do so much damage, and limited damage at that.

But 9 million? for a slightly above average pass rusher and good run defender? Its not like Spencer is bringing a consistent rush, where he is irreplacable. You could replace him with a guy who poorly rushes the passer and our D wouldn’t drop much.

I find it very hard to believe this is real.

foyesboys - February 13, 2012 reply

Always the voice of reason.

TXHC - February 14, 2012 reply

Rec'd!

Fingers crossed!

I get the feeling

We’ll sign Spencer to something like a 5yr/30 million deal this offseason. He’s Jerry’s boy, so Jerry won’t let him go.

DerUbermensch - February 13, 2012 reply

He's Wade's pet cat

Rohpuri - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

Tag and trade?

Lissyyyyy - February 13, 2012 reply

possible

At least that makes some sense.

P.N.Westernboysfan - February 13, 2012 via iPhone app reply

highly unlikely

That would be my only reason to Tag him

Maybe I would call Aj Smith in SD and propose this offer to him:

Anthony Spencer for Larry English (has 2 years left on his contract worth about $2.3 million) and possibly 3rd round draft pick.

English has only produced 7 sacks in 29 games, but has missed time with injuries. Our med staff, strength and conditioning coaches could patch him up, rehab him. If it works out then he can his contract gives him an extra $4million in incentives. If not we cut the cord after 2013.

English was really productive in College: 50 career games, 54.5 tackles for loss, and 31.5 career sacks, which gives 1.72 splash plays per game under the Kirwan Production Ratio for college pass rushers.

Jerry did say we have enough money...

This year to do whatever we wanted to do in FA. I don’t buy this is a real story. Franchising Spencer limits our ability to do much else with all the holes we need to fill during FA. I was reading the article about Jackson in Philly and it said franchising him gives them options in including trading him.

Frankster_1 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

tagging Spencer kills our entire free agency

there goes all of our money, POOF

That's why I don't buy it.

FA is key for our draft. Without a good FA, I expect a mediocre draft based on needs and not BPA.

Frankster_1 - February 13, 2012 via mobile reply

I will cry myself to sleep if we tag Spencer

I really will cry myself to sleep and curl up into the fetal position
I really don’t like Anthony Spencer, yeah I said it Spencer, do something about it (on the field)
prove me wrong
show me why you are worth 9 million dollars

because the last 5 years and especially the last 4 weeks of the 2011 season and week 17 with the playoffs on the line, you sir disappeared like a ghost

new name for Spencer, he is a fan of Styles P, Spencer is the GHOST

new rap group

The Ghost(Spencer) and The Fatness (Holland)
Album Name: Almost Famous
Producer: Jerrah Cuzzin Jones
Label: Jerrah Jones and the 5 Rings

The Alblum drops on March 3rd ya heaaaaaaaaaaaar me

Archie Barberio - February 14, 2012 reply

hahahaha

THA WOULD BE AN UGLY MOVE

IT HAS NO SENSE

ratware - February 13, 2012 reply

Don't see it happening

I think we will resign Spencer, but I don’t think we will franchise him. With all the additional pressure we bring, I really don’t think looking for that additional pass rusher will serve us as well as we think. Really wish we would get more production out of Spencer, but hey everyone can’t be Demarcus Ware, role players are just as important to the core of a team and that’s what Spencer is.

Ihatethesaints - February 13, 2012 reply

Full Stupid.....

move. Typical Cowboys but stupid.

The organization lacks self-confidence. It just can’t let go of the status quo culture.

If there is ever a commodity position it’s OLB. Let him go and get a draft pick back if teams are dumb enough to bid on him. 9 million for a “role player”???? Do people read what they write?

Calais Campbell...DE

Rather have a real DE than spencer who says “malinvestment” all over the place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manny_Lawson

Manny Lawson??

Maybe the scouts should try to think of other players in bad situations and think of how they can tell a story about how it will be better here?

43 wonderlic score. Wow.

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/02/13/12/Using-the-franchise-tag-to-delay-a-decis/landing_cowboys.html?blockID=665174&feedID=3799.

Comment from the 49ers blog ...

You have to look at the market and ask yourself, if I lose this player, who can I bring in that can give similar play, with a similar skillset. When I look at the market at FS and OLB/DE, I see a bunch of stiffs who aren’t going to give us the kind play we saw from both this year [BROOKS AND HARYSON]. . At OLB, you have Mario Williams, who really isnt a OLB and a guy who will demand a HUGE contract. Then you have a bunch off second level guys like Anthony Spencer, who won’t provide you half of what Brooks does on a game to game basis. Like I said in the other thread, Brooks is unique in that he isnt great in one area but he does alot of things very well and that is what makes him a vaulable commodity to this scheme. And the thing is, he isn’t a double digit sack guy, so his price tag wont be crazy expensive.

the_hat - February 13, 2012 reply

A plausible outcome for Spencer ...

Putting the franchise tag on Spencer rather than re-signing him is a classic “limping in” strategy and really means we don’t have the players AND don’t know what to do about it.

Looking at the signings of Scandrick, Sensabaugh, Spears … they all feel like concessions to this point.

the_hat - February 13, 2012 reply

$9M is too much for a #2 OLB with a modest history

Right??

the_hat - February 13, 2012 reply

yes...too much

Spencer is a non impact OLB…let him go be a JAG on the Jags

9to88 - February 13, 2012 reply

Oh this sounds like a GENIUS idea.

/Jerrah

TXHC - February 13, 2012 reply

Spencer is a poser.....

not a leader. An example of what’s wrong on the defense and the Cowboys if they are serious about tagging him.

Spencer's lack of leadership is directly proportional

To your ability to evaluate players.

As is any statement made about a player.

Birddog, the NFL scout, loves him. I wonder whose judgement to trust…

CotySaxman - February 14, 2012 via mobile reply

By the way Coty.....

You meant to say “inversely” proportional since you are trying to insult me.

You’re still clueless but I’ll try to help.

starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 - February 14, 2012 reply

"and the Cowboys .. "

You nailed it.

the_hat - February 15, 2012 reply

do it, let someone else sign him, dont match and get picks for him

He's not an RFA.

So you don’t get picks.

CotySaxman - February 14, 2012 via mobile reply

Wrong again Ringo....

The Cowboys would get a compensation pick the same way they will get one for Bowen this year. It depends on if the Cowboys make a comparable signing in the FA process.

Let me see...

I’ll take Mario Williams for 2 million. And Cliff Avril for the very minimum as a backup. And Carl Nicks for 3 million. And let’s trade Butler for JJ Watt.

That would be much better than franchising Spencer. Take a look at any reputable NFL free agent rankings, and you’ll see Spencer is at or near the top of the free agent class for OLB/DE. Now some here complain that he isn’t worth half of what the others make? The lack of objectivity is astounding.

CotySaxman - February 14, 2012 via mobile reply

This is also a very realistic argument.

Spencer is good, but not $9Mil good, IMO. Not worth the average of top 5 OLBs in league. Looking at FA listings, he is consistently near the top. Everyone but Cowboys fans know what we have.

Almost

he is consistently near the top

Anthony?

LOL, alright, alright :)

He's overvalued...

which happens many times in Cowboyland. Press exposure, many tv DATES AND CONSTANT HYPE OF FAN BASE AND OWNERSHIP create these situations;

Columbo, Adams (F. and Pac-Man alike), Gurode, Barber, R. Williams (both of them), L.Davis all examples of Cowboy Talent Inflation Syndrome (CTIS). Mostly all JAG playing ability. Usually compounded by past-peak signings and poor front-office management decisions.

A butt stuipid fan base doesn’t help either.

That's "butt stupid"....

of course.

You're one of us. You can misspell stupid ;)

I’m thinking Canty. Hated on by Cowboy’s nation because he does not put up gaudy numbers, but is a guy who does his job well. Everyone else knows it…

Rec'd for the last sentence.

TXHC - February 15, 2012 reply

Look at the other sites

No one wants Spencer and certainly not for $8M.

the_hat - February 15, 2012 reply

Maybe this is part of a trade ploy....

franchise/sign and trade? There isn’t another team this stupid either.

You would think it happen more often since the initial team is stuck paying bonus/dead money in the deal. Enough might be worth a draft pick to lock down a player. Then again, you can’t force them to sign a multiyear contract so in practice you need three parties to agree. That monetary value of the draft pick is coming right out of the players pocket is the perception.