Blogging The Boys

what are these "facts" thingys that you guys are talking about?

That must have been the last myth that OCC left out. Never heard of em.

Yeah, we don't need no stinking facts.

bring out the tar and feathers

spoling our fun with facts….

now where did I put my pitchfork?

Elks83 - January 10, 2012 reply

Somehow

you have to factor the value for the Draft picks expended to acquire J Galloway, R Williams and move up to get D Bryant. Think that would portray a much different picture. Especially their relatively high position and corresponding value – it perhaps even validates the myth

The drafting OL myth needs amending – DAL doesn’t draft OL with high picks: 11 of 60 or 18% of our Top 3 picks over these last 20 years

tdships - January 9, 2012 reply

Myth 4

How many would have taken Mendenhall with the earlier pick?

birdness - January 10, 2012 reply

I was begging for Mendenhall

He had just ran wild on U.S.C. while playing for Illni… I was all over that one. That is one of the ways I evalute a players potential. If you play well against a team a huge underdog, you’re a player as an individual. For example, Marshall Faulk ran all over U.S.C playing for S.D.State. Jay Cutler was good at Vandy playing in the SEC. I knew he was better than Leinart and VY. I knew VY was better than Leinart. I remember how Jerry Rice dominated in the Blue/gray coming out of Miss Valley State. Anytime you see a player with good combine measureables that played well against better teams take notice.

Chris Miller - January 11, 2012 reply

myth busting myth busting

as regards the O line

No team in the league from 2006-2010 spent fewer HIGH ROUND picks on the O line then the Boys did

First or second round

Also if you look at the fact that Jerruh refused to use First rd picks on O line- find another team say from 2000-2010 that did NOT use a first rd on a O line man except the Boys. Guarantee it will be a short list

burmafrd1944 - January 9, 2012 reply

Also if you look at the fact that Jerruh refused to use First rd picks on O line- find another team say from 2000-2010 that did NOT use a first rd on a O line man except the Boys. Guarantee it will be a short list

i found this claim intriguing.

here are all 1st round OL picks between 2000-2011

Steve Hutchinson / Seahawks / G / Michigan
James Carpenter / Seahawks / T / Alabama
Chris Spencer / Seahawks / C / Mississippi
Russell Okung / Seahawks / T / Oklahoma State
Chris McIntosh / Seahawks / Tackle / Wisconsin
Mike Iupati / 49ers / G / Idaho
Anthony Davis / 49ers / T / Rutgers
Joe Staley / 49ers / T / Central Michigan
Kwame Harris / 49ers / T / Stanford
Alex Mack / Browns / C / California
Jeff Faine / Browns / C / Notre Dame
Joe Thomas / Browns / T / Wisconsin
Stockar McDougle / Lions / Tackle / Oklahoma
Gosder Cherilus / Lions / T / Boston College
Jeff Backus / Lions / T / Michigan
Vernon Carey / Dolphins / G / Miami (FL)
Mike Pouncey / Dolphins / G / Florida
Jake Long / Dolphins / T / Michigan
Gabe Carimi / Bears / T / Wisconsin
Chris Williams / Bears / T / Vanderbilt
Ryan Clady / Broncos / T / Boise State
George Foster / Broncos / T / Georgia
Davin Joseph / Buccaneers / G / Oklahoma
Kenyatta Walker / Buccaneers / T / Florida
Levi Brown / Cardinals / T / Penn State
Leonard Davis / Cardinals / T / Texas
Danny Watkins / Eagles / G / Baylor
Shawn Andrews / Eagles / T / Arkansas
Nick Mangold / Jets / C / Ohio State
D’Brickashaw Ferguson / Jets / T / Virginia
Derek Sherrod / Packers / T / Mississippi State
Brian Bulaga / Packers / T / Iowa
Jeff Otah / Panthers / T / Pittsburgh
Jordan Gross / Panthers / T / Utah
Logan Mankins / Patriots / G / Fresno State
Nate Solder / Patriots / T / Colorado
Jason Smith / Rams / T / Baylor
Alex Barron / Rams / T / Florida State
Ben Grubbs / Ravens / G / Auburn
Michael Oher / Ravens / T / Mississippi
Trent Williams / Redskins / T / Oklahoma
Chris Samuels / Redskins / Tackle / Alabama
Jammal Brown / Saints / T / Oklahoma
Branden Albert / Chiefs / G / Virginia
Anthony Castonzo / Colts / T / Boston College
Tyron Smith / Cowboys / T / USC
Maurkice Pouncey / Steelers / C / Florida
Duane Brown / Texans / T / Virginia Tech
Eric Wood / Bills / C / Louisville
Sam Baker / Falcons / T / USC
Eugene Monroe / Jaguars / T / Virginia
Andre Smith / Bengals / T / Alabama
Robert Gallery / Raiders / T / Iowa

so the list of teams that didn’t use a 1st round pick on OL from 2000-2010 is dal, min, ten, nyg, sd, ind (18% of the nfl).

between 2000-2011, 14 teams had only used one 1st round pick on an OL.

but the real question is, are you good at pattern recognition?

>= 3: SEA, SF, CLE, DET, MIA

<=1: NO, PIT, NYG, IND, SD, HOU, DAL, KC, BUF, JAX, CIN, OAK, MIN, TEN

We oughta be more like the powerhouses in Seattle and Miami!

That idiot Jerry should learn something from them!!!!

Not sure what you are referring to,

but most of the mistakes are Tackles. The interior guys panned out pretty nicely.

timani - January 9, 2012 reply

hes just breaking it down in two categories. first teams with 3 or more and the rest with 1 or less.

Fact

Orlando Scandrick gets an extention in spite of being burned by most slot receivers he faces and, in my opinion, being a stupid player on special teams, dont remember which game, maybe Arizona, Dez great punt return in our last possession had us deep in their side of the field only to be negated by a stupid block in the back by the great Orlando that was completely unnessesary, that game was lost there before it was lost by the kicker.

Cuban Cowboy - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Fact

Acquiring Terry Glenn and Terrelle Owens was necessary because Jerry wouldn’t draft a wr with a premium pick. Then with Glenn gone and no one on the roster to groom Jerry did the stupid thing and gave away the 09 draft for Roy. Then Owens being relased Jerry was forced to use a first rounder on Dez.. All those moves were at the detriment to the other position groups. 4 picks for 1 player.

Drafting an injured Jacob Rodgers only to realize when he arrived in Dallas his shoulder hadn’t gotten better was absolutey stupid. You don’t drat ot’s with bad shoulders. A wasted second rounder. Peterman was let go because of Bill’s ego. Only Free had worked out since then until this year with Tron. Fail by Jerry.

Then came all the wasted picks on linebackers. And how can we ever forget the trading of Fasano who was a second rounder and then drafting Bennett in the second round ? HUH ? Really Jerry. Then you admit you drafted him to be a blocker. SMH.

Drafting Felix to be a part time player was asinine. You don’t use first rounders to be part time players. You can draft part time players in the 3-7 rounds.

There is no defending Jerry. His draft philosphy has run this team into the ground. He doesn’t know how to build a team. A fact no one can deny.

What facts?

The Rogers example is classic hindsight. Teams draft players coming off of injuries all the time, and the idea that the team didn’t do due diligence on that injury to quantify the risk seems to me a bit of a stretch. Taking those types of risks means that you are sometimes wrong. They were wrong on that one. They were right on Sean Lee – but i suspect if they had ended up being wrong you would say, “You don’t draft LBs with bum knees!”

As for Felix as a part-timer, I think that we were hoping to have a player that wouldn’t just be an above average change of pace back, but someone we would be able to get substantially more active in the passing game than we have. It was a bit of hubris as well, devaluing the pick because we had two that year – “playing with house money”, as it were. But it’s not as if teams don’t do this ALL the time, especially in the mid-late 1st round.

And the Roy example continues to be overwrought. Stupid as the trade was, it has gotten 100x more ink and annoyed posts than any failed first round pick, of which there are many. That trade has to be compared to a “bad first round pick”, not some franchise wrecking mistake.

I think Jerry is a bad influence more because of his constant chatter and willingness to bring a circus atmosphere. As a GM? I think there’s a lot of evidence that he’s giving football people a mostly free hand in recent years, and those football people have drafted somewhere between an average and slightly above average squad.

All the hyperbole is silly.

Shinywalrus - January 9, 2012 reply

Uh no you don't draft a part time player in the first round when a team has so many needs.

You can qualify it any way you want. Rodgers was dumb. His shoulder never healed at USC and he was playing because he could get away with it in college. Horrible pick. Let’s not forget in the same draft we traded down when we could have had Steven Jackson then there wouldn’t have been a need for Felix. Don’t say it’s all hindsight. Most every Dallas fan thought Jackson was gonna be the pick.

Dumb drafting.

I would agree

Realistically, there is NO GM in the league that expects a 4th round pick to be elite (except for FBs, kickers or punters). None. Zippo. Zilch. Nada. Nirt. None.

But, every single GM hopes that they catch ligtning in a bottle w/ a pick here or there that might turn out to be something special, make the team, and be a contributor beyond ST in their 1st 2-3 years. Other than that, 4th through 7th round picks are WISHES.

So, the real meat of the draft (yes, I wrote meat), is the 1st 3 rounds. Many different GMs have different thoughts on these rounds. I remember Tuna mentioning that he’d never trade a 2nd round pick but would trade a 1st and/or a 3rd all day. His thoughts were that 2nd round picks are usually 1st round talent players w/ “dings” or imperfections that kept them out of the 1st round. Injuries, or attitude or some other small issue. I tend to agree w/ Tuna. Guys like DeQuan Bowers – who played fairly well in his rookie year – for the Bucs or our own Sean Lee are good examples.

So, the real meat is looking at draft pics in the 1st 3 rounds. From my research, the Cowboys do just about as well as everyone else in drafting overall. However, since 2002, the only O linemen to be drafted in these 3 rounds were Gurode, Al Johnson, Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, James Marten, Robert Brewster and Tyron Smith. Of those 7 guys, only 1 has been to a pro bowl (Gurode) although I think Smith will get there someday. The other 5 were essentially busts (not a solid one among them).

So, the real problem is drafting O linemen, its grading them.

Real problem ISN'T drafting ...

slight typo

yeah the grading had to change

and it just did, this years OL we drafted finally were searched with a better criteria and format

I still don’t know what the hell they were thinking when they took Robert Brewster, guy was awful

really wanted Patrick Chung Louis Delmas and Mike Wallace that year

Archie Barberio - January 9, 2012 reply

Look at the context of the Felix pick

the Cowboys were coming off a 13-3 season in which they had a ton of Pro Bowlers. The only significant player they were losing was Julius Jones, and they thought they could enhance that “breakaway RB threat” with Jones. Of course in retrospect it wasn’t the best pick, but it was not unreasonable when made in April 2008, and most of us were pleased.

DavidH22 - January 9, 2012 reply

The Felix pick is a sbad as the Bennett pick.

Admitting you spent a second round pick on a blocking te… HUH ?

Felix will go down as one of the stupidest picks in Cowboys history. You just don’t draft first round part timers.

3points for FM

I have to agree there. However, I also have to wonder if they kept MBIII because he sold more jerseys than JJ.? JJ was a consistent 1k back who got 60% (this is an estimation of course) of the carries. Yep that was a total PR move in mho,

mho - January 9, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Blame Bill Parcells for that one

I’m not sure who thought Rogers was the right pick, but Bill Parcells is the one who advocated passing on Steven Jackson and drafting Julius Jones instead. I believe Jerry would have happily drafted Jackson, but he let his “Football People” override him. I know I’m jumping drafts, but Bobby Carpenter was another Parcells pick that really worked out super. We’d have never picked Carpenter if Bill hadn’t coached his dad. If I’m remembering rightly, Bill wanted Spears with the 11th pick in 05, but Jerry overrode him on that one and picked Ware first. I’m pretty sure Ware wouldn’t have been there at 20 but Spears still was. BTW, I happened to love Bill as our coach, but I don’t think you can rightly credit Bill for drafting Witten and Ware, while blaming Jerry for JJ and Bobby Carpenter.

Moondog1210 - January 11, 2012 reply

Chalk up 5points to Shiny!

mho - January 9, 2012 via iPhone app reply

So it all comes down to one question. Did you really shake your head?

Interesting That Mendenhall was not part of the above poll.

Probably because he supposed to be off the board at that point in the draft.

But of course, Felix was a better “compliment” to Marion Barber, who would supposedly continue to be a machine for years to come.

If that isn’t case in point to always go BPA I’m not sure what is.

I wouldn’t try to claim that I thought Johnson or Charles would become what they have, but I DID want them to draft Mendenhall when he slipped.

fivetwos - January 9, 2012 reply

Mendenhall isn’t that great anyway. He is sort of like Herschel Walker but he isn’t as strong as Herschel and no where near as fast.

Jonathan Stern - January 9, 2012 reply

HUH?

He is sort of like Herschel Walker but he isn’t as strong as Herschel and no where near as fast.

Feeling Blue & Silver - January 9, 2012 reply

He has Herschel Walkers negatives as well. He isn’t elusive and doesn’t have much feel for getting past the line of scrimmage. . Herschel Walker could overcome his weak points cause of his speed and strength . Mendenhall less so.

Jonathan Stern - January 9, 2012 reply

What are you confused about Mikellie?

He is sort of like Herschel Walker without any of the traits that made Herschel Walker. Makes a lot of sense to me…… (no it doesn’t.)

doesn’t have enough of what made Walker special

Jonathan Stern - January 10, 2012 reply

Like the ability to be traded for a huge deal including multiple picks and players.

Aaron Burtram - January 10, 2012 reply

Mendenhall was the guy I wanted, but the indications were that Felix would be the pick.

Felix was inretrospect a decent pick,

I also wanted Mendenhall

but not because I didn’t like Felix. I just thought Mendenhall was more shifty and more of an all around rb. Turns out i was right about that part. But Mendenhall hasn’t exactly tore it up either. I guess we can all look back and say daaaaaaaaannnnggggg………….we shouldve picked Chris Johnson!!! Dumb stupid Jerry!

yeah, I wanted Mendenhall too

I guess the theory was we already had a stud and two down back in MB3 and we just needed a 3rd down complimentary back.

Personally....

That year I did not want them to go Running back in the 1st round… Felix or anyone else.

I dont think i ever want them to go running back in the first round.

Mendenhall averages under four yards a carry...

Dude’s healthy but not really all that good. Felix isn’t healthy, but when he is he’s sort of okay.

Sort of okay?!

His career #s rush avg. over 5 yards and almost 8 yards receiving avg.

I get why people dislike spending a first round pick on Felix, but he is certainly more than “sort of okay.”

No

The Steeler O-line is sub-par.

Mendenhall is a beast with all of the skills and instincts to be a premier back.

How does myth no.1 change if the 3 #1 picks traded for Galloway and Williams are factored in?

Blue Eyed Devil - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

It doesn't

three more picks move the Cowboys’ percentage of offensive skill position players drafted up to 21.7%, still the second lowest value in the league.

Scary

to see the # of votes that James Hardy and Devin Thomas recieved.

Feeling Blue & Silver - January 9, 2012 reply

who and who?

Perhaps I have the "definition" of skill positions wrong

I included LBs as skill position players – perhaps they don’t meet the true definition of skill players but if you look at Myth #1 and INCLUDE LBS (Ware, Spencer, Carpenter, Williams, Lee, Carter, etc.) in w/ the other skill positions, that percentage increases dramatically. And that’s a fact.

The myth test should actually be “Dallas drafts skill positions AND LBs more than any other team.” Test that myth and see what you get…

Myth #3 is correct actually. JJ does pick lineman. But look at the rounds they are picked. How many WRs and LBs have been picked in the 1st 3 rounds since 1992. Now, how many linemen have been picked? Big difference. To JJ’s credit, however, he did acquire Leonard Davis to play OG and he did well at that position for a fair # of years. And he was the #2 pick overall.

Myth #4 – whomever claims that is probably not a very good draft strategist. Felix Jones was the correct TYPE of back to acquire at the time given the emergence of MBIII. He was/is shift, he could play ST (return kickoffs) and has great speed and shiftiness. And, to FJ’s credit, wasn’t really known to be fragile.

When I think about FJ I always ask myself, which backs are like him in the NFL that have success. Sproles comes to mind. He’s the 2nd best offensive and ST weapon on the Saints (behind Brees of course) and is that way because of his USE! The Saints use Sproles better than Dallas uses FJ. FJ could probably be better than Sproles if he was used in the same manner – which is to catch passes out of the backfield more often, to return kicks and to be the utility guy in the fashion of Woodhead or Harvin (which I think every good team needs). Sproles has #s of 87 rush attempts for 603 yds (6.9 avg) and 86 receptions for 710 yds and 7 TDs. He also has 40 kick returns for a 27.2 avg (one 92 yd return) and 29 punt returns for a 10.1 avg (1 TD).

Myth #4 – use FJ correctly and he’d be better. FACT.

Thinking Barber was a feature back was a HUGE mistake.

Barber should have been the complimentary back. Bill actually had that one right. Then Wade wanted to show he was smarter than Bill and made Barber the feature back. Huge , huge mistake.

Plus 100

I would agree

but that was the info everyone had at that time. And, you might remember that boards like these were SINGING his praises thinking MBIII was the answer to Julius Jones.

I still say if MBIII was a little more durable, and FJ was used in a pass capacity more than a run (or at least about equal), then both FJ and MBIII have more success as defenses have to plan differently for each being in the game.

Again draft Steven Jackson and viola , there is no need for JJ or Felix. Simple.

He was cooked...

Too high of a workload. Running backs have short shelf lives, the great ones have longer shelf lives but those are rare. LT is the only running back since the Emmitt/Sanders days that I’d call great. CJ is showing his wear, Larry Johnson is cooked, and AP might be done with this knee damage. AP has the best chance to make it but even then he has a ways to go.

Steven Jackson has been a damn good rb for a long while on a bad team....

He would have solved the Dallas rb problems. However we didn’t go that route. So instead of solidifying a position we waste a first rounder on Felix. We waste a few years on Julius. We make a slow complimentary back the lead back and stay with him 2 years too long…….get the picture now ? This is why this team fails.

Not quite

I’ve never heard of LB’s defined as skill position players. Anyway, just to make sure, I did write offensive skill position players when I talked about specific numbers.

You are partly right thogh, the Cowboys did draft slightly more linebackers than the average team. According to Violetti, their 14.1 LB percentage is the 11th highest in the league.

Interestingly enough

Here we all are again, discussing drafting yet another LB in the 1st 3 rounds…

thats because of 2009

that draft is killing our depth right now

but we need another ILB, no way around that

Archie Barberio - January 9, 2012 reply

2009 draft

yes, it was bad.

But Carpenter, Spencer, Burnett and James weren’t 09 draft picks. None of them were/are elite (although James, Spencer and Burnett have been at least solid at times in their career).

Dallas has drafted 7 LBs since 2004 w/ a 3rd rd pick or higher. That’s 1 a year. Yet, the only elite LB on the team is Ware. The jury is still out on Lee and Carter and everyone (not me) is clamouring for Spencer to leave via free agency and for the Cowboys to, yet again, spend a high draft pick on a LB.

I'm not sold on a LB so high this year.

I think maybe they should try to do it by committee by drafting a couple of guys and let them rotate in. Specifically they should look for motor guys with smarts. Maybe look at Cam Johnson of VA, Chandler Jones from SYR and Shea McClellin (sp) from Boise in the 3-5 rounds and let them compete with Butler. Get a rotation going of guys that have some skills, smarts and a motor and see if we can solidify other positions along the way.

Those Guards that FITAT listed above were all good players for a long time. DeCastro in the first and then add numbers on defense. We can use help everywhere on that side.

timani - January 9, 2012 reply

I'm in agreement

but OLB and CB picks are sexier…they sell more tickets than an interior lineman.

actually interior linemen indirectly would sell more tickets

because they would make our offense much more explosive.

I dont understand this olb pick. i realize you all hate spencer like hes the worst thing that ever happened but really…we still need a second ilb. carter is far from proven at this point. even if he is legit we still have nobody behind those two….but at olb we have an overall good to decent trio. by letting spencer go it just creates another hole that has to be filled. with how awful our secondary has been, lack of production from any of our down lineman(yes, i include ratliff. he needs to move to end or at least share time with this teams future DT) and our interior offensive line play, i dont see how any fan of this team would be happy with an OLB selected high in the draft.

Carter will be more proven than anyone we draft this year

i hope so

You think the jury is still out on Lee?

Not me. If he’s not elite, it’s only because he has only been the starter for a year. But I think he’s thisclose to being elite.

DannyWhite - January 9, 2012 reply

I'd wait

we were all saying the same thing about Jenkins his 2nd year…

He just couldn't stay healthy...

Lee’s technique is downright incredible. His instincts are off the chats too…he’s the guy I’d have HS LBs watch.

Lee is the real deal...future all-pro for years to come

...

Lee’s pretty good, James had a couple of good years, and Burnett’s stuck around in the NFL for some time. I recall reading the grades on Burnett when he was drafted, I liked the pick quite a bit. Carpenter…yeah, he was a bad pick, as was AJ Hawk. Those Ohio State LBs were awfully overrated. He’s doing okay with Detroit but god he was awful with Dallas. I dunno, you get a solid starter out of a second or third round pick…I’d say that’s a good deal.

Yeah, really the 2009 draft sticks out like a sore thumb

Kinda like for the Dolphins the ONE year they made the playoffs recently. Draft got them Buehler and he was a good kick off specialist for a year and a half or so. BFD. Downright terrible. One of the worst drafts for any non-Oakland team in recent memory. I don’t think we’ll see a draft that badly at least until the next decade, if ever.

Go back and look at the Goodrich draft.

Jerry can pull some doozies.

No will deny this

But we never would’ve had to live through this MBIII, Felix Jones, Trashard Choice era if Parcells had just drafted Steven Jackson in 2004. There is no hindsight with this. The Cowboys desperately needed a RB as Troy Hambrick was not the solution. Parcells blinked when Jackson fell to him, traded the pick, and took Fragile Jag Julius Jones in the 2nd rd. Oh btw, on ESPN’s Parcells Draft Special last April, Tuna with a straight face said that if you draft a RB in the first round it has to be a guy like Steven Jackson. Of course Mike Tirico didn’t call him on his decision to avoid drafting him and take Julius instead.

Rohpuri - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Yeah, I was soo pissed when he actually fell to us and we passed on him

Like when Steven Jackson fell to us and Parcells

traded the pick to Buffalo. Buffalo picked J.P. Losman. With the pick we got from them, we picked Julius Jones. Pretty sure that was all Parcells and not Jerry.

Sorry about the reply...I didn't read the one from Rohpuri above.

I wonder...

If Tuna did that just to show everyone he had the power in the DC Offices’s?!!! If so, he’s a Jackass! SJ even said all he dreamed about as a kid was playing for the DCs, and Bill passed when that was our 2nd greatest need (the first being QB).

mho - January 9, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Really????

I would disagree with you on that part. FJ is not as good a Sproles or even close. Sproles has better vision through the pocket and a better ability to make DB’s and LB’s miss. He also finishes off his runs better.

Sproles has been given more open field opportunity

He has just as many receptions as he has carries. That’s not the same for FJ.

Quit thinking of FJ as a RB – think of him as a WR who can run between the tackles if needed.

TJ

I have to agree with you!

mho - January 9, 2012 via iPhone app reply

I agree Tyrone

When Felix was picked, I wasn’t against him specifically as a pick, just mad that we picked him in the first round. The pick should have gone toward Oline, but that’s just me speaking hindsight. But I did truly want us to pick Oline after we picked Jenkins.

Felix would have probably been there for us to pick in the second round.

The issue, as I have always argued picks, was never what player was picked, but where he was picked and for what reason.

Example: If you know you need to build your Oline, use your picks wisely to upgrade the weaker part of your team and address the problem areas.

My problem with the Felix pick was we needed other things more than a RB. It was a luxury pick when we needed to not go the way of “Jerry’s shiny new toy” and make a real meat and potatoes pick like Oline. The fact that Felix hasn’t lived up to his draft status just makes me (and other fans I’m sure) more angry at the pick and second guess it. But I believe you are right, because Felix should be used the way you are describing, and he isn’t. Which makes me even more angrier at the pick.

The bigger question out of all of this? Does the Cowboy organization have good drafting insight and scouting, decisionmaking going into the draft? It’s not the picks so much as how they fit into the scheme and how they are being used. This is where Dallas fails (my opinion).

The Dallas Cowboys have lost they’re groove when it comes to getting on a roll and picking more than a couple of exceptional players in one draft. Does anyone remember the Dirty Dozen?

DallasPalace - January 9, 2012 reply

I hear you Palace

but I don’t think the jury’s out on FJ just yet. RBs typically have some of the shortest careers, but FJ probably has another 3-5 years. I’ve always argued his utilization was sub-optimal in that he should be more of a Percy Harvin / Reggie Bush / Danny Woodhead / Darren Sproles type where he get the rock in much more open space.

He is being wasted in the current system so I understand your point.

No, Felix wouldn't have been there.

The Titans are on record saying they would have taken Felix and not CJ2 if we had passed on Felix.

Okay, He wouldn't have been there

And just because the Titans say they would have drafted him doesn’t mean they actually would have. If you read the earlier comment Rena, I mentioned to Tyrone that I believed Felix was a luxury pick, not a necessity. The point is, they did not need to draft a RB in the first round of that draft.

In that draft, I thought the Cowboys were going to draft CJ2 actually, but again, RB was not as a necessity as drafting OL (my opinion). They woukld have done just as well drafting a RB in the 2nd or 3rd rd, and drafted an OLineman in the first.

Actually, Dallas drafted Tashard Choice in the 4th rd. of that draft.

DallasPalace - January 11, 2012 reply

Value of O Line

Watching NO line play this weekend brought home the value of protection.

Brees had 4 seconds on many plays , and clear throwing lanes.

Contrast that to Tony having to escape the pocket at 2 seconds , if not sacked, and we can see the difference between the teams on the Offensive side.

Eli, is also benefiting this year from not being sacked due to line play.

No, its obvious that Den has a great OL they made it to the playoffs running the ball.

But something has to be said that Kiesel, Hampton and Smith were all out.

thebigham - January 9, 2012 reply

They still had Woodley and Harrison.

Ryan Clark was out too

Ryan Clark holds that secondary together.

And the Broncos stepped up and won......

The o line was magnificent.

Seems to me fans are a little miffed that Dallas wasn’t in the playoffs. You had two qb’s get their first playoff win this weekend. One was a rookie and one was a second year player. Amazing to watch those teams and to watch Dallas. Texans and Broncos rally around their qb. They played with heart and a sense of urgency. They played with mental toughness. Compared to Dallas who is mentally weak and hasn’t rallied around anyone.

Sad to see the state of the Cowboys. They are a misguided inept soft team.

Don't mistake Denver w/ Dallas

Denver has TALENT in the secondary. Jenkins, Scandrick and Newman might possibly be the worst threesome of starting DBs in the league. Jenkins was about average (made about as many plays as he missed or was 50/50), Scan was about average as well but Newman was poor. He had 4 INTs but none were due to him reading the QB, jumping a route and making a spectacular play – his INTs came to him in that they were poorly thrown balls or the WR ran the wrong route. Newman missed, by far, more plays than he made (about 70/30). When you combine, average + average + poor = well below average.

plus 100

Actually:

Newman did jump one route, he took it in for 6. Just saying. I agree however that Newman has severed his ties here in Dallas with his play this year.

he jumped another one against the giants(that i probably could have taken to the house)and his brick hands couldnt pull it in lol

Tyrone , I'll bite......

Does Dallas have the mental toughness of say Houston and Denver ? Do you see them play with an edge in an underdog role ?

Seven out of ten times they lose that game...

I love how in Football we take one flukey game and extract all these false narratives out of one extremely fluke performance. Football is the ONLY sport where this happens, if the Nationals take two of three from the Yankees one year no one says that the Nats are on the up and up rallying around whoever is the name de jour there. If the Heat drops a game to the Wizards no one starts talking about the Wizards’ mental thoughness or the Heat’s weakness (okay we do make fun of Chris Bosh and call LeBron a loser, but we only do that because it’s fun…not because we actually mean it) Why do we do it in football?

Goes to show

That even the best OLB duo in football can’t get pressure when the DL isn’t playing well. THe loss of all their DLine starters certainly hurt the Steelers pass rush. Then again, the Cowboys had more sacks this season than the Steelers…

Perhaps Dallas pass rush isn’t as bad as people think and would be even better if WRs weren’t wide open in under 3 seconds.

Woodley was out the second half, that hurt them a lot

Was he out the entire 2nd half?
In any case, while the Denver OLine did play well (against a depleted Steelers def) a ton of credit has to go to Denver off-coordinator McCoy.
He called a great game, using options, misdirections, and playaction to really slow down Woodley and Harrison and to confuse Polamalu and the secondary.

Tebow

Had some terrible throws, but he also had a few beauties. I do give him credit, but he isn’t at the top of my list.

Seems the NFL DCs seem slow to react to new and different things.

Innovation is not the NFL's strong suit.

Tom Ryle - January 9, 2012 reply

Tebow is the new Wildcat formation, it worked great until the DC figured it out.

and don't forget Ziggy Hood

Pharm.D. - January 9, 2012 reply

The Cowboys have Ware, Ratliff, and Lee...

So by your measure the Cowboys should have enough for the defense right? Three good players and the rest of your starters are out or suck…should be good right?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2012/under-pressure-violence-rams

Brees and Romo’s sack rates are similar for < 2.5 seconds.

Romo’s sack rate for < 2.5 seconds is better than Eli’s.

their sack rates for > 2.5 is different though.

to put it into numbers, romo was probably sacked 6 times in < 2.5 seconds.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/1/1/2673817/sturm-on-the-qb-position-and-the-trenches

Cool that still doesnt mean he had a clean pocket.

thebigham - January 9, 2012 reply

I linked this to you elsewhere, but here is Sturm on why sack rate doesn't

tell the whole story, as you point out:

Romo wasn’t sacked on the plays where his collar bone was broken, his rib was broken, or his hand was damaged.

think about how sack rate < 2.5 seconds is relevant to Sturm’s comment.

and equally important, think about the distribution.

Good stuff

Thanks for the references.

Also look at 2 seconds, but a clean pocket. Brees on some of the graphics had
a 4-5 yard cushion to throw from.

I’d like to see the same comparisons for Tony.

Other observation

Brees overall sack rate is 3.5% – Tony 6.5 % – almost double.

Brees is protected, Tony isn’t.

Some of this may be the timing of routes, but to me it appears we aren’t giving him
a cushion from which to throw, like NO, or some other teams

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure

here’s some context

So how do we determine a quick sack versus a long sack? Over that two-year-stretch, the average time of all sacks is three seconds, but a more accurate representation may be the median time, which currently stands at 2.8 seconds. After all, a couple of extremely lengthy sacks can adjust the average time up, but there is a pretty fixed limit on the lower end of how quickly a sack can happen — there are 64 sacks over the two years that took six or more seconds. There are only two sacks that were recorded in less than one second.

The median sack time has hovered between 2.7 and 2.8 seconds throughout the two years of the tracking.

Unless a quarterback falls down or drops the ball, a sack of 1.7 seconds or less generally involves a rusher coming completely free. On the other end of the spectrum, once a quarterback holds the ball for three seconds or longer, he’s had time to make his drop, survey the field, and work through his progressions. If it takes longer than that, either the play has broken down or the quarterback is trying to buy time because the play has not developed as he had expected it to.

interestingly, Romo had a pretty good rate of > 3 second sacks between 2009-2010, at 2.18%. Peyton was the best … Peyton basically is never sacked after 3 seconds 0.32%.

but then this year Romo’s rate went up to 3.2%.

what I saw was Romo got very cautious after the Det game and I though he took sacks he could have avoided.

my eyeballs tell me that once Brees gets to 3 seconds he prepares to throw the ball away if the pocket isn’t clean.

Why is the ball held over 3 seconds?

Is it because Romo kept the play alive scrambling where another QB would have been hit earlier?

Blue Eyed Devil - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

We are in agreement on this one

I think Romo needs to calm down his trust in evasive maneuvers. Sure, it does bring about some of the best highlights of his career, but thinking you can get away every time is dangerous. Take the Giants game for example, the safety was Romo’s fault. Yes, Free got beat by JPP, but replay shows Witten is open for a quick 5 yard pass but Romo thinks he can spin away from JPP (he does it so often) and instead of a short pass completion the Giants get a safety.

It is a slippery slope, but Romo needs to improve his judgement in getting rid of the ball quickly instead of trying to avoid the sack every time. It is the final part of his game he needs to improve.

This is Garretts offense Keg

The biggest issue I have with Garrett being Romo’s coach is this:

Do the Cowboys concentrate on the short passing game? Do they concentrate on the run?

If they did, our Oline would not be in the state it’s in right now. Our coach is supposed to build the team to execute the offense, and know where the weakness on offense is.

Because Garrett concentrates on downfield passing too much, he has not championed the short passing game and run offense till now. Those two things should have been a priority years ago.

Yeah, things are changing, but it still is a little too little a little too late. Now we are looking at a rebuild project.

By the time Garrett gets his act together, we will be on the downslope of Ware, Witten and Romo’s career, and it all boils back to Jerry.

DallasPalace - January 9, 2012 reply

As I understand it, Romo is coached to make his progressions from

long to short.

And that Fernie

is the problem.

Nothing against that progression, but I will say it if no one else will:

Garrett’s pass to set up the run doesn’t work with the players he’s got,

And by the time he gets the players to run his scheme, it will be time to rebuild the team again.

Is Garrett incapable of running a different scheme that is better suited for the players he has? Or is it that he doesn’t believe in changing to work with what you have?

Yeah, we need defensive upgrading now, but that doesn’t absolve the offensive mistakes that cost us at least 3 games this year, on top of the bad clock management Garrett has shown.

DallasPalace - January 9, 2012 reply

not true, we get some good OL this season

He’ll have the players to run his scheme

I'm Skeptical Terry

Your giving Garrett a free pass as to whats happened already, while I won’t. Need I remind you the situation Jerry created?

Okay Terry, I will remind you- remember Garrettr was hired before Wade? It’s a little hard for me to believe when someone says Garrett hasn’t had input as to what has been happening to the offense/team since he’s been with the Cowboys, especially since he was annointed as “Head coach in waiting” long before he became the head coach.

The reason why I am legitimately skeptical about Garrett, and probably his biggest critic here at BTB? Simple- time.

Time is his biggest nemesis now. He has been with the team for quite awhile now, and that is one aspect of “time” that I am referring to, with the slant of “how much time does this guy need?” to build whatever it is he’s trying to do with his players. He doesn’t have the players to run his scheme- that’s obvious even to him now. He should have figured that out by now. Maybe it is Jerry’s meddling that has gotten in the way. But whatever, the results speak for themselves.

But the other aspect of “time” is an even bigger nemesis to him, and that is the “time” he has left with the core players of this team. Let’s face it- by the time he get’s these players to run his scheme, Ware, Romo, and Witten may be shells of they’re former selves.

If you see Garrett making mistakes with the clock, and game management blunders next year too, then you’ll understand what I’m talking about. I am confident he will find good players to replace bad ones that should never have been signed to long term contracts, and let go a long time ago. But will Garrett be able to mold this team into a legitimate contender?

I’m skeptical. He needs help from good assistant coaches. The biggest mistake Garrett made was not doing whatever it took to bring Dom Capers here when he had the chance. Garrett is not a defense type of coach.
Don’t you remember reading about Garrett trying to do something with Jerry about bringing him on?

Oh, there are other Garrett blunders I could mention ( like not going after Drew Brees), but I like Romo too. But Brees is the type of QB to run Garretts scheme way more than Tony is- even I know that.

DallasPalace - January 10, 2012 reply

Bledsoe was phenomenal in that regard

Romo has a tendency to hold the ball.

He makes plays when he does, but he also takes some unnecessary sacks. The strip sack in the Giants game was a good example. He squirmed away from pressure, but kept on holding and holding the ball, when he could have thown it away. That was a bad sack to take. Overall, he had a good game, but that was not a good play.

Mr._Mulligan - January 9, 2012 reply

Can't take the playmaker in him away though

Thats part of what makes him so great and special….he’s gotta play that playground street ball many times to make a play out of nothing.

Playing too conservative is just as bad sometimes as not playing a little reckless.

Ths is really interesting

And it makes me wonder a few things, especially about the < 3.0 category:

1. How many of these were instances in which Romo extended the time by avoiding initial/ earlier pressure?

2. How many of these are “on Romo”—i.e., because he didn’t see an open receiver or was confused by coverages for a moment or because he held the ball waiting for a deep pattern to come open when a shorter pattern was open—in short, because of (even slight) indecision? This is where Dallas’ offense suffers in comparison to that of NO…

3. How many are on receivers that struggled to get open?

rabblerousr - January 9, 2012 reply

especially about the < 3.0 category

did you mean < 3.0 or > 3.0?

I would say it’s interesting to look at Jay Cutler.

Martz loves to send 4-5 players into the pattern. that results is a ton of quick sacks, as you might expect. the > 3.0 sec sack rate might surprise you.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say through all this.

Do you think Romo took more ‘long sacks’ this year, holding the ball and being afraid to let it loose? I’ve been searching for a similar table to the one you posted from 2009 or 2010, but to no avail. The only list I found gave median and average sack time for 2010, but it’s sort of a small sample because of his injury last year.

I think he is afraid. It appears to me that he thinks too much nowadays. But what do i know? its not like i can see the receivers down the field with the crappy tv broadcast camera view. but i sure wish he would just chuck the ball up to bryant more often when hes in trouble.

For a reason why he doesn’t, see the interception against Revis at the end of the Jets game. Dez, for all his flashes of otherworldly play, is too inconsistent. I don’t think Tony trusts him.

Something happened there. He's become much more reticent

to take off and run. At some point, a couple of years ago, I thought I’d heard that the coaches wanted him to stay in the pocket more, but I’ve wondered if injuries have taken their toll. He’s perfectly willing to scramble to buy time to throw the ball down field, but he much more rarely these days makes longer first downs with his feet. I guess, to be fair, he may have been leery of running vs. the Giants because of the hand. Harder to cover up and protect the ball on a run if you’re having trouble with your hand?

Oops, my reply was intended to answer your post right below this one.

Fan in Thick and Thin - January 10, 2012 reply

now that this thread is dead I can answer without igniting a firestorm.

I think it’s almost certain that Romo hold’s the ball too long. It appears that its a 2011 problem though.

Look at the distribution.
1.1% < 2.5
2.4% 2.5 < 3.0
3.2% >3.0

Romo wasn’t getting sacked a lot in less than 2.5 seconds but he was getting sacked a lot in more than 3 second. in fact, the actual sacks must have been 6, 13, and 17. That’s the distribution of a QB who’s holding the ball too long.

When confronted with the evidence that Romo didn’t suffer a lot of quick sacks, people try and explain it away that he’s dodging the first defender resulting in less quick sacks, more long sacks. But the simplest answer is usually the best. If Romo doesn’t have quick sacks and does have long sacks he’s probably holding the ball too long.

The point with Cutler is to show that getting quick pressure doesn’t lead to long sacks. The simple answer, Chi’s scheme allowed a lot quick pressure → Cutler takes a lot of quick sacks. But Cutler knows to get rid of the ball fast. His long sack rate (2.2%) is less than his quick sack rate (3.0%).

Big Ben who’s notoriously hard to get down is similar. Quick sack rate (2.7%) is almost the same as his long sack rate (3.0%).

How many times did you see Romo get rushed from the pocket quickly

But wasn’t in a position to just throw it away because he was scrambling?

Very Often.

thebigham - January 10, 2012 reply

Don't let facts get in the way of stats!

i think romo did get happy feet a little big at the end of the season(last philly and giants game for sure) where(i suppose) there was nobody open and he did create time in the pocket but he just danced around and danced around. the kid needs to take off and run like he did when he first burst on the scene.

Agree that he should run more on occasion. Look at the play where he got the he penalty for throwing the ball past the line of scrimmage in the NYG game – looked like he had some room to run but he was looking for a big play. Admittedly, we’re picking nits on this issue.

Scratching my head

I can’t say I ever heard 1 & 2.
Our “neglect” of O-linemen is more of a condemnation of which linemen we draft than how often we draft them. James Martin and Stephen Peterman (who had a playoff showing over the weekend) come to mind.
I was a Felix fan, but there should be a rule in the Football Bible that you NEVER draft a player to be a permanent backup, especially in the first 3 rounds.

Lord Humungus - January 9, 2012 reply

Hang around the draft threads, you will hear 1 & 2 a lot.

Does anyone have the "bust rate" for each team?

I saw some chart a few months ago on it and the Cowboys were actually above average when it comes to drafting. I think we tend to think if a player doesn’t turn out like DWare or Witten, we think they’re a bust. Not defending Jerry or anything; he’s not a good talent evaluator and does best when there’s a Parcells around

ScottB1985 - January 9, 2012 reply

not sure about bust rate stats

There’s Ryan Leaf busts and then there’s Felix Jones, Marcus Spears, and Anthony Spencer as a #1’s busts.

Here’s a link to show the 3 year success rate from 2009-2011 for dradft picks still playing(some on other teams) where Dallas is 3rd worst and well below average mainly on the weakness fo 2009 draft.

http://www.drafttek.com/ConsolidatedNFLDraft-stillwithteam.ASP

sorry here's the link

Thanks. The chart I saw went back to the early 2000s

and the Cowboys did better than average on drafting, thanks mostly to Parcells, of course. I just hope that JG is a good talent evaluator and can have the same input on the draft that Jimmy and Parcells did. All signs so far are positive for JG.

ScottB1985 - January 9, 2012 reply

Wouldn't call them busts. Every first roud pick can't be an All Pro.

These players, while not elite have contributed,

agreed

I wasn’t calling those 3 out as busts but pointing out that “bust” is a subjective term,other than the Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russells that I think we all agree on.

Yes there was a story on it earlier this year.

The Cowboys were average or slightly above average. Only 3 teams were clearly above the rest in drafting players. And the story mentioned how every teams fans always complained how bad their team drafted vs other teams.

There is no Myth when it comes to Jerry and drafting

He’s just not good at it. Take out Jimmy and Parcells picks, because we all know they were their guys, Jerry has stunk up the place.

And in my opinion Garrett will be responsible for turning the team around via draft through the years not Jerry. The Tyron pick was all JG 3 – lineman was all JG.

If JG allows Jerry to be Jerry in the war room get use to suckage

CowboyWay - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

We are used to 15 years of suckage. About to be 16.

haha

Well hello sunshine, I missed your lollipops and rainbows…

TheCowboyWay - January 9, 2012 reply

He is sunshine. He shines light on the truth.

Read my sig.

Hmmm fs

What happened between 1982 and 1996 those are just forgettable years???

Touche.

1983-1991 are forgettable and led to the sale to Jerry.

And as I have said many times, all the credit Jerry earned from 1992-1995, he has already spent from 1996-2011. He gets no more credit from me. He has to earn it again.

My sig uses hyperbole to contrast our best 17 year stretch to what Jerry has done the last 16 years. 14 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES (at least) in 17 years is amazing. 2 wild cards since 1996 is, according to Barkley: “turribull”.

Can't mention years where we were champs. Only negative is allowed.

Umm, I did mention years where we were champs.

Between 1966-1982, we were champs twice and went to 3 other super bowls.

Garrett gives me some hope

I think you could see it in last year’s draft, There was shift in the way the Cowboys go about the draft.

Ummm...JG wanted Felix cuz he already had The Barbarian. I hope to eat crow but

JG is not a good HC or even OC. He is adequate and against bad teams and OCs, he does well.

I just don’t understand the faith folks have in JG. After being a fan of the Boyz for 35+ year and watching how dismal this team has performed the past 15 years, I’m staring each season with doubt about each coach and player. Prove yourselves.

bresson - January 9, 2012 reply

What is that based on?

Picking FJ? Dallas has consistently been in the top half if not the top quarter of the league in offense – both passing and rushing – w/ JG at the helm. He has developed/cultivated Romo into a very good QB. He has dealt w/ the attitudes of TO and Dez as well as the consistent injury to his starting and backup RBs each year. The only thing wrong w/ the Dallas offense is the O line. Everywhere else on offense, the team is fairly stout. Now it seems JG is looking to shore up the line as well.

Again, not sure what you’re basing JG’s performance on, but it sure isn’t production.

This is balls out stupid.

Good god, the entitlement attitude is infuriating. You know that JG is not a good HC because of a single year with no offseason?

Brilliant.

And he’s a terrible OC, right? So the stats should reflect his offensive incompetence, yes? Bottom half of the league average or something similar is what we should expect then, correct?

danielt - January 10, 2012 reply

It's like the tortoise and the hare are teaming up

Jerry the Gambler looking for the big score
JG methodically building

How one doesn’t shoot the other before it’s all over will be the amazing part to me

HAHA

Well said

I understand the sentiment

But I really don’t think its fair to highlight his faults but give no credit for his successes. Regardless of the HC, he is the GM and has his hands in every draft. In fact, as the GM he is responsible for bringing Jimmy and Parcels into the fold in the first place.
Besides it was already proven that the war room is more of a round table type set up then a one person affair.
You can’t fault the guy for being a control freak autocratic a-hole and screwing up draft after draft, but exclude the years that it actually worked out…

Jerry screws up all the time, but at least give credit where credit is due.

TheCowboyWay - January 9, 2012 reply

I give Jerry credit for the early '90's. And I take credit away for 1997-2011.

Doing the math, Jerry is in debt. He has spent all the credit he earned and then some.

This pretty much sums it up

Agreed...this analysis should focus only on 1994-2002

which was truly gawd-awful, and 2007-present, which has been mixed bag

DavidH22 - January 9, 2012 reply

Myth 5 got me

I didn’t really limit it to Texas, but I really thought the Cowboys picked up more guys from Big12 schools. Not even a majority from the SEC, which was my “backup” myth. Learn something new every day, I guess.

dteowner - January 9, 2012 reply

Didnt see a reply to my fact

Shinywalrus

Cuban Cowboy - January 9, 2012 reply

Nicely done, OCC

Questions;

If you look at 1st and 2nd round picks and qualify them as “high picks”, how do the Cowboys compare to their peers when comparing their investment of high picks on Offensive, Defensive and combined linemen?

Also, what % of late round O-linemen (4th and beyond) ever start in the NFL?

Here you go

Question 1: The Cowboys picked a total of 8 linemen with their 41 first and second round picks.

1994: (Rd. 2, Pk. 46), Larry Allen
1995: (2, 63), Shane Hannah
1998: (2, 38), Flozell Adams
1999: (2, 55), Solomon Page
2002: (2, 37), Andre Gurode
2003: (2, 38), Al Johnson
2004: (2, 52), Jacob Rogers
2011: (1, 9), Tyron Smith

That’s 20% of their “high picks” over that period spent on offensive linemen, 6th highest total in the league (league average, 16%).
Only 15% (6 picks) went to defensive linemen (DT, DE, NT). That ranks 27th in the league, where the average is 20%.
The two extreme positions cancel each other out when looking at combined linemen: The Cowboys are 22nd with 34% of their “high picks” spent on combined linemen, just marginally off the NFL average of 36%

Question 2: I’ve arbitrarily limited the period to O-linemen drafted in the fourth round or lower between 2000 and 2009 in the regular draft. Here’s how many at each position started for at least one season:
Guards: 42% (42/100)
Centers: 39% (19/49)
Tackles: 31% (40/127)
Just don’t go looking for Pro Bowlers in this group: only 6 of these 276 received a Pro Bowl nod (so far).

OCC

Not sure where you got your #s from but I counted only 34 1st or 2nd round picks since 1994 (that doesn’t include years where they traded down like in 2009). I did get the same # of O linemen drafted in 8 total, so the percentage of O linemen drafted actually improves to 23.5%.

However, what’s really of note is that 7 of those 8 O linemen were drafted 7 or more years ago as the last 1st or 2nd round pick they used was in 2004. Seven years w/o a 1st or 2nd round selection is a long time to go even if you have a GREAT O line (which the Boys had). If you start from 2000, that’d be 4 o linemen out of 23 or a 18%.

When you couple that with the fact that they haven’t really drafted O linemen all that well (last pro-bowler drafted was Gurode 9 years ago), then it’s obvious why the Boys are in the condition they are.

The data, as in the original post, is from 1992 – 2011.

So the data would suggest that if you want pro bowl linemen (and I think we do), you'd better draft them early

Is that “more true” (queue tanstaafl) for O-linemen than other positions?

Yes, this is "more true", but perhaps not for the reasons you would expect.

For the last eleven years, the first Guard taken in the draft was taken in the 27th spot on average. For Centers, that average is in the 40s. If you draft one of these guys high, say … uhm … with the 14th pick for example, you had better be sure that that guy is a future All-Pro, because if not, chances are you’ve massively overspent for a performance that you would have gotten with a late second, early third round pick.

Is it still over spending in the 2nd year of the new rookie wage scale (as compared to before)?

I know in a few years the new wage scale will be the normal (to compare draft value points), but this draft is still a huge discount over just two drafts ago.

Is okay to “reach” in these first couple drafts by comparing them to the the recent past or do we have to immediately adjust to the new normal?

I didn’t mean overspending in terms of dollars, but more in terms spending a first round pick on a performance you potentially could have had with a second rounder.

Okay. But what is your opinion on my question?

You adjust to the “new normal”, of course. The teams that adjust to the new realities the fastest will come out ahead. Always have, always will.

Question...

Larry Allen is arguably the best lineman to ever play for the Cowboys. He was drafted 46th overall (2nd round); the 10th offensive lineman overall. He made the all rookie team, was an 11 time pro-bowler (3rd ever to make the pro bowl at 2 different O line positions) in 12 seasons, 7x all pro, SB champ, and made both the 1990 and 2000 all decade teams. He has recorded a bench press of over 675 lbs and is known for running down a LB after an INT.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but if it would be possible to know that Larry Allen would be as good as he was – would you have drafted him at 14?

Has there ever been an OG to play the game who’s performance warrants a top 15 pick?

The answer for me is yes without hesitation.

Allen and Steve Hutchinson would warrant a pick that high.

In some mock drafts Decastro is picked to be off the board by the time we Pick ay #14. That’s how highly rated DeCastro is.

I would pick Allen in the top 10 if I knew he would be that good.

And DeCastro is rated as the 2nd best player in this draft on 1 board I have seen, and in the top 3-5 on others.

Tyrone, Bruce Matthews.

19 year career. 13 or 14 pro bowls and a hof’er. Top 10 pick. Would you want him with a top 15 pick ? I would in a nano second.

Every draft pick is a hope

No one knew Manning would be Manning but that didn’t stop the Colts from taking him 1st.

Bottom line – you draft people you think will are worthy of drafting at that particular spot (or for that amount of $).

Scouts were pretty confident Peyton Manning would be really good.

They feel the same way about Andrew Luck now.

Scouts didn’t think much of Tom Brady because they saw nothing athletically and performance wise that suggested he would be really good.

Rohpuri - January 10, 2012 via mobile reply

Well, there was a wide range of opinions about whether he or Ryan Leaf was the better QB

starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 - January 10, 2012 reply

and Ryan Leaf showed to the Colts he was not fit for the league

as he gave very immature answers during multiple pre-draft interviews

most notable one is how you would spend your signing bonus?

Manning: “Buy moms a house. Pocket the rest, etc. etc.”

Leaf: “Call up my boys and hit Vegas for a week.”

He was one in a million

Would you take Max Unger at #14?

Not really.

Mike Munchak top 10 pick. Hof’er. John Hannah top 10 pick, hof’er.

football mensa - January 10, 2012 reply

So, what you're really saying is that you woudln't take an OG at #14 unless he was a HOF'er

…which, by definition, is next to impossible to determine at the time of the draft. So, I’m assuming you say we should spend it on a different position. Am I reading you right?

With hindsight...no doubt I take Allen

However, I am not big on taking that risk with a #14 without knowing for sure…which can’t happen.
I think a lot is based on the fact that virtually any off. lineman could become a great guard, but other positions in football require rarer athletes and body types. SO when you get to the draft, there are simply more candidates you could groom into a dominant guard than there are big and fast corners and receivers or quarterbacks and runningbacks and Ware like pass rushers.
Long story short, I don’t think Dallas should draft a guard at 14. Especially when you consider how many young guys are already present to groom and with Holland spending an offseason with Woicik. We can use an upgrade, but there is stuff to work with and that 14 could be better spent elsewhere.

That is a myth

Blocking in confined space takes a great deal of talent. Some OGs are better at it than others, obviously, and those that are warrant higher picks.

Agreed, but there's a ceiling, unless that's your one true position of need

Dallas has more impactful holes to fill.

Didn't say it lacks the need for talent

The body type and “physical specs” for dominant guards have a much greater diversity than most other positions. 6’2" 320, 6’5" 350, the type of athlete that can become a dominant guard is not as rare as D. Ware and D. Revis.

Kegbearer - January 10, 2012 reply

Or Tyron Smith

Kegbearer - January 10, 2012 reply

Absolutely true

But drafting, until this year, has always been different. Contracts for 1st round players used to be MASSIVE. JaMarcus Russell received more by way of guaranteed money than Andrew Luck will receive for his entire contract. Interior lineman were picked later as owners didn’t think the value of paying an interior lineman over 4 million a year (as a rookie) was worth it.

Last year, Robert Quinn (DE) was the 14th overall pick to the Rams. His contract was about 5 yr / $10 million. I would gladly pay that for an OG that’s currently being compared to Hutchinson.

History has proven that better players are drafted earlier. No brainer there. So, the Cowboys have to decide what’s more important to them right now – an interior lineman who’s ranked as the BEST OG in the draft and probably gonna be a multiple pro bowler or an OLB who’s could very well be the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th best OLB in the draft w/ less projected upside.

Good info. So, basically, we just need the Cowboys to buy a clue when

it comes to evaluating O linemen and then not “overspend” because they know they don’t know how to pick anything other than the sure thing a 14th spot should get you. Does that make sense? If they do buy a clue, then the Cowboys should take a pass rusher with that pick?

If philosophically you believe in BPA and

If DeCastro is there at #14, clearly he would be the BPA. By not taking him because he’s a guard, you’d be going against your own philosophy and would be taking a lesser player because of need or the position he played.

Fair enough. Good point.

...which is why you NEVER take an OG at #14

a great Guard can really help you win

witness NO. So yes if you have a talent Like LA you take him in the first.

In todays world of coverage LA would be taken in the first Even little schools are well scouted now.

What killed us was the 2005 to 2010 period when we did not use either a first or second rd pick and only a couple of thirds. THAT is what is haunting us now

burmafrd1944 - January 9, 2012 reply

Why the L.A. comparisons?

What has DeCastro done to earn that?

The new SB mock has DeCastro going top 10.

Actually at #9 to Miami atm.

9. Miami Dolphins, David DeCastro, OG, Stanford

DeCastro, to me, is the second best offensive lineman in this draft. Comparisons to Steve Hutchinson are on the money, and he improves the Dolphins interior line instantly. Guards never used to get drafted this high because the old rookie salary schedule made them among the top paid players in the league at their position. Now, the Dolphins can score an interior lineman cheaper than they can in free agency, and also get a better player than any available free agents.

Good

Let them have him. Let those pass rushers fall to us baby!!!

We better hope he Melvin Ingram (OLB) or Nick Perry (OLB) or one of those top DBs

falls to us.

I’d rather get the best Guard in the draft than the less of a sure thing pass rusher or DB. If we take the next Anthony Spencer or Terence Newman in the first rd and DeCastro is still available, I will be angry.

Rohpuri - January 10, 2012 via mobile reply

The point is this

The draft is like taking swings at a pitch.

You can try to make contact (DeCastro) or you can swing for the fences (attempt to find a stud at a more impactful position). If you’re GB or New England, you can make that luxury pick in the high 20’s. If you’re an 8-8 team with problems in both sets of trenches and a top 15 pick, getting the next Steve Hutchinson (which I am not sure he is) might not make you that much better.

Thats simply not true true at all

Getting our OL to elite status would mean our entire offense would reach elite status which means we become a legit contender.

Pats, Packers and Saints are proof you don’t need a great defense if you have a great offense.

I would consider DeCastro swinging for the fences to.

All G’s are not created equal, just like all OT’s aren’t. Consider the difference between Tyron and Free. 1st round pick vs middle round pick I know, but which would you rather have?

One.Cool.Customer - January 10, 2012 reply

The new SBNation mock also spells Terence Newman

as “Terrance” Newman. So I’m not much inclined to put a lot of weight in what they’re saying right now.

LMAO

Maybe we drafted the wrong Newman!!!

What about traded picks?

OCC, when making these calculations, did you consider the high-round picks that were traded for certain skills position players (e.g. – the Joey Galloway and Roy Williams trade). That would put three more first rounders going towards wide receiver, which could give us a different view on the numbers.

Combine_Warrior - January 9, 2012 reply

good point

I answered that a little further up - no difference.

Three more picks (e.g. – the Joey Galloway and Roy Williams trade) spent on offensive skill positions over the years would move the Cowboys’ percentage of offensive skill position players drafted up to 21.7%, still the second lowest value in the league.

See sig below

Aren't you supposed to look at the front sight?

Lock ’n Load.

The biggest problem with Jerry's Philosophy is he suffers from cognitive dissonance.

He believes talent on the team is much better than it actually is. Hence he drafts role players and injured players in the top rounds believing they can complement or have time to heal before needing to man the field full time.

I believe this has also led to drafting role players (round 3 – 7) with terrific athleticism but questionable football IQ or instincts. JJ wants to recreate the magic of Ratcliff and other low round picks who’ve blossomed into top players.

Then there are the free agents. Dallas has been lucky with Romo and Austin but this has created the illusion that UDFA can blossom into top talent.

Overall, draft management on this team seem remote and divorced from reality and draft accordingly. They need to recognize the team for what it is: in the same league as the Browns, and until recently, Bengals and Cardinals.

bresson - January 9, 2012 reply

1 n done for both my teams huh? Especially the Giants???

How two wins and on to the final 8 for both of em!!!!! Cowgirls! And Houston has as many playoff wins as yall in the past twenty yrs Burgers

AHoustonGiant - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Sigh, it must troll/clown time.

Haha wow.

First, you’re trolling. Second, 20 years? Try 2 years. In the last 20 years, we’ve won 3 super bowls. Good luck joining the big boys, Houston. You’ve got a ways to go.

CotySaxman - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

You have two favorite NFL teams?

That tells me all I need to know about you.

Creasy729 - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

agreed

somebodyquiet - January 9, 2012 reply

Here's a fact...fix the damn defense and OLine.

Just like the Danny White era…we’re wasting the Romo era.

CaliFanInTx - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Danny White led us to 10 playoff appearances.

I

That can't be true

He only started for 7 or 8 years and we didn’t make the playoffs all those years in the 80s

I beg your pardon?

Read below, White only started 9 years

and lead us to playoff appearances 5 times

I love Danny White, but he only started 9 seasons from 1980-1988.

And took us to the playoffs 5 times, 1980-1983, and 1985.

thought so

His post-season record is 5-5. I didn't say years, I said appearances.

That is just wrong. Ask anyone what "playoff (post season) appearance" means and they will tell you it means "per season".

Not “per game”.

Did Wade get credit for 2 “appearances” because he got us a bye? LOL.

Wade got credit for win with that bye. DON'T SELL STA-PUFT SHORT!

Seanrude - January 10, 2012 reply

It stands to reason that JJ is only considered a crappy GM

Because of the following moves he made:
1) Trading for Joey Galloway after Irvin’s career ended and right before Aikman’s career was about to end.
2) Trading for Roy Williams, and spending the remaining 2009 draft picks on special teams players.

The players that Parcells used to turn Dallas into a playoff team in 2003 were mostly Jerry’s Kids whom he drafted in the latter part of the 1990s thru 2002. He made some good picks there.

Yes Parcells gets a ton of credit for his 2003 Draft which helped set the foundation for team up till now; however lets not forget it was Sean Payton who convinced Bill to sign Tony as an UDFA that year.

We all want to say Parcells brought the magic drafting elixer, however, aside from the 2003 draft, taking Ware with 1st pick in 2005, Barber in 3rd rd of 2005, and finding Jay Ratliff in the late rounds, how many of Parcells’ post 2003 picks panned out?

And for the record, let it be clear, Parcells should not be given credit for the DeMarcus Ware pick. He wanted to take either Marcus Spears or Shawn Merriman ahead of Ware. It was Jerry who stepped in and shot him down.

Why are some of you blow hards so quick to dismiss Jerry as a GM but sing Tuna’s praises for turning the team around, when during his 4 years, he only nailed 1 draft. Shouldn’t Bill take criticism for his mailing in 2004 and 2006?

What is a fact to me is this:
1) Jerry Jones wants to win badly
2) Jerry Jones’ mistakes as Owner/GM center more around hiring the proper head coach
a) Not putting ego aside with Jimmy Johnson
b) Letting go of Chan Gailey after 2 yrs and instituting the Dave Campo 5-11 × 3 era.
c) Hiring Wade Phillips as Parcells’ replacement.

If you have the right coach whose committed to the franchise and is someone the players will respect as a leader (not Campo and Wade), then an organization will get the most out its players.

I believe the current regime with Garrett and Jerry will work out. We just have to be patient.

Rohpuri - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Nice job.

Let’s point out Bobby Carpenter, and also the power house he built in Miami as evidence of his godly drafting abilities.

Can’t kill the Jerry haters. Unless you, you know, kill ’em.

CotySaxman - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

agreed

+1

yehti - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

that RW trade just hurted this team sooo badd

This team use to be 2-3 years ahead of everyone now it seem as if its behind now..

You just cant throw picks at scrubs and except them to pan out once they come to Dallas..That is bad judgement.

lostar2009 - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Hmmm ok I hear the a lot... devoting the rest of the round to ST

How do you figure? We need a SS since we did not even have anyone capable of playing that position aka Alan Ball 2010… drafted 2… always looking to improve our pass rush we draft 3 to fill that position 2DE and an OLB 3/4 type We needed some help on the OL added 1 in the 3rd. Our kicker (Folk) deserted us in 2009 we needed a kicker and took 1. Then picking up CB Mike Mickens CB might have been BPA in 7th again addressing he secondary and Manuel Johnson WR in the 7th to push Tree. Everyone says 2009 was a ST draft I just don’t see it. Don’t think it was a good draft but when you don’t have a 1st and 2nd… then you have to take shots.

3 69 Jason Williams OLB34 Western Illinois
3 75 Robert Brewster OG Ball State
4 101 Stephen McGee QB Texas A&M
4 110 Victor Butler DE43 Oregon St
4 124 Brandon Williams DE43 Texas Tech
5 143 DeAngelo Smith CB Cincinnati
5 166 Michael Hamlin SS Clemson
5 172 David Buehler PK USC
6 197 Stephen Hodge SS TCU
6 208 John Phillips TE Virginia
7 227 Mike Mickens CB Cincinnati
7 229 Manuel Johnson WR Oklahoma

The draft that makes my eyes hurt

LOL Sorry just trying to figure how everyone keeps calling it a ST draft.

Because that is what Jerry called it if I recall correctly

Just to clarify...

anytime you don’t have a 1st and 2nd pick … don’t count on getting the desired results. He went for volume for a reason… 2nd round pick is about 15% probability against 30% for first round… getting a serviceable player not pro-bowl, much less for pro-bowl player. Now getting extra picks was a chance… and maybe not all Jerry’s no one really knows.

Odds were he could pull 1 great player out of it… going OLB and DE on 3 of the first 5 picks and then QB and OG on the other two… none which will be on ST too slow… maybe the OLB… just don’t see to many DE running down on KO. Then you take two S and CB both were areas of need at the time… a WR and Kicker… now that I can see as ST.

The Cowboys HAD a 2nd round pick in 09, I believe

they traded down.

Yeah didn't get Max Unger.

It's one quote from a bad draft that people keep harping on.

Hopefully Butler and Phillips can contribute something to this team next year, but realistically the guy that Jerry wanted wasn’t there so he just decided to trade down and throw mud at the wall and hoped some stuck. I guess I can’t blame him for that…either way, I doubt he trades all his good picks for an underachieving WR anytime soon.

Thassa...

…rec!

danielt - January 10, 2012 reply

All of these stats are great.

The problem I have with JJ as the GM is that He Is Not A Football Man.

He was making decisions by committee not because he had any inherent knowledge of the system, players,etc, but because he was an owner with a big EGO. At least with JG making personnel and coaching decisions there’s some hope.

Remember, if you hire 10 great chefs to prepare a fabulous 10 course meal and you then choose a non-enophile to pair the wines with each course of the meal, you may end up pairing incredible food with Thunderbird, Blue Nun, and other worthless spirits.

Coors Light, Whataburger and fries, now that's a fabulous meal.

LOL

What's on the Burger?

You never had a Whataburger?

I never did, are they a burger chain down south?

Yeah, old fashion burgers, thery're the best chain burger IMO.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm whataburger

Next time i visit my brother in SC I'll have to try one

Unfortunately, the closest Whataburger to SC is in Jacksonville, FL.

okay, maybe when I vacation in Orlando this fall...lol

By the way, any of ya'll have a Tilted Kilt near you?

Great menu, lots of TVs, and hot waitresses. Blows Hooters out of the water.

tiltedkilt-dot-com

There are only about 56 nationwide right now, but they are expanding fast.

I've heard good things about them and Twin Peaks...

Didn't say I never had a whataburger.

I’m pretty sure you can have anything you want on them. I was just wondering what condiments you had on yours? Didn’t mean to start a whole conversation about it.

There's nothing wrong with starting a conversation about burgers (and beer) on this blog.

Hell, I wouldn’t mind more off-football talk here. There are a boat-load of sharp and witty guys and gals here that I would love to banter with.

Actually we have had long discussions about Wataburger before.

yep, they have one next to Heinz Field in Pittsburgh

Simply outstanding sports bar, the best I’ve ever been to

Like fast food burgers?

If so then yeah, it’s them, In N’ Out, and Five Guys. However pure chains, I gotta go with Red Robin.

How about Rush's?

Can't say I've had the pleasure of hearing about them?

Besides, BtB needs an open “food thread” every night so we can stop fighting. I think everyone here has the same tastes in food even if we disagree about everything else.

Fighting? Who's fighting about food?

We’re being good bro’s and informing each other about all the good stuff out there.

Whataburger kicks the crap out of In-N-Out, that is for certain

Seanrude - January 10, 2012 reply

Bye the way...

Tebow still sucks!

I thought you liked Tebow?

I like him........as a TE though.

I was thinking FB

He'd be a great FB, but his talents would be wasted, not enough playing time.

or touches. View him as potentially in the Witten, Gronk, Graham category.

Where were you last night when all the Tebow worshipers were ganging up on me?

I never dreamed there were so many BTBers who loves Tebow and can’t understand why.

How can you not like the guy personally. I was watching the game at a friends house, ergo no computer

to join the thread. No matter what he did last night, unless Elway sees potential to correct his footwork and positioning and will work with him, he’ll never be a QB in this era of NFL football.

Lots of BTBers have pointed out that the interior line of the Steel curtain was reduced to cheese cloth last night, so they must realize that his performance, while brilliant, was against backups in many cases.

As I said ^, he's the new Wildcat formation in the league, when the DCs figure him out, it's all over.

Tebow is agreat guy, just not a good passer

I think he could be successful with a great defense ala Roethlisberger

He'll never be a Big Ben, IMO

His mechanics are horrible. Elway, after he pulled those games out in the 4thQ, said he would personally work with him in the off-season. Felt he could help correct his body posirtion and footwork. Said he can’t change the mechanics of his throwing motion. Tebow has been passing that way since he was 5. Then, before yesterday’s game, they were ready to pull him for Quinn after the last few losses, if he continued to play poorly.

Don’t know what Elway’s thinking now, but maybe Tebow has gotten a reprieve after yesterday’s performance.

Roethlisberger doesn't exactly have great mechanics either

He gets the ball out quickly. Rivers too. He has the weirdest release in football. Looks as

if he’s putting a shot, rather than throwing. His quick release is what saves him.

And what pisses me off to no end.

Eli is not elite, but damn, he has a quick release.

/That’s what she said.

I strongly disagree with not being able to change his mechanics

Looking at the top 5 qb’s this year, Brees, Rodgers and Romo have all drasticaly changed thier mechanics since coming into the NFL. It is not an easy process and takes time but it is all about muscle memory. When changing a plyers mechanics you choose to work on 1 or 2 things at a time like ball position on drop back and elbow postion through the throw. Now it takes about 10k repitions to change the muscle memory then you add another piece or 2. It is a progresion and does take time but many QB’s and other players have gone through tis progression.

Birddog26 - January 9, 2012 reply

Forgot to add Brady to the list of QB' who changed thier mechanics

Birddog26 - January 9, 2012 reply

If pro golfers can make major swing changes, Tebow should be able to change his delivery.

The other problem is his relaese. Way too slow. He takes forever to get rid of the ball.

Just too many things to change with his throwing motion.

He holds trhe ball to low in his dropback so he has a windup to throw

Not hard to fix, just takes time and training reps. He works with an offseason coach he can do it. Shave that 3 to 4 10ths of a second from his delivery is not that hard. He is a competitor with a strong work ethic, he is an easy guy to work with. I think he will hire a private QB coach in the offseason and improve.

Birddog26 - January 9, 2012 reply

On the winning touchdown, the replay was incredible.

It looked like it took ten seconds for him to windup and throw the ball. I know it was slo mo, but it just accentuated how long it takes him to deliver the pass.

Tom Ryle - January 9, 2012 reply

He's completed 126/271 passes, 47.3 % completion percentage

12TD/6INTS QB rating for 2011=72.9

He needs a lot of work if he wants to play QB in this league.

Surely Elway knows he's not a NFL QB.

This playoff win will set Denver back a couple of years if they think Tebow is a quality QB and don’t draft or sign a real QB.

Tebow was hurt by thte lockout like a lot of the young guys throughout the league.

I will be interested to see if Ego Elway will keep his word to work with Tebow in the off season.

StrosSouth - January 9, 2012 reply

he has little choice unless they sign a vet qb, quinn aint the answer.

What ever gave you that idea?

Great post OCC.

The Razorback myth has to be the most annoying of them all. And the sad thing is that you still see respected draft gurus make comments about Jerry and his supposed love of drafting Arkansas players. The “shiny toy” theory is a close second as far as the level of annoyance to me personally. Dez and Tyron are the first offensive players I think Dallas has drafted in the first round since the last century. Reading some comments you would think we draft and WRs every year.

Creasy729 - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

*RBs and WRs

Creasy729 - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

I never thought ithe Arkansas myth was really said in a serious way, but more out of sarcasm.

Now that being said, I wouldn't mind drafting a few of the current Razorbacks.

and some LSU/Bama D players.

That's a given

I just wouldn’t knock JJ at all if they drafted some of the current Razorback players.

Whenever I say it, it is sarcasm.

I think there are a substantial number of league observers out there that say it factually.

Creasy729 - January 9, 2012 reply

If you let enough morons say it

I bet they’d engage in revisionist history and suggest it was Dallas who took a WR in the first round 4 times in a 6 year stretch (IT WAS ACTUALLY DETROIT!!!), because of Jerry’s enfatuation with WRs.

Rohpuri - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

If I had a dollar for every time I have read about Jerry drafting shiny toys, I could buy the Cowboys.

That is, if Jerry would sell.

If you include the draft picks wasted to get Roy Williams and Jeoy Galloway, Shiny Toy Theory becomes less of a myth

Seanrude - January 10, 2012 reply

No, it doesn't.

This has been addressed multiple times earlier in the thread by OCC.

danielt - January 10, 2012 reply

Pattern:

Ignorance intentionally avoids enlightenment.

Translation: People who say foolish things avoid reading the comments, fearing they may be proven wrong, but instead post comments to spread, and perpetuate, their ignorance.

CotySaxman - January 10, 2012 reply

Parcells The Draft Genius vs Jerry The Draft Idiot

OCC’s post has inspired me to put the draft picks in a comparison, using the drafts post-Jimmy Johnson.

1994: Larry Allen
1995: 0 Impact players
1996: Randall Godfrey
1997: Dexter Coakley
1998: Gregg Ellis, Flozelle Adams, Mike Meyers (decent role player), Darren Hambrick (decent player for 3 yrs)
1999: Dat Nguyen
2000: 0 Impact players
2001: 0 Impact players unless Quincy counts
2002: Roy Williams, Andre Gurode, Antonio Bryant

Parcells 2003-2006: Only counting drafted players
2003: Terence Newman, Jason Witten, Bradie James,
2004: Julius Jones, Patrick Crayton (can we really consider the 2004 draft a success?)
2005: Marcus Spears (Bill’s pick), Marion Barber, Chris Canty, Jay Ratliff
2006: Jason Hatcher

Looking back at the 2004 and 2006 drafts, it’s painful to know you only had Julius, Crayton, and Hatcher to show for those two years.

Post Parcells:

Jerry’s picks
2007: Anthony Spencer, Doug Free, Nick Folk
2008: Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick
2009: Victor Butler, John Phillips
2010: Dez Bryant, Sean Lee
2011: Tyron Smith, DeMarco Murray

I won’t call Jerry a terrible talent evaluator. Am I a huge fan of Spencer and Felix Jones? Not really, but they weren’t bad picks either. Interestingly what I noticed is that every offensive lineman drafted in the Parcells era failed. In the post Parcells era, Jerry’s drafted two staters to the Oline.

Yes Parcells did a nice job picking players in 2003 and 2005, however, I believe he did the franchise a disservice by mailing in the 2004 and 2006 drafts.

The mistakes made in 2004, 2006, and the ST’s draft of 2009 is the reasom this teams sits outside the playoffs in 2011. The 2004 and 2006 group would’ve been able to contribute in 2008 when the team was hit with injuries, and by 2010 those guys should’ve become established contributors. Instead we only came away with 3 ok role players in 2004 and 2006.

The 2010 6-10 season and the 8-8 season this year are by products of wiffing in 2004, 2006, and 2009. There wasn’t enough depth on the roster to mask injuries and replace underachieving starters.

Rohpuri - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

I'll say this

Jerry has become a much better talent evaluator since the early days where a good draft was just finding one good player. Now we’ve been able to find at least 2 players, even in the horrible 2009 class.

Rohpuri - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Jerry doesn't evalaute players, his scouts do and he listens to them

There has to be a disconnection somewhere

Either the scouts don’t know to scout or Jerry just doesn’t know how to listen to the scouts.

probably more the latter I'd say

Roh

Not sure how you missed this one but WARE was drafted in 05 as well.

That's easy.

Parcells was completely against taking Ware.

CotySaxman - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Ware was Jerry's pick

Rohpuri - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

BP wanted ware

just not with the first pick; he was afraid Bellicek was going to trade up for Spears.

Guys, no one thought Ware would be the monster he has become. And SPears had a lot of support from the scouts

burmafrd1944 - January 9, 2012 reply

Then it stands to reason

That the disconnect is a result that the scouts need to do a better job of evaluating talent.

Rohpuri - January 10, 2012 via mobile reply

That was Jeff Ireland and Tom Ciskowski making those boards

I knew that

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7443140/sources-secondary-coach-dave-campo-return-dallas-cowboys-2012

Sorry, I misspoke

Rohpuri - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Very well said and evaluated

Admiral Dallas - January 9, 2012 reply

Campo's not coming back!

Praise be to Tebow for defeating the Steelers and banishing Campo to the Arena Football League