Jeff Zelevansky - Getty Images
The fates of Tony Romo and Eli Manning have crossed several times as their team's rosters have transformed around them.
Back in ancient times, long before Twitter was the rage and young men still believed that wearing their girlfriend's jeans was a bad idea... yes, back in 2007, the Dallas Cowboys thought they had it all. New head coach Wade Phillips had taken over a roster led by Bill Parcells and navigated Dallas to a 13-3 regular season record and the top seed in the NFC.
The offense was impressive, the defense was solid and the team had only truly been stopped twice during the regular season; once to the eventually 18-0 New England Patriots. They also lost to the Eagles in December and then the regular season finale to Washington; although they pulled their starters from a meaningless game.
Of course, things didn't go as planned that '07 post-season for Dallas. After soundly defeating Bye Week (h/t to Wade), they were upset in the divisional round of the playoffs by the eventual Super Bowl champions, the New York Giants. The Giants defeated the aforementioned Patriots in said SB, as we all know, and four years later the two teams are rematching in Indianapolis on Sunday.
One of the interesting facts I've heard mentioned in the nauseating build-up is how much different each of the combatant's roster is from their 2007 version. The Giants only have 16 players remaining on their roster from the '07 championship team. The Patriots turnover has been even more dramatic, only retaining seven players on their 53 man roster.
It made me wonder a few things. Is the Giants number normal? If these two franchises, only four years removed from the season's final game are turning over their rosters this much, is Dallas doing the same? Are the Cowboys married to their past far beyond what they should be?
Follow the jump to see the skinny.
I admit, I went into this exercise expecting to be able to blame the Cowboys front office for not being proactive in moving away from former stars and above average players. It turned out to not be the case; at least no worse than the Giants who missed the playoffs the last two seasons before this recent run.
This chart takes a look at the final rosters for both the '07 and '11 campaigns, with a bit of a caveat. 2007 was a remarkably healthy campaign for Dallas, unlike 2011. Players that ended up on the 2007 IR list weren't in the team's future plans, unlike members of the 2011 IR. The pseudo depth chart arrangement will reflect that.
Players highlighted under '2011' were also on the team to end the 2007 season.
| Position | Count | Final 2007 Roster | Count | Final 2011 Roster |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| QB | 2 | Romo, B. Johnson | 3 | Romo, McGee, Greisen |
| RB | 5 | Barber, J. Jones, T. Thompson, Hoyte, Anderson(IR) | 7 | D. Murray(IR), F. Jones, P. Tanner (IR), Sammy Morris, Tony Fiammetta, Shaun Chapas, Chauncey Washington |
| WR | 6 | Owens, Glenn, Crayton, Hurd, Austin, Stanback | 8 | Austin, Bryant, Robinson, Holley, Ogletree, D. Harris, A. Holmes, Radway |
| TE | 3 | Witten, Fasano, Curtis | 3 | Witten, Bennett, Phillips |
| OL | 10 | Adams, Colombo, Davis, Kosier, Gurode, Free, McQuistan, Marten, Berger, Procter | 10 | T. Smith, Free, Kosier, Holland(IR), Costa, Dockery, Kowalski, Parnell, Arkin, Nagy(IR) |
| DL | 7 | Ratliff, Canty, Spears, Bowen, Hatcher, T. Johnson, Ferguson(IR) | 7 | Ratliff, Hatcher, Lissemore, Spears, Brent, Coleman, Geathers |
| LB | 8 | Ware, Ellis, Spencer, James, Ayodele, Burnett, Carpenter, Rogers | 8 | Ware, Lee, Carter, Spencer, Brooking, Butler, Albright, James |
| CB | 6 | Newman, Henry, Reeves, Oglesby, Ball, Jones | 5 | Newman, Jenkins, Scandrick, Ball, Walker |
| S | 4 | R. Williams, Hamlin, Watkins, C. Brown | 5 | Sensabaugh, Elam, McCray, Church(IR), Silva |
| ST | 3 | Folk, McBriar, Ladouceur | 6 | Bailey, Jones, McBriar(IR), Ladouceur, Buehler(IR), Forbath(IR) |
| P. Squad | 9 | R. Ayodele, Bartel, Q. Butler, A. Coleman, Everett, Hannah, M. Jefferson, M. Smith, T. Smith | 6 | M. Butler, Callaway,Bra.Carter, Lemon, T.Williams, Wilson |
Here are some interesting notes:
So, does Dallas hold on to past warriors too long?
They might have, but the purge of August 2011 seemed to be course-correcting. Some of the most highly expected 2012 cuts include names from the list of 15 remaining '07 roster members. Bradie James, Anthony Spencer, Terence Newman, Marcus Spears, Kyle Kosier, Alan Ball and Mat McBriar are all roster churn possibilities (expectations?) for a Dallas team looking to improve on an underwhelming 34-30 record over the last four seasons.
0 recs | 176 comments
That bye week was crushed.
The roster kind of churned itself in ‘08, due to injury. We were playoff hopeful for the whole season, so no roster churn. But ’10 should have begun week 7.
This year was wierd, our youngsters did not ful S&C, so I don’t think we should have churned too much. We stayed pretty competitive.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 31, 2012
These names
if you’re looking to lose weight, post them on your fridge and read them each time you find yourself reaching for the chow….
Procter, Ball, Reeves, McQuistan, Marten, and pretty much the class of 2009….
dunkman - January 31, 2012
if you want to never have kids
post a picture of McQuistan next to your wife
AustonianAggie - January 31, 2012
No kidding
Wow. Carrot Top ugly.
dunkman - January 31, 2012
Ughhhh…what a nauseating callback…Carrot Top…ughhh
accidental innuendo - January 31, 2012
Gingers have no souls.
fs65 - February 1, 2012
lol
mho - January 31, 2012 via iPhone app
WOW! 34-30
over the last 4 seasons. And yet there are still some who won’t acknowledge that this is a MEDIOCRE team. The first step is admitting you have a problem. Once that’s accomplished you set a DIFFERENT course of correction, rather than repeating the same mistakes. And as much as I blame JG for his ineptitude it’s becoming more and more clear to me that JJ himself, for his coaching hires as well as his drafts and free agency acquisitions, is where change must start . Unfortunately that is not going to happen, probably for a VERY long time. So as a fan I am stuck with a mediocre team that promises very little in the near to middle future. And if for reasons unknown the team does achieve success it will, in my opinion, be in spite of any “process” not because of it. This team is in DIRE need of a COMPLETE makeover. It starts with the front office, and continues with coaching and scouting.
stubabe - January 31, 2012
disagree, Garrett has the team heading in the right direction
Remember, Rome wasn’t built in a day
Terry - January 31, 2012
Rome One was!
: )
Rome One - January 31, 2012
My full name is
Rome One Day!
Rome One - January 31, 2012
super agree
ratware - January 31, 2012
Disagree
just look at this year and the number or near misses, last minute missed kicks and defensive let downs -where we still almost won. And it would be us in the Post Season and the Gmen are at home. Not saying we make it as far as them since they somehow magically know when to peek, but if they don’t block our kick and we pull out that win or almost anyone of the other 5 that were so close…and or the Patriots don’t allow the 1 minute drill of the Giants to score on them and the Giants don’t even make it to the playoffs….. so if the Gmen win the SuperBowl then the Patriots can look at it as their fault the Giants got into the playoffs in the first place.
Things were way too close to just label us as no good
LiveNDieBlue - January 31, 2012
Coaches don't get paid to almost win. Except Wade of course.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
I agree...
but if you access where the team is you would naturally look at how we played. And any objective observer would say we were in All the games except the Philly games.
Therefore we couldn’t be Terrible and thus the coaches don’t have to scrap the whole team and start rebuilding….and it is because, while not winning a lot this season, we also were not far away at all. Agreed?
And if so then the coaches, unless they aren’t getting paid, are getting paid for almost wins (since we had a number of those games….but I realize you meant they wont continue to get paid if they don’t win)
LiveNDieBlue - January 31, 2012
LiveNDieBlue, can't we replace
“Just look at this year” with “just look at the past 5 years?” Doesn’t it fit remarkably well? I’m rooting like hell for JG, but this past season’s hijinx were all too familiar. Perhaps if it was reduced I’d be a bit more optimistic, but the sheer volume of bufoonery certainly didn’t inspire confidence.
And IMO the Giants just don’t know how to “magically peak;” they simply have a degree of focus, a will to win and an amount of fortitude that is greater than ours—and most teams—for that matter.
Starred4Life - January 31, 2012
Being in the Navy for the last 11 years has...
taught me quite a bit about a few things.
1. Nobody is a perfect leader. Nobody!
2. Even the greatest leaders cannot change a bad culture overnight!
3. Almost is never enough. But progress, even a little, will get you to your goal!
4. You can be the best, do and say all the right things and it will still not be enough for some people!
So let’s suck it up buttercup and let the new regime prove itself first!
mho - January 31, 2012 via iPhone app
Agreed
dunkman - February 1, 2012
very well said!
I think the arrow is pointing up!
CoachGary - February 1, 2012
Aye Aye
staubachfan - February 2, 2012
the magical part is a feeling statement prompted by 2007
I agree with you that it is their ability to focus and begin to will themselves to pull things together and get it going such that they hit all cylinders… whereas we don’t. The compliments (as in complimentary angles) is that for the past 3 years the Gmen have fallen apart in December, but when they do (what feels like magic) pull it together (now twice) they make a Superbowl run…. astounding (and thus the magic thing)!
LiveNDieBlue - February 1, 2012
Cleveland kicked Belichick to the curb because they felt he sucked and couldn't be a successful coach for them...
It was a crucial mistake to fire Tom Landry and hire Jimmy Johnson especially after his 1-15 first season…
Sean Payton was relieved of his play calling duties with the Giants and booted from the Giants because he was ineffective.
How many people admit to be wrong about these coaches now that they are successful?
I think Garrett might deserve a chance to be successful…he’s going about it the correct way…creating a consistent methodology to how we do things…and trying to rebuild the winning very culture that existed once…
Fans will be fans…they bitch and moan about everything that is wrong…asserting that they know more than those that have earned the ability to call the shots…Cowboy fans are the worst of the bunch…they are both impatient and arrogant…We are a storied franchise and need to be as patient of those other storied franchises to provide an environment for success. Everyone is entitled to their opinion…just doesn’t mean that opinion is worth anything…
CaliFanInTx - January 31, 2012
Amen.
BrickTop - January 31, 2012 via mobile
this +1 kagillion
mho - January 31, 2012 via iPhone app
Brady made BB.
football mensa - February 1, 2012
Belicheat made Brady....
Brady hasn’t done anything spectacular since 2007..been very Manning like in fact…..3 years of one and done in the playoffs…..they have no wideouts and have to use their TE’s to move the ball…..If the Giants generate any kind of pressure at all Brady will be flopping around on the ground begging for a flag every time he gets hit….
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
What happened when Brady went down in '08? That's right, Cassel came in and won 11 games...
…and tell me, how does Cassel look now out of New England? Your right, coaching and having good systems in place mean nothing…
CaliFanInTx - February 1, 2012
+1000
Exactly correct. Teams win not qb’s or coaches but the point about Cassel is spot on!
CoachGary - February 1, 2012
other way around.
In fact when they won sb brady was avg
thebigham - February 1, 2012
rec'd and an AMEN......
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
What is the diference for BB and SP before and after their success?
Better players. The best coaches can’t do anything with average players. When the best coaches add good players to their good system, practices and play calling, they get good teams. It takes both a good coach with good players to make a good (successful) team. And as for Cassel, he was surrounded by good players and a good system with a good coach that was already established, so he did well.
This is why I am so upset with JJ. Roster churning is not about how many of the same players are still here or not here. It is about WHO replaced the ones that are gone. JJ and the staff he hired just can not evaluate and acquire a team full of good players (O-ring theory). If the Gnats and Pats can replace as many or more players than we did in 4 years and make it back to the SB, why can’t we get there at all in 16 years?
I am tired of the “just wait a couple more drafts” BS. We’ve been waiting too long. And this is not arrogance, it is frustration.
fs65 - February 1, 2012
yeah ok!
While JJ has made horrific mistakes with this team NG just took over! 8-8 isn’t bad after the collapse of ‘07. C’mon man! Last years draft was great (thus far) and they have a direction. Which I might add has not happened since Jimmy left! If in three years this team has/is not competitive then call for a full sweep! Stephen seems to Have learned from JJs’ mistakes and somehow got us under the cap with a ridiculous contracts. Up to 20 mill this year in Cap room and I wonder how much we’ll have next year to get the upgrades we need. What FA did we sign last year that we are obligated to for the next 2 years? None! They were stand ins until we could get replacements! Scough!
mho - January 31, 2012 via iPhone app
Dallas hasn't brought in a player like JPP.
That’s the difference between the Gmen and Dallas. Gmen add to their strengths. Dallas never has a plan. They have also drafted db’s the last few years. Jerry is determined to get by wiith 4th and 5th round db’s. Now Dallas will need to spend a few picks in this draft on db’s.Dallas doesn’t draft d linemen and it shows. What does Dallas do they wait till the whole oline is old then try to rebuild it in one draft.
But hey we got wr’s. We can’t stop the sisters of the poor on d but by god we have wr’s.
The Pats are just flat out smarter. They have no legit number 1 wr. So they take Gronkowski and make him an undefendable weapon. They throw a lot of short passes to the slot wr. They play to their strengths. Conversely on the defensive side of the ball you look at Dallas and we continue to play a 3-4 that doesn’t work. Every Dallas fan on earth would be happy with 2 superbowl appearances in 4 years but jerry can’t do it.
It ain’t hard…….to figure why we haven’t been to a superbowl
football mensa - January 31, 2012
Absolutely agree, Mensa.
The front office of the Pats, Kraft, let the smartest man (also the biggest cheater) in the league, run show.It’s as simple as that. It’s the lack of a true braintrust that the Cowboys suffer from the most.
stubabe - January 31, 2012
so ware is not a plsyer like jpp?
Demarco murray is pretty good as well and we did well with lee also.
The arrow is pointing up imho.
CoachGary - February 1, 2012
agree
ratware - January 31, 2012
I want to agree with you but I don't because
we took Jason Hatcher as a project. We took Chris Canty as a project with an eye injury.
And we took Spears in the first round. And while Demarcus in called a Linebacker he is always on the line rushing the passer.
But I do agree we need to focus on the two lines. Philly does that and it usually gives their qb a fair amount of time to throw. The Gmen have been lucky/good with their line, both O and D and look where they are.
I have been calling for D line for a while cause I think you build there and it affects both the passing and run game while on the flip side if you build defensive backs first then they mostly only afffect the pass game and then only one side of the field (and only 1 of 3 or 4 of the receivers). SO, I couldn’t agree with the feeling and sentiment more!
LiveNDieBlue - January 31, 2012
other than Philly...
Who ran the ball well on us?
mho - February 1, 2012 via iPhone app
second Giants game
ary201 - February 1, 2012
yeah but into the 3rd quarter it looked like, and felt like, we were coming back...then
things changed and it was the straw that broke the camel’s back
That’s why I did not list that game, because I did not feel like it was out of hand until late
LiveNDieBlue - February 1, 2012
yep!
mho - February 1, 2012 via iPhone app
Dallas never had a plan you say?
09 they felt that special teams were lacking, draft 12 guys all with that in mind after bringing in Joe D after firing B Read.
10 they focus on BPA (Dez, Sean Lee, AoA)
11 they carpet bomb O Line
12 they are making it clear the secondary is a priority.
The problem hasn’t been a plan, their draft picks haven’t panned out.
Yes the patriots looked smart drafting their two TE beast, but didn’t garrett try to envision the same thing with Marty B in 08?
You make it sound like the FO is picking players with the vision of a two year old playing chess, but history disagrees with you.
Rat-Pack - January 31, 2012
But you are correct
in saying that Dallas waits until a problem arrives before turning their attention to it before addressing it while NYG, NE, Phi and GB are proactive with their roster and anticipate issues well in advance.
That’s what I’m afraid is gonna happen this year: a top 15 pick is the time to snatch a pass rusher, but it sounds like a CB will be the focus.
Rat-Pack - January 31, 2012
You don't devote an entire draft to special teams.
When you do you get 6-10 and 8-8 because you have no legit starters in the making. If that was their plan it was a f’ing stupid plan.
10 was a good draft.
11 draft was soley because they were in desperation mode. Desperation means you have failed in previous drafts.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
so Dallas wait until an area is a problem before taking action...
so in two years they draft 2 ILB’s to takeover for the aging starters but yet Dallas didn’t need ILB’s at the time becuz James and Brooking were just fine as the starters….but now you are complaining that we used a pick on a player that we dint’ need when in fact they WERE proactive about a position of need before it absolutely needed to be addressed….make up your mind please….they seem to be trying to fix what ails the team but becuz it isn’t how YOU would cure the poison its all wrong,…
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
And because of their drafting they are 8-8 with one playoff win in 15 years....
nope , I can’t really see the defense of their strategy.
football mensa - February 1, 2012
i wasn't talking about history but rather their attempts to correct it....
you say they don’t address positions until zero hour…so now they draft two ILB’s with high picks to take over a position in need before zero hour and all of a sudden they did it wrong this time….the luxury of the old system was that you could draft high, let them sit and learn, play them in key situations, adapt them to the league so that they aren’t overwhelmed and destroyed in the process….the new draft process is play em now regardless of draft position and if they don’t pan out immediately they are busts and the FO are idiots….I’m still not understanding what you are getting at….this is a new coach, new direction, new approach with an owner thats more than willing to admit when he’s made mistakes and is trying his best to rectify them…you hate JJ i get that but to totally dismiss what JG and Stephen are trying to do is just blind hatred…
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
yep
mho - February 1, 2012 via iPhone app
Just for the sake of conversation
let’s say I agree with you. Now, does JJ muck the whole thing up by doing what he has done over the last 4 years (if not longer)? Remember when Wade took the team to 13-3? Did we not all think “at last, the road to redemption”? What happened? This organization needs a completely different approach to EVERYTHING. Not just JG’s “process” whatever that is. If you have the same mentality in the front office you did when the team went 34-30 me thinks that will trump any “process”.
stubabe - January 31, 2012
My comments intended for Terry.
stubabe - January 31, 2012
I disagree
Jerry thinks extremely highly of Garrett, much moreso than he did of Phillips and trusts him to make the right decisions regarding roster additions and subtractions.
Terry - February 1, 2012
I'm sort of lost on what exactly you mean
seems vague. EVERYTHING? What is EVERYTHING?
They need to start drafting from the bottom of their big board and practicing in the nude? It’s just so easy to say, “Jerry needs to fire himself.” Great, we know it’s not happening, what else do you have?
ary201 - February 1, 2012
There is a difference between
churning the Roster a la the Patriots and the Giants and Rebuilding the Roster.
The Cowboys rebuilt the roster with Parcells, went all in with Phillips and missed their window in 07, and are now rebuilding the roster with Garrett.
That seems to me to be the difference between a consistent competitor such as the Giants and Pats and 34-30 over the last 4 years.
dave33 - January 31, 2012
If you are suggesting the tendency to "go all in" is the problem
then I agree with you. This organization tends to pursue short-term success when it seems within sight, rather than building consistently, steadily, with long-term vision and thinking.
rabblerousr - January 31, 2012
I agree
including with a lot of the other more emotional comments. But I also think that we are seeing a shift in the way things are done, not just JG, but the increasing role of Stephen Jones. I don’t have any more to go on than those who say it will never change, but my sense is that change already happening and time will show the results.
dunkman - January 31, 2012
agree 100% dunk
Terry - February 1, 2012
Rabble, I think that I think that I feel that I am in agreement with you
But you make me think about building long and short term and just what that means as a plan.
The reason I say that is after the model of a car maintenance plan. You know the parts that wear out the quickest (tires and oil, etc. ) and you can create your own little stockpile but normally you don’t address other issues unless they are showing signs of failure.
Because to create a plan means that you say, every 3 years we must draft this position and this one because they are most likely to need replacements.
Well my whole point is that since you only really hit with maybe 2 to a max of 4 players that will be Players and not JAGs or below who just ride the bench, how is it possible to always stem the tide (ie-planning and accruing) of all the possible areas that can suddenly get needy?
We have drafted guys and then had them not pan out ( think that is the lure of FA, you’ve seen the guy and can expect a certain thing out of him). I just think we have been unlucky cause I think our coaching has been good enough.
I mean every year I gripe about how NE has 12 draft picks and 2 number 1’s and yet name some of their no.1’s that they hit on (Vince W. was who I most coveted in the draft he came out and he make it all the way to no.32 before they picked him).
LiveNDieBlue - January 31, 2012
But will Cowboy fans allow for consistent building?
CaliFanInTx - January 31, 2012
F**k the fans
If they don’t allow, if they wahhh and whine, if they wail for their oh-so-special favorite shiny toy that’ll fix all that ails the Cowboys, if they think team-building’s an immediate satisfaction no-child-left-behind maddening fantasy.
Gentelmen, this is
afootball… – not fantasy.tanstaafl - January 31, 2012
Jerry is what ails the team. It ain't hard. Can't fix stupid.
football mensa - February 1, 2012
when Jerry gives kudos to Stephen for handling the cap the way he did I think the writing is on the wall...
Jerry is nothing but a figurehead now and JG and Stephen are the ones steering things now…..just need JJ to hand the titles over to Stephen for it to be official…
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
Titles are targets. Never cottoned to them.
Clout matters.
tanstaafl - February 1, 2012
however to the simple folk looking on it makes em feel all warm and cozy knowing that someone with a title is running things...
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
Apparently not
Though repetitively uttering the same meaningless tired refrain time and again falls more under the the Einsteinian “doing the same thing over and over agin and expecting different results” definition of Insanity.
tanstaafl - February 1, 2012
If you happen to think that I am one of the fans that will not allow for consistent building
because I am upset and frustrated with the last 16 years, you missed my point. I do want consistent building. What I really want though is better player evaluation, externally and internally and that leads to consistent building.
fs65 - February 1, 2012
ok then wait and see how this draft pans out then complain!
mho - February 1, 2012 via iPhone app
We've been waiting for drafts
to pan out for 16 yrs now.. Sorry but sum fans are getting tired of mediocrity, my patience is wearing very thin.
DarkKnight88 - February 1, 2012
You have it backwards. I get to complain until I see real change in Jerry.
The supposed “new” Jerry and JG have had one draft. I am willing to wait a couple more to see if Jerry has really changed his stripes.
But until I see that Jerry has actually changed, I will keep complaining.
fs65 - February 1, 2012
"went all in with Phillips"
Just reading that makes me ill…wow.
Starred4Life - January 31, 2012
Cowboys are making changes...I believe in the past we have hung on to players for far too long,
seemed like we were always looking for that one piece to get us there and giving up the farm to get it. We also neglected acquiring new talent in certain positions because they were content, overall we had very poor personnel management and questionable FO decisions far too often.
We had the propensity to avoid playing young guys early, which would make any meaningful roster churn difficult. IMO I think these things are beginning to change as evidence of the offseason last year. Can they do better? I’m sure they can, but we are at the beginning of what I think are going to be fundamental transformations in the FO that we needed.We seem to no longer be pursuing that single Super Bowl team making player with disregard to the future and cap. I like that we are seeing the willingness to discard unproductive players no matter the cost, “fish or cut bait” well we had a lot of bait to cut. The changes that have been put into effect will benefit this organization in the long run and may not have an immediate return, be patient (it’s hard to make a lot of changes when you have 25+/- million in dead money this year and another 12-15 next)
I like what I am seeing from Garrett and Stephen, I believe this combination is the driving force we needed to help Jerry run this show. I am encouraged and hopeful about the where this organization is headed. I will remain this way until proven otherwise.
DCB* - January 31, 2012
Romo doesn't have a lot of years remaining. There is no time for a 3 year rebuild.
3/5 of the 07 o line was bought not drafted. When you sign the majority of your position group as free agents it lends itself to getting old real quick. Jerry never supplemented the o line. The 2012 line better be ready to dominate. We don’t have time to wait 2 more years for them to gel. The more I type the more stupid Jerry becomes. He did nothing to help this team in the different position groups. Calling the 09 draft a special teams draft shows arrogance. What a fool. He deserves everything he sees on the field.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
If Romo gets an O-line in front of him...
he will play for the next five years. He is healthy…and Brady is 36 and still playing at a high level.
TheCowboyFan - January 31, 2012
yep, Romo is just heading into his prime years now
Terry - February 1, 2012
I agree on most of what you say, I have made some of the same points my self (granted more generalized),
but this
is not what this post is about. All those points you mentioned are valid and I agree, those are the moves that got us into this position and I can add to that.Trading for Roy Williams
Not trading Choice and Bennett when they had value, especially knowing they were never going to be big contributors.
Not playing the young guys earlier.
Big contracts handed out left and right
This list could go on forever.
Bad FO Acknowledged.
I repeat though, IMO
DCB* - January 31, 2012
I like what you said, and more, I like your enthusiasm and the Hope it espouses
LiveNDieBlue - January 31, 2012
100% correct.....
Low football IQ goes way beyond the defense players in Dallas.
Lots of low football IQ from blog contributors and posters parroting the Cowboy front office kool-aid on this site.
Cwon1 - January 31, 2012
I agree: there is no time for a three year rebuild.
But the team’s lack of talent and depth requires a three year plan (or more).
And that’s the tragedy of the recent past: Jerry and Co. have wasted the careers of Ware, Witten and Romo, who will either be gone or shells of their former Pro Bowl selves by the time this team is really able to contend.
rabblerousr - January 31, 2012
And with no future replacement in place at qb.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
QB will need to be looked at but to have a franchise QB in place would have required a use of a first round pick...
nothing else by a lot of the people on here would have been acceptable….If we don’t get an Andrew Luck or a Robert Griffith III type of player and he has to sit on the bench for 3 years behind our starter people wouldn’t be at all happy about the wasted pick…when it comes time to address the QB position I have no doubt that it will be taken care of…..right now other positions require fortifying with that premium pick..
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
The only one they have tried is McGee.
He isn’t the answer.
football mensa - February 1, 2012
no he's not the QB in waiting but we have yet to really see what he's capable of...
3 games….1 almost come from 14 behind against Arizona, a victory against the Eagles (their backups but still a win), and a game where he had absolutely no chance to do anything becuz the rest of the team was in it doesn’t matter win or lose mode…..yeah..good stuff….let me see a game where he has gotten into the rythm of the team and been prepped before hand….not just sitting in on meetings..
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
They may have wasted them
but we should remind ourselves that Dallas played VERY competitively against three of the final four teams. They aren’t 53 players away from competing. They are four or five improvements away (I say improvements because some players will go and some will come in, so positions need improvement) from being really good.
So let’s re-imagine last season with just one competent corner to replace the suddenly old Newman, one additional pressure player in the front seven, and one better interior offensive lineman. Don’t think they could have beaten most of the teams they lost to, including the SB-bound Giants? I think they could. So in this NFL, rebuilds don’t take years. They can happen in a season. So as bad aas somoe past decisions have been, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to think they can be back in the hunt next year.
dunkman - January 31, 2012
Astute observation
Rohpuri - January 31, 2012 via mobile
I agree
these Pats and Ravens and Giants and 49ers are not the dominant teams of the 90s. We truly are not very many players away from being at the top – I think if Free and Tyron switch and play well at the tackle spots, we draft or sign a guard or center who plays well, we put in a league average corner at LCB and get a top tier DE (Campbell), this team would instantly be one of the better, more (maybe most) complete teams in the league.
foyesboys - January 31, 2012
+1
gee-roj - January 31, 2012 via mobile
"They are four or five improvements away"
Tne usual way under estimate of what is wrong.
Same song and dance after 07’, “just a few players away”.
Nonsense.
Team should have been processed 08-11’ with trades, coaches being fired. 11’ was typical half-measures. Always a year behind and 50% of what was needed.
Trade what can at the higher end on defense; Ratliff for sure, Ware is more complicated but should be considered. Minimum 8 starting changes. Spears, Senesabaugh, Scandrick, Hatcher could all go if they had trade value. Newman auto cut. Jenkins should be shopped as well.
All off peak value for sure.
Defense should be gutted as the oline should have been gutted in 09’ at the latest.
History keeps repeating in Cowboyland, way overvalued by bright lights, fancy stadium, over compensation and dead money anchors around the teams neck.
The Pats prove it isn’t just about talent, it’s culture, coaching and being realistic. You aren’t being realistic in your assessment.
Cwon1 - January 31, 2012
I like this dude ^
football mensa - February 1, 2012
and you aren't being realistic in your appraisal....
can I ask what front office you are working for for it seems you have all the answers and someone wwith your obvious talents is wasted doing anything other than what others are getting paid handsomely for….
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
Cwon it sounds to me like ur a
fan of the team more than specific players, talking about trading ratliff, ware etc that’s gutsy but i luv that mindset.
DarkKnight88 - February 1, 2012
I'm glad you have all the answers
Here’s a little tipper for you though…. if you want people to read your long rants, stop insulting them along the way. All you have to offer are opinions, not facts, so they are about as valid as the next guy’s.
Hey, I have an out-of-the-box trade to propose…. We take JimmyK and give BGN Cwon1…. straight up, no exchanges.
dunkman - February 1, 2012
No.
tanstaafl - February 1, 2012
yeah I find the insult the other guy approach works really well to have them listen to your mind...
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
It is sad
The bulk of the primes of Romo, Ware, & Witten have been wasted.
Rohpuri - January 31, 2012 via mobile
I understand the feeling of the word you used, "wasted"
I felt that way too especially given the talent. Then my mind flipped to the opposite, the Pats. their teams were never tauted as filled with talent and yet they always rose above their talent (Coaching and scheme was always claimed)… and all the more I feel that word, Wasted and the nasty taste it leaves behind
LiveNDieBlue - January 31, 2012
To be specific,,,this team lacks talent in specific areas...not across the board...
CaliFanInTx - January 31, 2012
I remember after we lost to the Pats in 2007
Crayton was saying how we would meet them again in Arizona…. :,(
BrickTop - January 31, 2012 via mobile
Someone forgot to tell Crayton that talk is cheap
Antonio S - January 31, 2012
Crayton forgot to catch the passes and finish routes. I HATE that dude more than I hate Jerry.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
Easy now. Crayton didn't hire Quincey.
stubabe - January 31, 2012
Really, you hate Jerry?
I’d like to see him hire a GM, but I sure don’t hate him.
DIRE WOLF - January 31, 2012
No, just hyperbole.
I don’t hate Jerry. I firmly believe he wants to win, unlike a lot of owners. Unfortunately he doesn’t know how. The smartest thing he ever did was the first thing he ever did and that of course was hiring Jimmy. Jimmy WAS the braintrust because Jerry was brand new to team ownership. When 3 SB’s came in a rush, Jerry thought he knew everything you need to know. Alas, it turns out not to be so.
stubabe - January 31, 2012
I'm glad you don't hate Jerry, but my statement was directed at mensa.
DIRE WOLF - January 31, 2012
Well, if he does, he hates Crayton more.
stubabe - January 31, 2012
I loathe Crayton. I despise that stupid little fool.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
thats something we can agree on...
talk all that smack before the game then not catch a pair of passes that would have given us the game……he wou;dn’t have been on the team the next hour….his walking papers should have been given to him immediately after that game…
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
I don't buy into the "I like Jerry as an owner but not as a gm".
Can’t have one without the other. Like water and wet. Stop signs and red. If Jerry was such a good owner like everyone says he would have stepped down and hired competent football people. But he won’t do that. He can’t. So that makes him a bad owner too.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
Yeah, it is kind of weird
because the one major thing that Jerry the owner has done is to hire. . . .
Jerry the GM.
Until we see that change, we can only judge Jerry the owner by his skill in choosing a good GM.
(I don’t have a dog in this fight. I think Jerry’s a decent owner and a decent GM. I think that mediocrity is normal and that special comes around every once in a while—and even then a dropped pass by Crayton can stop it cold. I think Jerry’s done a decent job correcting his own mistakes, whether drafting or coach-hiring, but hasn’t proved himself a genius or anything.)
boyman - January 31, 2012
2 dropped passes by Crayton. And 1 route quit.
He makes LeBron almost look good in crunch time.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
agreed; but you should also be pissed at TO
He dropped a game winning TD at the goal line on the second to last drive.
Rohpuri - January 31, 2012 via mobile
How bout anthony henry missing that
pathetic attempt u mite call a tackle on toomer? How bout that defense letting eli drive all the way down the field in 50 secs rite before the half? Oline getting costly penalties, romo not throwing it away when he should have, fasono dropped a pass or 2.. Now crayton was a bum but it was more than him that f’d that game up.
DarkKnight88 - February 1, 2012
so, which gm hired jimmy?
That was not a major thing? Perhaps you credit jimmy for hiring jimmy?
CoachGary - February 1, 2012
T.O., and Craytoncost us that game
They both dropped game winning touch downs each late in the fourth quarter.
T.O. dropped a pass at the goalline on the second to last drive; and on the final drive Crayton dropped the game winning TD pass on the play prior to RW MCQuarters INT of Romo’s pass intended for Terry Glenn.
Rohpuri - January 31, 2012 via mobile
Don't forget Jacques Reeves and Nate Jones giving up a td before half.
Then all of a sudden Jerry realizes we need a cb. So he drafts Jenkins. That’s Jerry’s m.o.. He waits until there is dire need before addressing the situation.
football mensa - January 31, 2012
I have that TD forever etched in my head
That was when I first felt the Giants might win that game.
Rohpuri - January 31, 2012 via mobile
Eli went at Reeves everytime he was on the field that game...
dcsince77 - January 31, 2012 via mobile
Yeah, which is what smart people do.
Geniuses uncannily see the needs coming and be ready. Dumb people don’t address needs. Smart people meet needs as they see them. Jerry is smart, not a genius—and not dumb.
boyman - January 31, 2012
umm....
I don’t remember any drops by TO. I remember a drop in the endzone by fasano, Romo overthrowing a wide open TO on the following play, and multiple screwups by Crayton.
Crayton didn’t drop the second to last play of the game, he stopped his route. But he did drop the classic Romo escape artist momentum changer ball that was the type of play that constantly turned momentum in our favor that year.
foyesboys - January 31, 2012
Yea, that
was Jerry the GM’s fault that they dropped those easy catches.
CoachGary - February 1, 2012
Everytime
We’re in the playoffs, we have some screwed up play. The Giants, however, have some of the luckiest
BrickTop - January 31, 2012 via mobile
As Branch Rickey said, "Luck is the Residue of Design."
Teams and players create luck through hard work and persistent excellence.
rabblerousr - January 31, 2012
To some degree
but you can’t find much design in a punter returner turning the ball over and giving spotting the other team 10 points, or guys making the only great catch of their careers in the SB.
dunkman - January 31, 2012
+1
Fernie67 - January 31, 2012
+2
gee-roj - January 31, 2012 via mobile
+3
fs65 - February 1, 2012
+5
thebigham - February 1, 2012
Off topic, but this is pretty funny
http://www.sportspickle.com/news/9762/cocky-eli-manning-legally-changes-his-name-to-elite-manning
BrickTop - January 31, 2012 via mobile
They just re-signed Spears, so we know he isn’t going anywhere.
StarloverinWNC - January 31, 2012
seriously?
yehti - January 31, 2012 via mobile
5 years $19.5M $3.5M signing bonus.
DIRE WOLF - January 31, 2012
yah but wasnt that back like 6-8 months ago?
yehti - January 31, 2012 via mobile
NM i read that like it was breaking news......lol
yehti - January 31, 2012 via mobile
Yes, it was last June or July.
pfloyd1 - January 31, 2012
In a four year period, it's one thing to turn over your roster in an effort to improve it and another if your turning it over because you've drafted poorly
and the young ones are not contributing and being released. Witness the 09 draft. If you don’t draft well there is a tendency to keep older players a bit too long and that’s trouble. Belichick is known for getting rid of aging vets and trying to replace them with younger players. Now he may not hit on all his draft choices, but he has so many that it’s like throwing ten darts at a board all at once, one of the is likely to hit the bullseye. If a franchise is going to do well and consistently maintain a competetive edge, said franchise must draft well.
pfloyd1 - January 31, 2012
Also did anyone know that the Pats have 18 undrafted FAs on their roster. That's scouting the lesser known talent.
pfloyd1 - January 31, 2012
...and the Cowbboys don't "scout the lesser known talent"...
If I compare our UFA “haul” to theirs, I’m thinking we’re more successful in finding the unknowns…
Romo and Austin would be the poster boys…do the Patriots have an UFA with their prominence?
Why do you think this organization puts a premium on bringing those expected UFA’s in for a visit before the draft? Jerry brings them to the stadium and really “sells” them on the team…there was actually an article written about this fact last Summer by DMN or ESPN…
CaliFanInTx - January 31, 2012
"do the Patriots have an UFA with their prominence"??
Yeah, they do. The guy who knocked the winning touchdown out of Baltimore’s hands was picked up mid-season, cut and brought back. Pat’s don’t care about “prominence” beyond a season.
18 UDFA on the Pats, 11 drafted above the 5th round.
You have to look at the totals of comparison, not just cherry pick.
Cwon1 - January 31, 2012
Hey, here's an idea...let's trade Romo or Austin for that guy....
CaliFanInTx - January 31, 2012
That's amazing they reverted to UDFA...
with all the picks they had in the last several drafts…and they had MANY picks.
TheCowboyFan - February 1, 2012
No he’s not…Chad Ochocinco, Junior Seau, Albert Haynesworth…the list is extensive because there are positions the Patriots abolutely suck at drafting…WR, RB and Secondary. Their defense is a mess. We have our Roy Williams debacle, they have their Adalius Thomas…
You hate our ’09 draft…take a peek at their ’07 draft…The Patriots are exceptional at producing picks, but not at using them…
How do they keep making the playoffs? For most of a decade, they’ve played in a weak division, while they have exceptional coaching and one of the best QB’s to have played the game.
CaliFanInTx - January 31, 2012
Excuse me, how many SBs have they won during this decade and how many have we won?
They are obviuosly more succesful at finding talent than we are. Belichick is a genius, but he does need the horses too.
pfloyd1 - January 31, 2012
No question they have been more successful this past decade...I've never argued that, but that wasn't my point.
I was trying to point out that you might be wrong in how well they acquire talent and your statement that they “draft well”…they have very few exceptional players on their team, but they succeed because they are “coached” to play like a team and each player knows their role…they’re starting guys out like Edelman…that’s talented?
CaliFanInTx - January 31, 2012
yeah exactly.
Bill won his SBs early because of the Tunas D, and Brady popping up to extend the offense for another 4 years after Bledisoe.
Edelman is perfect example of their great coaching, started out WR and switched him to DB out of need.
thebigham - January 31, 2012
They draft well because Belichick stockpiles picks. I didn't say all their picks were great, but he has so many he can't screw up all of them.
pfloyd1 - January 31, 2012
Lots of injuries to his DBs necessitated Edelman's playing DB.
Belichick knows how to use players, he churns rosters faster than most and still fields winning, competetive teams, playoff calibre teams, year in and year out. His players have some talent and he recognizes it and develops it.
pfloyd1 - January 31, 2012
if we were in the AFC East we would have made the playoffs too!
We beat Miami, Buffalo, should have beat the Jets, and the Pats! Our division is constantly tougher than NE. The nick name MFC Beast isn’t for not!
mho - February 1, 2012 via iPhone app
I didn't know it was nicknamed the MFC Beast.
ary201 - February 1, 2012
lol
Motha F&$))! Conference Beast…You didn’t know?!
mho - February 1, 2012 via iPhone app
Yes, they're successful
but they got to the second round of the playoffs before having to beat a team with a winning record. It’s uncanny how bad their opposition has been.
boyman - January 31, 2012
What about guys like Seymour, McGinest, etc.
He gets Draft picks for aging Vets and when he gets a vet he gives up nothing and for the most part those Vets contribute, Moss, Seau. How long did Fat Albert last and how long do you think Ocho will last..
pfloyd1 - January 31, 2012
Pats have not had a real good D
since 2007, which was the last gasp of the old crowd, some of whom had been drafted by Tuna. BB has been unable to rebuild that D. The Pats have won on O for several years now
burmafrd1944 - January 31, 2012
The point being though is that they win. I'd like to see us shore up our OL and protect Tony so that we can compete with the Pats,
Saints, Packers, etc. Their D is starting to gel a bit now. If we can protect Tony and become an elite O with an improved D we can win next year. JG has a plan that I think will work. I think that’s the big change in the Cowboys’ organization.
pfloyd1 - January 31, 2012
Pats made plenty of bad picks as well.....
18 UDFA, 11 drafted no higher than 5th round.
Then again, they aren’t running a country club for poser talent like the Cowboys. The boys are bad in so many ways.
they should have churned mid-level coaches much more as well.
Cwon1 - January 31, 2012
There is a huge difference Sir.
The Patriots have had FAs not work out. These FAs are normally brought in a temporary fix until a suitable player is drafted or developed. The contracts signed do not kill the salary cap if the player doesn’t work out. The Patriots rarely give up prime draft picks. Jerry has done both repeatedly.
oldboysfan - January 31, 2012
They always maintain draft pick inventory.
They will trade away and down again this year. It’s the right policy in general.
Inmates run the asylum in Dallas.
Cwon1 - January 31, 2012
Pats make plenty of mistakes but.....
they regenerate, coach well with whatever they have, admit mistakes and bench and cut players who aren’t producing. Cowboys often do the opposite; Newman, Scandrick, Sensabaugh are just recent examples.
As for clinging to past peak players, nobody can touch the Cowboys on that front.
Where are the dead money stats that only tell half a story? Newman’s cost hasn’t even reached that total yet. The Cowboys have “walking dead money” all the time, they’re still on the field sometimes for years doing subprime work; Brooking, James, Newman, Elam, Scandrick and the old oline for years after 07’.
Cwon1 - January 31, 2012
even take a look at their 2009 draft...
didn’t they just get rid of Darius Butler their second round pick this year?…..they had no first round that year and about 12 picks…..they only had like 2-3 left on their team from that draft….but they are so much better at drafting than we are….
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
"Better" might not be the best word.....
Well adjusted to the process is more correct, the front office doesn’t pine over their draft picks the way the Cowboys do. They think about getting a job done first, can’t do the job? You’re gone. More about the present instead of dreaming about developement of drafts and projects.
Cwon1 - February 1, 2012
see that wasn't so hard not to sound insulting was it?
I get what you are saying and in this day and age maybe staying young is the way to go but they way fans are if all we did was draft young then the naysayers would be saying how we didn’t resign any top end players, that our core was young and lack leadership, there is no loyalty to anyone anymore…..I happen to agree with some of what you are saying but the way you spit it out sometimes is quite diasagreeable…
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
I was just beatup on the Ryan Db post today....
over exactly this topic. No, the there isn’t enough churn. Players should have been traded for years, top heavy contract culture a huge issue for the Cowboys.
Where are the dead money stats when you need them?? that ends the debate right there. Also, the Giants comparison is a bit of red herring, look at the Pats….only 7 players from 07’. One on defense. Dallas was much longer in the tooth than either team in 07’. It’s another distortion that takes pity on bungled Cowboy management.
Cowboys cling to players, soft highend contract culture. #1 player problem.
Only 50% of the Cowboy culture issue of course. What about the silo driven coaching staff where one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing? Dinosaur preservation league. Only excuse Ryan has is he couldn’t fire as many as were called for in 11’ players and coaches alike. Every coach who got packaged out or not extended should have been gone long ago and certainly in 2011 preseason.
Pats have 18 UDFA and 11 others drafted no higher than the 5th round. They squeeze water from stones, the Cowboys operate like a Stalin 5 year plan doing everything three times to get it remotely right. Still fail in the end.
JJ clings to track stars and other projects that seldom see the light of day, weightlifters, second rate draft picks who produce little (Bennett) and a host of players with very low football IQ’s (Spencer, Newman, James, Elam., Sensabaugh all come to mind). The same rot happened with the o-line for years.
Cwon1 - January 31, 2012
I’m not saying this argument is bad, but you’re glossing over a few important details. One being teams who make the Super Bowl usually have their rosters raided. And two being Belichick and Coughlin are up here compared to most of the coaches in the league, including Jason Garrett. I think the better idea to pick out of this is the fixation on trading down for multiple picks versus having a few elite players paired with a bunch of cheap, undrafted free agent rookies and minimum contract veterans fighting for roster spots. When we’re criticizing previous drafts compared to what we perceive to be happening under Garrett, it should be noted those drafts always had their picks at the bottom of the rounds, not in the top 10 like Garrett had in getting Tyron Smith.
strokes - January 31, 2012
Shhh
when guy’s like this get on a roll it’s best not to point out how bad the Pats have been at drafting recently, at how the ravens actually cut James Harrison before he broke out and they picked Dennis Pitta over Gronk, or how the Steelers have held on to older declining players, or even how the Eagles thought that Casey Matthews was a Day 1 starter and that Brandon Graham was better than JPP.
Nope, it’s only the Cowboys FO that ever makes mistakes, everyone else is perfect. The draft is an exact science. Nothing to see here.
Rat-Pack - February 1, 2012
that gets a rec
I am Ironman!!! - February 2, 2012
And yet the Patriots are in the Super Bowl, the Steelers were in the Super Bowl last year, and The Ravens were in the AFC Championship Game this year, all levels of success that Dallas has not been near in almost twenty years now.
You got me on the Eagles. Dallas is better than the Eagles. We should take pride in that. Except they beat Dallas twice, beat the living crap out of Dallas one of those times, and finished ahead of the Cowboys in the Standings.
Otherwise, brilliant point, and very eloquently stated
Seanrude - February 2, 2012
Well played
my only point is FOs make mistakes, sometimes even huge ones.
I hate when people act like this is a 4-12 team situation. People DO realize we’ve either been in the playoffs or had the chance to make them every year that Romo was starting in Week 17 right?
Rat-Pack - February 2, 2012
My point is that there is a reason those Front Offices get a bit of a pass on those mistakes, and it has absolutely nothing to do with any real or perceived Anti-Cowboys Animus in the media or among fans
And while your week 17 point is true, how often has Dallas crapped the bed in that situation? How often has Dallas crapped the bed when all they needed to do was win one game in the last three games (or thereabouts) of the season?
Seanrude - February 2, 2012
That would be 16 yrs Sean, 16 long brutal yrs
DarkKnight88 - February 2, 2012
that 2007 team was the biggest disappointment in team history hands down....
It is probably up there in NFL history behind the 07 Pats and 98 Vikings… But at least they won a playoff game. 13 Pro Bowlers and nothing to show for it. Man what a waste…..
dcsince77 - January 31, 2012 via mobile
As bad as it was.....
it doesn’t excuse the mindless status quo thinking that went on “holding it together” for years after 07’. Considering this was exactly the same pattern that trashed the super bowl based teams 94-97 as well. JJ learned very little.
Consider the mindless extensions on the list; Owens, Columbo, Adams, Gurode, NEWMAN!!, Hamlin, R. Williams (defense) not to mention the worst trade in Cowboy history R. Wiliams.
Cwon1 - January 31, 2012
the opening line made me laugh for 10 min!!!
Rec’d.
Something the writers can submit to the SB office for upgrading the app-
-A Rec’d option for the posts.
-It crashes even if recently loaded after wifi usage.
-View/change your own profile, i.e. see responses to your comments, change your profile pic etc.
-Stay where you were when you’ve opened a link on a post/article.
Just some thoughts on how to improve it. I still love the app though!
mho - January 31, 2012 via iPhone app
question why do you use the app?
The full site on mobile works just fine for me, have you tried it? You can do everything you can on a computer.
thebigham - February 1, 2012
wifi (iPod touch) load time sucks on it! plus it kill my battery.
mho - February 1, 2012 via iPhone app
thanks
just sent your suggestions up the chain. I use the app as well and miss being able to rec posts and comments on there.
to tbh- the app gives you two click access to the site, and imho, a better consolidated experience.
KD Drummond - February 1, 2012
Hmm
I too have two click access on my droid X. Sometimes one. I guess its all preference. Does that app show “new” comments?
thebigham - February 1, 2012
yep, and seems to react quicker than going through the web to me
KD Drummond - February 1, 2012
looking at how poor this secondary played i wonder if we was able to signed Namdi would we made the playoffs..
lostar2009 - February 1, 2012 via mobile
and not sign anyone else, i doubt it.
thebigham - February 1, 2012
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