Chris Trotman - Getty Images
Everyone talks about the number one pick for each team. How about talking about all the picks, for all the teams?
When we get to talking about the draft, there are a lot of things that everybody knows. You have to hit on the picks in the first three rounds. Late round picks don't usually make it. The last round is pretty much just throwing darts at a board.
That seems to be the conventional wisdom. But I got to wondering. Just what is the success rate for the different rounds of the draft? Besides, I am naturally distrustful of the conventional wisdom.
The Dallas Cowboys certainly need to maximize their draft choices this year, which is one of those things you can almost always say and be right. It is also one of those ill-defined things that different people often say but don't always agree on what they mean.
To get a better understanding of what draft choices are really worth, I decided to go back and take a look at success rates for draft picks in a previous year. Not just for the Cowboys. For all thirty two teams, from the first pick to the last.
And along the way, I saw some things that rather surprised me.
See if you agree after the jump.

The first thing I had to do was decide on what the definition of success was. Obviously, a player like Tyron Smith who comes in and starts from day one is going to be counted as one, but how do you judge a seventh rounder? I decided to use the following criteria, with different standards as you go deeper into the draft.
First off, there has to be a certain longevity involved. I wanted to look at what happens a few seasons down the road. I decided to go back to the 2008 draft and look at where those 252 college players wound up after four seasons. It is a bit arbitrary, but given the chance of injury and the relative shortness of an NFL player's career, I thought it would was a reasonable point to decide if a player was a successful use of a pick at that point. Even if they went out after four years, that is a decent return on investment in the league.
I also am not limiting the definition of success to the original team. If a player is drafted and then changes teams due to a trade or free agency, and continues to perform, then it was a successful pick, just not necessarily one that the original team was able to keep.
First rounders have to either become starters or in certain cases fill a role the team needs them for, basically from day one. When I was thinking about this, I looked at Dallas' first pick that year, Felix Jones. He has been a starter, but is actually considered by many to be more valuable to the team as the change of pace back. Was he a home run pick? No, but then neither were some other running backs selected that year. Is he still a valuable part of his team? Yes. He is a success, not a failure. Another example from that draft, and from the same school, Arkansas, was Darren McFadden. For a variety of reasons, many having to do with a dysfunctional coaching staff, he did not have very good seasons his first two years, but in 2010, he finally got a chance and became a key part of the team, even if he had injury issues this year. He is a success.
Second and third rounders need to make some significant contribution to the team, and be on the active roster, not just carried on the team. Many become starters, but again they may be more of a role player. Another Dallas pick from that year is Martellus Bennett, the second round choice. While it can be argued as to whether his role was worth the pick, it also must be admitted that no one was going to supplant Jason Witten as the starting tight end. Martellus is seen as a force when he is used as a blocker, and he is going to play again next year. It just isn't known if that will be in Dallas.
After the third round, just being in an NFL uniform qualifies a player as a success. They may be a career backup and see limited time, but the fact that someone is paying them an NFL veteran's salary means that they fill some need.
Quarterbacks are a special case. Even if they are picked in the first three rounds, they may be a quarterback of the future for four years, or they may become a career backup. Nonetheless, any quarterback in any round is counted as a success in my book if they make it for four years. After all, Matt Flynn was taken in that draft, way down in the seventh round - and he is likely to be starting somewhere come September, based on one record breaking game to end last season.
Finally, injuries are a bit of a quandary. First of all, I could not track down all of the players who were not successes to determine if an injury was the cause of their failure (I spent more time researching this than any other article I have written, and it just got to be a matter of how long I could take). And even if it is an unforeseen injury, a player who is out of the league after a year or two is basically a wasted pick, no matter what the reason. I did have some cases of players who were starters or significant contributors all of 2010 but missed most or all of 2011 due to injury that I counted as successes, since they have a hope of coming back. It was a judgment call, and I am not claiming to be perfect on all.
So having set some rules, here are my results for the 2008 draft.
| Round | Success | Failure | Total | % Success |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 26 | 5 | 31 | 84% |
| 2 | 21 | 11 | 32 | 66% |
| 3 | 28 | 8 | 36 | 78% |
| 4 | 20 | 16 | 36 | 56% |
| 5 | 18 | 13 | 31 | 58% |
| 6 | 18 | 23 | 41 | 41% |
| 7 | 21 | 24 | 45 | 47% |
| Total | 152 | 100 | 252 | 60% |
The first thing that struck me was that the fall-off rate from round to round was not as dramatic as I expected when looked at as a whole. I was especially surprised to see that the third, fifth, and seventh rounds all showed a jump over the previous rounds, which made up for the larger drops in the even numbered ones. The third round only having a six percent lower success rate than the first round was almost shocking.
The total success rate was at least 10% higher than I expected. I was somehow under the impression that players taken in the last couple of rounds only had a 25% to 30% chance at best of making it in the NFL, but that was obviously mistaken. The seventh rounders had nearly a 50-50 shot at spending the next four years as NFL players, which is quite an accomplishment. Those picks that I used to think were just afterthoughts turn out to have a surprisingly good chance of paying off.
A couple of stories also emerged from looking deeper. First, Mr. Irrelevant that year was David Vobora, pick number 252. Although he went on IR with an injured shoulder, he was still on the Seattle Seahawks roster for six games this year, after being on the game day roster 34 times the previous three years with the Rams. That qualifies as a success in my book. As a matter of fact, the last three players taken that year all were still on NFL rosters in 2011.
And the Cowboys had a 100% success rate that year. Four players, Felix Jones (22nd pick overall), Mike Jenkins (25th), Martellus Bennett (61st), and Orlando Scandrick (143rd) all are still with the team. Tashard Choice (123rd) also made the list, although barely, having managed to be on game day rosters seven times last season. He was one of the really marginal calls, but I tried to be consistent all the way through each round. The fact he was active with the Bills at the end of the season was the deciding factor for me. And the last player the Cowboys took, Erik Walden (167th), turned out to be a lost opportunity. The team tried to sneak him onto the practice squad, but he was snatched away by the Chiefs, spent some time with the Dolphins, and then got a Super Bowl ring in 2010 as a Packer. Last year he started fifteen games at OLB and had 60 tackles, three sacks and a forced fumble. Maybe we could have used him, you think?
I know this is just one year, and draft classes vary in strength. But the percentages really caught my attention. I have revised several of my assumptions on the draft as a result of this exercise.
The big takeaway from all this, at least for me, is that there is no such thing as a worthless draft choice. With some good scouting, even late round picks have a good chance of paying off for the team over the long haul. The Cowboys blew it in 2009 (which may have influenced my decision to look at four years rather than three to measure success), but have come back with more respectable performances in 2010 and 2011. Here is hoping that the trend continues.
5 recs | 61 comments
Good work
I think frankly 5-7 rds should be used for projects; players from small schools or those that were injured but should recover. Or players from large schools buried on their depth charts (some of the best college teams backups would start for others)
burmafrd1944 - January 30, 2012
Nice stuff, Tom
I’ve always thought the 2008 draft gets a bit of a bad rap. Sure, ‘Tellus is a knucklehead, and Choice seemingly set up shop in the coaches’ doghouse, but the Cowboys picked guys in every round who have made solid, even significant, contributions. You know what they call a team who can draft like that every year?
A Super Bowl contender.
rabblerousr - January 30, 2012
Are you going to do something similar for 2009?
Wait, never mind. I don’t think I could stomach it…
dunkman - January 30, 2012
2009 was an abomination
I really hope they learned their lesson from that awful draft class.
Antonio S - January 30, 2012
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Took me two years of therapy on that pick alone…Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Jasoin Williams
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Jason Williams
Rome One - January 30, 2012
"Hi"
“I’m not football bright…I play at a small non-competitive school…I have no shot at jumping to the pro’s and contributing anytime soon…but I look good in a pair of shorts and a tee-shirt.” – Jason Williams.
“Where’s my draft card!!!!” – Jerry Jones, sprinting to the podium.
Rome One - January 30, 2012
That was one of those "our team is set" drafts, like one of the drafts in the mid 90's after Jimmy was gone.
This is a perfect example why Jerry needs a GM. No one to argue with Jerry before he tries to trick fu*k the draft. Wade sure wasn’t going to, he was a yes man, Jerry’s favorite kinda HC.
DIRE WOLF - January 30, 2012
Don't worry Dire
I will report mensa hijacking your account to the authorities… jk…
dunkman - January 30, 2012
But it's the truth.
DIRE WOLF - January 30, 2012
lol
BigBad Joe - January 30, 2012
Let's not forget passing over William Beatty for Robert Brewster
That’s the one that guts me the most.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 30, 2012
Trading of the 2nd ranks up there
Oh hell that whole draft…ugh!!!
Antonio S - January 30, 2012
yeah of that draft that was the worst.
Jonathan Stern - January 30, 2012
lol, so everyone say now.
Go back and read the threads though, and enjoy some familiar names from these parts as they actually DEFEND that draft!
Don’t forget, many here were predicting SB cuz the Boys had “so much talent” ,so that made it OK to stock up on “Special Team Players”!
Realist Larry - January 30, 2012
haha people really were pleased
with a “special teams” draft seriously? Wow just wow lmao
DarkKnight88 - January 30, 2012
Great idea for an article!
For all the talk the draft gets, especially in regards to first round picks – it seems many times we overlook the bust rate on these top draft picks.
You put it at 5 of 31 but reading through the list just now and it could be said that there were at least 10 first round busts in 2008.
This link gives a good summary of each team: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/15054471/regrading-the-2008-draft-wrong-about-skins-right-about-chiefs
A great point you made is that the lower rounds often produce the best players taken by the teams in any given year.
The Saints managed to draft 3 starters – great draft.
The Chiefs managed to draft six starters in 2008! Glen Dorsey, picked near the top of the draft, has been considered a disappointment even though he remains a starter.
Any draft where you get two quality starters has to be considered success. Three means you’ve had a great draft. Hoping this year we get three studs!!
livemontana - January 30, 2012
That is good info, Tom. Thanks!
I am wondering if the second round is going to continue to have a lower success rate on further inspection. Maybe the “risk factor” things dropping good talent into second, and hype driving up lower ranked players into 2nd…
BlueNSilverBlood - January 30, 2012
I think that's it Blue
The second round is a hotbed for people being swayed by guys with 1st round talent and no round heart or brains. These guys are passed over for a reason by all 32 teams in the NFL but once you get to the 2nd that risk/reward line starts getting real tempting. I think your second point is true as well. Workout Warriors and “Potential” guys start looking very very good.
Overall, I think NFL teams are still trying to hit the bullseye in Round Two, trying to get ahead of the next team in their division with a risky pick that could pay off huge dividends. This is the live wire, hot action, midnight runner, gambler’s round for sure.
By the time teams enter the third round they are back to business and analyzing their picks much more thoroughly.
pjohn56 - January 30, 2012
I also wonder to what extent
guys are allowed by teams hang around because they were earlier picks versus later. I think the pick and financial investment probably plays a role, even if it’s subconsciously.
dunkman - January 30, 2012
I would agree that happens frequently.
And it lends to the question, what would an accurate bust rate be if the 2nd round busts were evicted in their first camp like a late round draftee would be? Maybe other teams snatch them up off waivers waiting for them to pull a pick-6 from their best friend in five years…
We hold onto our talent until they are ready to pull a miracle pick-6, though. Mighty courteous of us.
Anyway, 2008’s 2nd rnd bust rate could be a total fluke.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 31, 2012
btw -
New England had 7 picks in 2008 – got one starter
Pittsburgh had 7 picks in 2008 – got one starter
Chicago had 12 picks!! Basically got no one that is contributing big
Every team has a bad draft. We had ours in 2009. It was the Roy Williams cause and effect. JJ admits the mistake. Not much else can be said.
livemontana - January 30, 2012
I would trade our entire 2009 draft class for Mike Wallace or Patrick Chung
Archie Barberio - January 30, 2012
What's this 2009 draft class you speak of?
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
well said.
Jonathan Stern - January 30, 2012
And BTW Tom
thanks for all the work this took. Holy crap.
dunkman - January 30, 2012
Yes, tons of work ... great job ... and yet another BTB prize here
DalaiLuke - January 30, 2012
+1
Antonio S - January 30, 2012
One note:
I was not looking at whether the player was a star, just if they had at least attained a bit of JAG competence. I agree with livemontana that not all the successes I list were as valuable as you would want someone, especially a high round pick, to be, but I needed a simple metric that I could apply easily.
It would be interesting to go back and look at how earlier drafts did, using the same four year point. I just don’t have time, but if anyone wants to, feel free to use my idea, and I’ll be glad to offer assistance in getting the post together if you want it.
Tom Ryle - January 30, 2012
with all the talk about the failure of the 2009 draft,
i started trying to go thru the books to see actually how the talent level of that draft stacked up…..from what I was seeing there was a couple of reasons why Jerry did what he did…while there was a dearth of talent as fa as skill players that year, the biggest bang for the buck I was in offensive linemen. Unfortunately we had just resigned the majority of our offensive line to big contracts.
With the amount that first round picks were making at that time it was probrably viewed that there was no reason to spend the dough on a player that was going to be sitting on the bench instead of playing. While we can agree that this is the wrong attitude to have from a football frame of mind, from a business standpoint it made sense at the time. Even New England traded out of the first round entirely and ended up with 4 2nd round picks that year in an effort to curb spending….they didn’t see the talent that was worth what a rookie was making in that draft.
I’m not defending Jerry for his mistake that he has has admitted to, and a large part of our 2009 draft was the Williams trade which just made matters worse. I’m just trying to see things thru his eyes at the time erred even as they were…..
And nice write up Tom….great job…rec’d all the way
TruBluToTheCore - January 30, 2012
that explanation does make sense
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
It does although
I doubt they ever take that approach again. I don’t think they are any prouder of the result than we are.
dunkman - January 30, 2012
agreed
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
agreed
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
Nice read
This goes to show that Rounds 1-3 ARE NOT a crap shoot. Next time someone makes that argument, show em Tom’s article.
Tom quick question, does this mean Julius Jones, Bobby Carpenter, and Anthony Fasano count as successes? I think I know the answer, I just don’t like it.
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
Fasano was good pick, but Jerry traded him for a warm bucket of sh!t to Miami.
DIRE WOLF - January 30, 2012
nice image
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
Bobby maybe not -
he never became a starter, and wasn’t really a successful role player. But since he wasn’t from 2008, I didn’t look at his history.
Tom Ryle - January 30, 2012
fair enough
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
Getting Coples would be like getting Watt last year.
And I think Tyron was a great choice. But we needed both Smith and Watt.
Jonathan Stern - January 30, 2012
I like Coples
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
None of those guys rocks the world , or is pro bowl year in and out ( though Jenkins did it once)
One terrific player would have been worth all those guys.
Jonathan Stern - January 30, 2012
I disagree there
no 1 player is worth 4 Quality Starters…..
Regardless of How you feel about them individually, all 4 combined have improved this team over what one player could have….
I am Ironman!!! - January 30, 2012
well we will just have to agree to disagree.
I think Lawrence Taylor ( who the Cowboys sort of tried to trade up for ) was worth every player the Cowboys drafted from 1981 to 1987.
I think Mario Williams would have been worth every player the Cowboys drafted from 2006 to 2009.
Jonathan Stern - January 30, 2012
there are not four starters there, let alone quaity starters
Seanrude - February 1, 2012
And that's another point I could have expanded on.
Most of the players in the NFL are not stars, just JAGs. And you have to build your team with those guys. No one can put together 22 all pro players – and if they do, there is probably some overrating going on there.
Tom Ryle - January 30, 2012
you get your JAGs off the waiver wire.
Jonathan Stern - January 30, 2012
Where they probably landed after being drafted by someone.
Tom Ryle - January 30, 2012
and you're better off replace drafted jags than signing someone else's jag
keeps costs down
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
i mean
you’re better off replacing jags through the draft than signing a jag in free agency.
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
it is better to use the draft to get stars not jags
Jonathan Stern - January 30, 2012
If you could tell in advance who is going to be a JAG and who will be a star
you could be a very wealthy man.
Tom Ryle - January 30, 2012
you can’t but higher picks have a higher chance of hitting big.
If there is someone you really like you go for them like in the 2010 draft with Dez or Sean Lee.
You should never be afraid to trade up.
Jonathan Stern - January 31, 2012
see what putting together that team did for the Eagles this past year....
TruBluToTheCore - February 1, 2012
2008 was the year they restructred and expanded the scouting department
Birddog26 - January 30, 2012
really?
Rohpuri - January 30, 2012 via mobile
Jeff Ireland and Brian Gaine left for Miami to join Parcells in Miami
They helped controll the 2008 draft, but there were conflicts with the head coach in 2009 who got his way even though Ciskowscki swolled the bullet. Tom was able to help gain back control in 2010 along with one of the coordinators.
ps, Tom Spent 12 years scouting with Jim Garrett with the Cowboys.
Birddog26 - January 30, 2012
Man
Did not know this:
Explains a lot.
dunkman - January 30, 2012
Can success truly be measured objectively?
IMO, sometimes yes; sometimes no. I think true success can only be measured by whether a player fulfilled, or came close to fulfilling, the expectations held for that player.
I am not sure I would have used the same criteria as you in determining success. To me, a player is successful if he fulfills, or exceeds, a team’s expectations when they drafted him. Using that barometer, a first rounder who starts for a year or two cannot be considered a success, e.g. Ryan Leaf or Brian Bosworth. On the other hand, some players, even first round picks, have very short, or disapointing careers, but play significant roles in a team’s success, e.g. Duane Thomas. Are those plays successful? Then, there are those first round picks who play for several years, but never live up to expectation, e.g. Tony Mandarich.
To me, there are just too many exceptions to come up with a set of numbers which define success.
RenoCowboy - January 30, 2012
I actually used a little subjective judgement.
There were a lot of marginal guys I had to read between the lines a little – they were still around, but only active for a handful of games the past couple of years. Those mostly fell into the “fail” group. The closest thing to a cut line was probably Tashard Choice – he barely made it, and only because Buffalo needed another running back and picked him up late. If a player was not around for at least six games last year, they pretty much were a fail, unless there was an injury exception.
It wasn’t automatic. Trying to figure those borderline cases out took the biggest chunk of my time.
Tom Ryle - January 30, 2012
Tired of that Walden crap
They guy is not even as good as Spencer, don’t know why we even talk about him at all
Nardfather - January 30, 2012
Agreed. I like any of our OLBs better than Walden.
revellyre - January 31, 2012
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