Blogging The Boys

Agreed.

We need a first round quality talent to replace Newman in either the draft or through FA.

krl97a - January 27, 2012 reply

The more I think about it

the more I agree with this approach. G/C will be more available so you don’t have to take one as early, but a really good pash rusher (or two) is going to more significantly upgrade this defense than any other single move. Of course they’ll add secondary help because Newman seems to be too slow to play now, but that alone won’t make this team much better.

yea but we cant keep ignoring our secondary, we need a top corner in teh first or second.

#DBoyZ - January 27, 2012 reply

I want Finnegan at CB

With this new scheme that Henderson will be implementing I want proven talent at CB. That will solidify the back with Sensibaugh being adequate at SS with Lee and Carter. I also would like either a C or G to be picked up in FA maybe both. That way we can get a DE at 14.

mtibus - January 27, 2012 reply

hopefully they find a vet ILB on the cheap for insurance

You're assuming that there's a pass rusher worth taking at 14.

Say Ingram’s gone. Do you really want Upshaw at 14? Over Decastro? I sure as hell don’t.

Yeah, this is the deal.

If we want an upgrade over Spencer—i.e., a true elite talent, not just a decent athlete who gets 5-6 sacks—then he may not be there at 14. So if you really want to upgrade the rush (which is extremely helpful but not, IMHO, necessary—we grade out average or better already) wouldn’t you spend that money on a known commodity in free agency?

The guards and centers and (this year) cornerbacks are, I think, going to be there in the draft.

Well dallas might just screw this draft up.

14 is a hard spot to be in with the lack of pass rushers and gap on corner talent your forced to take vest player on the board or trade out of 14. Arizona take Ingram. And decastro is nice pick but is it worth a 14 pick. I say trade up to get Claiborne and use a third we get for Bowen for the trade up. Only way we don’t screw it us is if we trade up.

Sado44 - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Claiborne would be worth it, but not likely

DeCastro is worth the 14th pick IMO, you think the Seahawks or Vikings regretted taking Hutchinson or Iupati 17th? Yeah, me neither. I think DeCastro’s that good, maybe even better. Definitely plays with nastiness and sure as hell wouldn’t let Michael Boley through the line to clobber Romo.

you cant trade compensatory picks

matt575 - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

i think Dallas is looking hard at Claiborne

Blue Eyed Devil - January 27, 2012 reply

Nick Perry looks pretty good

I love the tape I’ve seen on him and he’ll definitely be a 1st round pick.

Yeah, I'm kinda cool on him now

Slowly warming up. Looks better than Upshaw doesn’t have the size concerns that Ingram has, I dunno where’d I place him on the OLB list. Either way, I still want DeCastro.

i think Upshaw will prove to be better then people are expecting

Been on this bandwagon for a while now.

Major conclusions:

1. Even with a rich CB draft, don’t wait until the third round—this is our most immediate plug-and-play need (our statistically worst unit, with one player almost certainly retiring) and the best ones go pretty fast.

2. Even if you think O-line is one of our greater needs, it doesn’t have to be the 1st round—you can often get one of the best couple of Centers/ Guards in the 2nd or 3rd.

3. Even if you wish we had something better than Spencer, “that guy” (in terms of pass rushing) is like gold, and every team wants him. If you don’t draft high (and risky) you’re not drafting someone elite, you’re drafting a likely Almost Anthony lookalike.

I agree about cb, but I only see 1 maybe 2 guys worth the 14th overall pick. I really only think jenoris Jenkins has the talent level and he may not have the character (although I think he does)

And I don’t think Kirkpatrick has the talent level/foot speed to play man to man against the elite receiver corps in the nfl and he never will IMO.

Dynamicduo - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Please, not Jenkins at 14.

Pacman II

I felt the same way for a while and still have mixed feelings.

I don’t think he’s as bad as pacman by any means, but still has concerns. It all depends on how his player interviews go. He’s an idiot for getting caught twice with weed, but it’s just weed, half the pros do drugs. Look at Michael Irvin and he was one of the best players in Dallas history.

Dynamicduo - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

I dunno

If anything he’s Ricky Williams pt. 2. If his friends aren’t violent assholes I’m sure he’ll be fine.

Yay! Colorful tables!

What do all the squiggly characters iinside them mean??

I bet OCC was hell with caryons as a kid.

I am Ironman!!! - January 27, 2012 reply

the wrong assumption here

is that OCC was ever a kid…..

The proper term would be "Beta"

CotySaxman - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Ha ha.Perfect

Here Wolf, corrected:

I bet OCC was hell with font and fill colors when he was a Beta.

Ok, that was funny enough for a Rec.

No Pass Rusher or CB worth the 14th

will likely be there. Frankly I really do not at this time think there is a pass rusher worth the 14th period. All the usual suspects do not make me think they would be much of a improvement over Spencer.

I'd love

to have Upshaw or Ingram at 14. They are certainly worth the 14th pick.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Ingram yeah.

Not so sure about Upshaw, if you’re upset with Spencer (which I am not) I’m pretty sure that Upshaw will leave you sorely disappointed.

I think

Ingram and DeCastro are going to go way earlier than most are thinking. I’m not upset with Spencer, I just think we need to upgrade in the pass rushing department any way how. I’d love to get Ingram in the first.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

If the team believes as you do

They’ll go hard after OL and a pass rusher in FA, I would think.

Whatever significantly improves are team.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Anything earlier than 14 for a guard is way earlier than most people expect guards to go

Steve Hutchinson went 17th as did Iupati, it’d be the Dolphins or Chiefs that’d have to take DeCastro for him to go earlier than expected. The Dolphins might want to implement a new defense and may take Coples if they go 43 or maybe Still if they stay in the 34 or they’d look ILB. The Chiefs may look at ILB or some help on the DL to replace Tyson Jackson.

I agree.

I think none of us really have a clear view as to what we are really going to target in the early rounds because we still have FA. Maybe the Cowboys sign Nicks and pass on DeCastro as well.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Upshaw has been impressive.

A lot of people are talking very highly of him. My choices would be DeCastro>Ingram>Upshaw.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Ehhh...

He’s big, kinda slow, and mainly just uses the bullrush. I’d say pass at 14.

I respect your opinion

but I disagree. Maybe come draft day I will have different opinions on prospects.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

I like Upshaw myself

I think Upshaw has the hunger and fire Spencer doesn’t

I agree Chia, Upshaw is a beast and closes well.

He has the power, other moves can be taught as can technique.

LiveNDieBlue - January 27, 2012 reply

Right...

Because we can accurately gauge a player’s psyche from watching a few games. I mean liking Upshaw is fine, he’s towards the bottom end of players I’d like the Cowboys to take, but I mean, pick a better reason.

+41

rabblerousr - January 27, 2012 reply

I see what you did there.

matt575 - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Chia

You need to explain why you think Upshaw has the hunger and fire that Spencer lacks.

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

yeah, because I don't see it

When I have watched Upshaw play, he looks like a Spencer clone

Well he looked good in the last game that Chia watched

So I guess that means that he has fire and passion that Spencer doesn’t, and the last game that Spencer played he was sucking. So Upshaw = fiery and passionate player and Spencer = lazy choker.

well

Spencer admits to quitting a few years ago
he doesn’t seem to be a willing learner in practice, especially since Charles Haley came to San Antonio the last few years

Mayock kept bringing up how passionate Upshaw was and his hunger

Chia the whole defense quit

Got plenty of tape on Jenkins letting guys walk into the endzone sensy pulling back OK tackles Ratliff stop chasing backs Newman yelling at ball cause he missed an assignment ball and ware was the only two giving it all they had and I say ball cause bless his heart he tried his ass off. Just couldn’t get it done. Spencer just manned up and admitted what everyone else hide behind. Spencer has heart and knows football I’ve talked football with him for over 5 years now he knows where he is lacking but he makes up for it where he excells .

Sado44 - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

I personally think Ingram is worth the 14th pick, but I wonder of Bruce Irvan will be available in the 2nd.

He has a lot of upside and would be a great second round pick if he makes it that far. Combine will tell a lot. I’m like you though, I’m hesitant with janoris Jenkins at 14th, I don’t want Kirkpatrick there, to me it’s decastro or Ingram. But if Jenkins does well at senior bowl and combine I’m ok with him too. I think upshaw may be stretch at 14 but he’s been beasting it at the senior bowl, I want to see his combine numbers too before I make a final decision.

Dynamicduo - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Really?

I can argue Ingram, and Upshaw alone are upgrades over Spencer. Spencer disappears for weeks at a time. Show no intensity or hunger. There will be talent in what ever pass rusher is selected that I believe will surpass Spencer by year 4 if not sooner.

But off of intensity and hunger alone they will be an upgrade. You have a player in Spencer who admitted mailing it in during the 2010 season and it showed he did the same in 2011. Numbers in his case don’t matter not as if they are eye popping but watching his play is uninspiring. New blood needs to be had early and often OLB, De need to be taken in the round 1 corner round 2 baring Nicks is signed

CowboyWay - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Not Upshaw

Upshaw is basically the same player as Spencer, except he’s slower and weaker in pass coverage. Both players are stout against the run, but primarily use the bullrush in the pass rush game. Yeah he had a good National Championship, but A.) that’s one game B.) LSU’s offense sucked something fierce that game

Kinda agree on his ability being similar

But his intensity and hunger far out weighs Spencers. I’m just sick of forgetting Spencer is even on the field or his lazy ways its terrible.

Give me Ingram, Perry, Coples but last of them all Upshaw over Spencer

CowboyWay - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Yeah here's the thing

Upshaw might not even be as good as Spencer. Ingram, Perry, and Coples are all pretty different players, but Upshaw’s game is pretty close. Here’s the thing, Spencer was a perfectly fine player during his tenure in Dallas. They could have done better, but his play was well above average. Upshaw, might not even be that. People were pissed that they went back into the first to grab Spencer, imagine if Upshaw is Spencer, or even a slightly better version of Spencer at 14? Yeah I don’t want that either.

the more I look at Upshaw

The less enamored I am with him

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Same here

Before the draft I liked him quite a bit, then again I thought they’d be picking in the 20s or so, but now…ehhh, no thanks.

prediction time

I will go on record right now and say Courtney Upshaw will be a better NFL player, with more production than Anthony Spencer

friendly bet

anyone else want in?

Ill take it chia game on

Sado44 - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

I disagree with you about Upshaw as a Spencer clone.

Watch Upshaw in games. Call it killer instincts but he gets home and when he sees a guy his acceleration is excellant. You might see it in his combine numbers but you definitely see it in game play. Spencer holds the edge pretty well but he just never gets home. It is a shame we don’t really as yet have anyone to back him up so that loosing him would not present a hole.

LiveNDieBlue - January 27, 2012 reply

A few things...

His acceleration isn’t quite what you’re making it out to be, I’ve watched him on film plenty of times and it varies. Against LSU it was great, maybe it’s because LSU’s offense played like they took ambien before the game, but still it’s just one game. Most importantly, it’s college. He’ll be facing guys like Jason Peters, Bryan Bulaga, and other athletic and powerful linemen. He’ll have to get quite a bit better from where his now in order to be even Spencer. The similarities are shocking, Spencer’s much better in pass coverage and sitting back.

even against LSU, Upshaw's first step was molasses slow

He’s a great college player, but I’m not sure he sudden enough to avoid gettign engulphed by the quicker, more massive pro tackles….

rabblerousr - January 27, 2012 reply

Mike Mayock pointed out

How a decent OT, Cordy Glenn, who is better suited for OG, destroyed Upshaw in 1on1s. Glenn used Upshaw’s lack of explosion and speed against him by basically standing him up and driving him back.

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

We'll see after the combine.

Him killing the Senior Bowl is a good sign though.

Upshaw wasn't really killing the SenBowl after day 1

As the week progressed, the OL in one on one drills started using his weakness against him.

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

That doesn't quite gel with what I was reading.

Scouts seemed to like his performance pretty much every day.

thats what I took away from it too

I don't know who will be bettter but if DeCastro is the BPA at 14 then we should take him, despite our significant need on the defensive side of the ball.

There will be a draft next year too and we will once again have holes to fill as this is more than a 1 year turnaround.

I think we have to look at our drafts as multi-year projects and look at who is coming out next year. If that pass rushing class looks to be elite, and I have no idea that it is, AND DeCastro is the BPA at 14 then we take DeCastro hands down.

Conversely, if outstanding Guards are coming out next year and the pass rusher crop is expected to be much worse than what we can get this season then we should probably snatch Ingram if we can or whoever ppl are high on. I don’t buy into this whole future Hall of Famer thing with DeCastro. That’s such a ridiculously long forecast that it’s nto worth making. I’m sure Tony Mandarich was a surefire future Hall of Famer at one point while guys like Emmitt Smith were considered ‘pretty good’.

AGREED. We aren't ONE YEAR away people!

Keep stockpiling TALENT. If DeCastro is there at 14 grab him and move on to the D.

We'll know after the combine, but I am betting that Perry, Ingram, and Upshaw all show up well there.

Ingram and Upshaw already looked great at the Senior Bowl.

Ingram looked really good

Upshaw struggled more as the week progressed.

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

yeah, I'd much rather have Ingram over Upshaw

me too

I agree, but I wouldn't be so quick to write off Upshaw.

We’ll see how he does at the combine.

I would be fine with Upshaw

real happy
but I just prefer Ingram

the combine wont make a difference in Ingrams or Upshaws value

those guys are already valued & respected highly

Ingram has more moves, Upshaw is more power.

I just like the fact that Ingram has worked to get a variety of moves in his skill set to be able to rush the QB with.

even if there not a huge improvement it would save 5-8 million for other positions.

i’m kinda excited to see what Butler does in training camp if Spencers gone. i rather have extra $ to resign a CB or some extra for L.Robinson. i’m sure theres a pass rusher in the 2nd round but Upshaw, Coples & Ingram all seem legit top 15 talents

If you look carefully, the case against drafting Decastro is building

Especially so if the Cowboys have an equivalent grade on a defensive player.

So let me hypothesize about the alternative at #14. Positionally, it can be argued that the team needs infusion of first-round talent at three defensive positions: OLB, DE and CB.

First, I am going to downgrade CB because I think the Cowboys will likely ding Kirkpatrick and Jenkins for their drug-related issues whatever thoughts to the contrary.

So this is the tough choice for me — DE vs OLB. And the Cowboys can afford to draft one and find the other in FA. Ideally, they would be able to get Campbell or Avril in FA and draft one of Ingram or Upshaw.

But the other option seems more cost effective. The Cowboys could conceivably keep Spencer at reasonable value and draft a D Lineman like Brockers, or my likely pick, Perry.

Correct me if I'm wrong but perry is only 6'3 250 wayyyy to small for a 3-4 DE, he's a 4-3 DE

Dynamicduo - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Perry would have to be converted to an OLB

Antonio S - January 27, 2012 reply

Perry is a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Gosh, you guys might be right

I’ve got Perry stuck in my head as a DE

Everything will depend who we sign in FA

If we can’t land Nicks or another top guard I think Decastro is a no brainer if he’s there at 14.

Accidental Innuendo - I don't buy the 'case against DeCastro'. Essentially it's a cost benefit analysis...whats Nicks gonna cost vs DeCastro?

assuming similar production over the long term.

U draft DeCastro @ #14 and only have to pay him 10-12mil over 4 years.(2mil/yr avg) vs. Nicks maybe 8-10mil/yr. And then even if u can’t afford both of the top DE and CB in FA this year, you just get one now and buy the other one next year(or draft him) Infuse a few nice prospects into these positions as well(voila u got quality depth where u didn’t have it before…NO?)

Also you aren’t cap strapped going forward, and you can fill other also glaring needs on this roster. Until u fix the leaks….this team is going NOWHERE.

We’re at least 2 years away…unless u catch that magic in the bottle a la GMEN 07 & 11. You wanna count on that?

And again...Im not MARRIED to one 'Name'. Take the BPA at #14...

but you better have all the scenarios mapped out. like that chart that tells u when to kick the XP or go for 2pt conversion. It’s allot of permutations if u think about it.

Basically yer gonna have to modify your draft to who u sign in FA which starts first.

Building?

Building as in there’s more posters here insinuating that tehy shouldn’t. If Still’s gone there isn’t a DE, and unless Upshaw blows up the combine there won’t be an OLB worth taking over DeCastro.

Some of us have been doing much more than insinuating haha.

If DeCastro is there at #14

We must pick him. He’s too dominant a player to pass up.

Ain't going to happen, Jerry's not spending another #1 pick on an O-lineman.

But I’d be fine with picking DeCastro.

Dire, I honestly think he'll be gone before we pick, but if he's there, we'll know who calls the shots at draft time once and for all. JG would pick him, so, if he's there and we don't grab him, JJ is doing his thing again.

The message I'm getting is they want a vet O-lineman.

Right now it seems this will be D draft, I have no problem with that as long as they don’t reach. BPA is still the best way to go, IMO.

the message I'm getting

Is that one vet OL and add another 2 guys in the draft.

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

So how is it

I’m not getting ANY messages? Do you have to sign up for this stuff

One.Cool.Customer - January 27, 2012 reply

You’re not wearing your tin-foil hat, that’s why.

Oh

Well, if you’re sure about this, I guess I’ll wear one….

Now THAT is funny

matt575 - January 29, 2012 via mobile reply

See, I've got mine on.

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2012/01/teasing-out-cowboys-off-season.html

Interviews and messages from inside sources.

A coach mentioned needing a vet to help steady and teach the young guys we have now. And Broaddus mentioned that Valley Ranch was much more concerned about a C than about a G to get.
Plus a FA C would be much cheaper to sign than a FA G, skill equal. That would leave more $ to sign a pass rusher or a CB FA.

Meyers or Saturday

actually theres a fe decent vet FA centers on the market

Yeah the OL realistically needs at least two players for sure.

One at Center and one to replace either Koiser or Lumpy. Ideally they’ll get a Center that’s a solid player, nothing special but at least average. As for the other guard it’ll probably be Lumpy again if he’s willing to go year to year, Nicks if his price is reasonable, but I don’t see that happening. So lets say they have a Center and Lumpy back in fold. Well they still need to upgrade their interior line play and draft a Center they can look at to take over in the future, if they aren’t satisfied with Kowalski or Costa. Maybe even a back up tackle later in the draft.

at 14 if Decastro is there

he will be the number one player in the draft at his position easily; and worth a first rd pick. Of who else can that be said?

Best at his position

Well probably not. But there’s definitely a few others that’d be worth the pick. Still, I want DeCastro first and foremost.

Upshaw is rated #1 LB

I realize Decastro has achieved some mythical status here at BTB

But it could still be that the Cowboys have a defensive player that they rate similarly. In that case, I am proposing that they pick the defenseman.

One player does not, and should not, a draft make. The long game is obviously to what extent have the Cowboys filled the holes on their roster before next season begins.

I disagree

DeCastro is rated among the 10 best prospects in this draft regardless of position and if a top 10 guy falls into your lap at 14, especially when it is a huge position of need, you jump on it.

Defense is definitely a need going into the draft, but so is the interior OL, both are equally important.

WHAT ABOUT NT!!!

That is a major reason our DE & LOLB can’t get to the QB!

mho - January 27, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Good point

You may be right. The Cowboys seem to grade players differently than us fans (obviously) and media draftniks.

Could Poe be a dark horse candidate at #14? What if he turns in a terrific performance at the Combine?

Poe is no different than any other player

If he is the BPA available at 14, we should take him but I highly doubt he will be rated that high on the Cowboys board.

Cuz they're probably ignoring the postion...

I highly doubt he will be rated that high on the Cowboys board

As they do every year since starting the 3-4. Only decent sized linemen they took a chance at drafting high was Marcus Spears and Chris Canty but ignorned NT since the start. Been trying the diamond in the rough approach the whole time while they stuck a DE in the spot.

CodeNamedG - January 28, 2012 reply

get talent period

I say get upshaw and trade back in the first to get Jenkins the guy has shut down ability sign a guard and saftey

slickman26 - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

CB class in this years draft is deep but no real elite prospects

I really don’t like any CBs in the first round other than Claiborne and IMO he is no where near the prospect Peterson was last year.

The rest of the top CBs have their red flags so I highly doubt we go CB at 14, I think we’ll target that position after the first round.

I agree, the only other cb with top 15 talent is janoris Jenkins IMO and that's debatable.

We need to get a good FA cb to fill the void. Ther isn’t a rookie that is going to come in this year and improve our D that much. First round pass rusher is the way to go IMO. But what sucks us if we do that we need both a gaurd and CB in the 2nd, unless we get a really good cb, then we could go gaurd in the 2nd and BPA in the third. FA will tell a lot

Dynamicduo - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

I agree with you Terry.

The CB’s left on the board won’t be a good fit for #14, much better to pick one up in the 2nd and even another one in the 3rd or 4th.

Clairborne is not as good as peterson as a return man

But scouts agree he’s a much better pure cover corner. Give me clairborne over Peterson every time.

matt575 - January 29, 2012 via mobile reply

Slightly different perspective

In my mind we are definitely losing Newman, Brookings, James, and possibly Kozier as “starters”. In the case of Newman, we don’t have even a serviceable backup, so that position must be addressed in FA or Rd 1 or 2. On the O-line, we have bodies, but not starters at G, C, G. My strategy would be to grab a CB and an OL in FA. On D-line, we have a similar situation but perhaps more potential talent in the existing backups (Brent, Lissimore). Therefore, I’d make it a priority to take a G or C in FA to replace Kozier or Costa and roll with 1 of the young guys and Holland or his competition to keep a mix of experience and youth. Then I’d target CB or DE in Rd1 depending on the quality of player left at 14. I’d stick with Spencer but not overpay. I’d look at a NT, DE or OLB in Rd2 unless I missed the CB in Rd1, followed by a S or a second CB, OL in Rd 3. BTW, whatever happened to Victor Butler? I saw some pass rushing potential in him on and off.

Silverblue - January 27, 2012 reply

I think Butler is all pass rush and no run stop

Limiting how much he can be used.

LRogue - January 27, 2012 reply

Is Butler one of these guys

that Woicek (sp?) can work miracles with? It just seems a shame to jettison people like Spencer and Butler when they do have talents, albeit maybe not everything in one package (or they’d be Ware-like). Don’t know if he has the frame to add heft. Alternatively, maybe he just doesn’t have the Sean Lee instincts as a run stopper. Perhaps the question is, is Butler’s pass rush superior to Spencer’s run stuffing? I happen to think Spencer is pretty good on the run and average in rush.

Silverblue - January 27, 2012 reply

Good questions all

And I don’t have answers. However, I do know that tackling someone that is trying to escape and tackling someone that is trying to go through you are not the same.

LRogue - January 27, 2012 reply

You would think that Butler has some speed

if he’s able to mount a decent pass rush. I’m beginning to wonder just how much of what we see is because of scheme. I’ve seen Spencer covering a back out of the backfield and he was in as tight of coverage as Newman on a WR (understanding the dissimilarity of the example), telling me that perhaps Spencer is asked to play run first, and rush passer second. Maybe Butler is asked to do the opposite. Just hope they don’t give up too easily on Butler. We’ve got to get more production out of these type of players instead of feeling the need to replace them with a Mario Williams at the cost of 3 other positions.

Silverblue - January 27, 2012 reply

That's a part of it for sure

if they’ve asked Spencer to do certain things, that would be one factor in how they evaluate his value to the team and whether he needs to be replaced. It’ll be interesting.

If they sign Nicks, you can roll with the other guys fighting for the other 2 interior spots and draft all D early.
OR:
If they sign Carr or Finegan, then you can get a corner in rd 3-4 and take a G/C in rd 2.
Either way you take your pass rusher early, as they go fast and they’re nearly impossible to get as FAs. (I like W.Mercilus: 16 sacks, 22 TFL, 9 FF: this D needs playmakers and he has the knack.)

DB23 - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Hopefully they will be able to address the critical positions of need in free-agency

…and take BPA in he draft. The team needs follows your chart (DE/OLB, CB, G/C). This makes me think two things 1- it is really difficult to get top pass rushers and cornerback and 2- wow have the Cowboys gotten lucky at WR.

I must say this is the first year in a long-long time that I have the impression that the Cowboys fully understand where the team is lacking and what needs to be addressed. Even Parcells seemed to not be completely sure what positions to address first. It may be JG’s demeanor or the fact that Jerry trusts him more than the previous coaches (and is thus allowing Stephen to make the GM/ownership decisions), but it sure gives me more confidence in the future than I’ve had in a long time.

LRogue - January 27, 2012 reply

What about Poe?

I know very little about him. Except he is 350lbs and runs in 4.9’s. Reports are he’s extremely strong. Not all pass rush had to be off the edge. What are your thoughts? With jerry expressing his desire to “keep” bruce/lee clean to roam could this make sense. Then also ratliff to DE. could help pass rush.

gasman8 - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

I have him as a traget in the first rd

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

I've been screaming this for a while!!!

Move Rat to LDE, draft Poe. This gets a pass rushing DE and the true NT this 3-4 has lacked since Ferguson got hurt. If AS is resigned it could also improve his sack production immensely.

mho - January 27, 2012 via iPhone app reply

It's been talked about before

A lot of folks want a giant NT.

No team in their right mind will take Jenkins in the 1st round.

The guy has character problems, if he gets kicked off the Fla. Gators team he’s a problem. Don’t want Pacman II.

I hope youre right

So we can take him in the 2nd.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

I don't want him in any round.

He can be someone elses problem.

I'd be pretty excited to have him.

He’s got the talent to be a shutdown corner. We need talent in our secondary like that badly.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

wasn't he kicked off as a Freshmen?

He seems like a 1st rounder to me

As a junior I think

he did his senior year at North Alabama.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Three drug arrest in college, two within three months of each other.

He’s either plenty dumb or a problem or both, in any case I’d stay away from him.

I highly doubt Garrett will want someone with those kinds of issues

Antonio S - January 27, 2012 reply

He had two drug arrests.

The other arrest was for a fight where he said he was defending himself from someone stealing the chain arouind his neck. He got deferred prosecution for that arrest so legally it was amnesty. He admitted no guilt and the arrest was expunged once his probation was completed. Just trying to be accurate.

jevans1729 - January 27, 2012 reply

Don't be in places where people would steal "your chain"

Hes a punk.

Not from what

his coaches at both Florida and N. Alabama have said. Supposedly comes from a solid family structure and is a good kid. This is simple. He is going to be tested. He either pisses hot at the Senior Bowl/Combine or he doesn’t. If he is not doing drugs, then he is not a problem. A person with no drug history could sign their contract and smoke crack the next day. (See Len Bias)

jevans1729 - January 27, 2012 reply

But he has a drug history and history has told us majority of drug users can't stay away.

I'm pretty sure NFL drug tests can be beaten

A lean and muscular guy like Jenkins can mask a urine sample easier than most people can.

Just sayin…

he comes from a small town actually

Pahokee is a big football town that is tiny

Somebody is a threat to steal

anything of yours at any given time. He’s made mistakes and he’s owned up to them. If he has good interviews and so happens to get drafted by the Cowboys in the 2nd or later, I would be very happy.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

where im from we don't even lock our doors.

Probably because everyone hear has a gun haha.

Here's one thing I hope he steals

The ball from Eli.

Yes. Exactly.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

yeah man he is a big time talent

just a risky pick though

So was Pacman.

don't forget the Hurd factor

we barely got rid of him in time; and I am sure Jerruh remembers. So no one with a drug history is coming here.

Hurd was a special variety of idiot.

His NFL career was about over so he used what money he could to buy drugs so he can support himself.

still he was with the Boys for years

and Jerruh has to be thinking about that. Jerruh has shown little interest in these last few years with players with drug histories.

He wasn't buying cocaine by the Kilo in Dallas.

Or was he? I recall him just being terrible.

Well, he came under investigation by the police while in Dallas.

He had several thousand dollars in his car. And I believe the bag the money was in tested positive for MJ residue, or something like that.

Grimlock83 - January 27, 2012 reply

Really?

I missed that.

Like $80k.

Rumors are that is a major reason we didn’t try to resign him.

It's interesting to see the diminishing value of DT's

DT’s start off as valued on the top end as DEs, but their desirability diminishes as the draft goes on

Running Backs

have the biggest drop off between the 2nd and 3rd player, it seems to me, when compared to CBs or WRs. Like DTs, after you get past elite players, it seems the NFL views the players as generic

We need to move up and draft a young, talented, coordinated quarterback if we even want to make the playoffs next year.

Brandon10 - January 27, 2012 reply

31 TDs and 10 INTs tell me Romo is not the problem

Protecting Romo is the problem.

Agree, Romo definitely isn't the problem, anyone who thinks he is doesn't watch the damn games.

or is simply a hater

Well...

“watching the games”

Detroit and the Jets. So the numbers help Romo more than watching the games.

christ guys think how many games Giants fans blame Eli for.

Hopefully they'll be blaming him for one next Sunday.

Why do so many of you keep forgetting

that if it wasn’t for Romo’s great play in the Jets and Detriot games up until the INTs, we wouldn’t have even been in a position to even win those games.

Romo supporter full up right here

I just hate the “WATCH THE GAMES” argument

oh

I watched the games.

If Romo didn’t choke vs the Lions and Jets, and didn’;t get absolutely embarrassed by the Eagles, we would have been in the playoffs (probably been eliminated in the first round anyways. Romo would throw a pick in the end-zone and game over).

Brandon10 - January 27, 2012 reply

and if Romo didn't carry the team the remaining games

we would have been lucky to win 4 games…hater.

not a hater

I love this team, but seriously. Look at what the quarterbacks in the NFC have done in the playoffs and then take a look at what Romo has done.

Eli, Brees, Rodgers have won Super Bowls. Cutler went to the conference championship. Mike Vick carried one of the worst teams of the decade all the way to the conference championship. I also guess you can add Alex Smith.

What in the world has Romo done? 13 pro bowlers in 2007, AND THEY ARE ELIMINATED IN THE FIRST ROUND. Jesus. Romo needs to go. We aren’t winning the division next year. It’s a guarantee.

The Redskins are going to end up with a better record than us if they draft RGIII. It’s sickening.

Brandon10 - January 27, 2012 reply

You are among the most repetitive posters here. Do you have anything real or logical to contribute?

I mean it’s OK. Everyone has to be known for something, so at least you stand out…

He is just a troll.

He has just changed from his copy and paste about Romo sitting on a couch drinking beer.

Yeah cause Romo

Will NEVER get us to the playoffs!!! Come on man!!! If we didn’t have Romo Dallas would be picking in the top 5 in the last few drafts. He’s a great QB with a terrible interior line and below average D. But your right Romo is the only reason Dallas has done so poorly!

mho - January 27, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Actually, this makes a weird sort of sense. . . .

without Romo we would have lost almost all of our games the last five years—which means we would have had way better draft picks—which means we’d have better talent on defense and a better shot at the the playoffs. So Romo is the reason Dallas has not succeeded!

I want DeCastro, but I honestly think that he'll be gone before we pick. He's too good to pass up.

That leaves Ingram, Upshaw, Jenkins, and maybe Still left.

Ingram arguably is the best pass rusher, has the most versatlity, a great first step and is a great athlete. If someone is looking fo a pass rusher, I’d be surprised if he isn’t the first one picked.

Upshaw is a beast. He’s strong, relenless and despite his average to above average initial burst, for his size displays good movement and decent speed. He will probably be there at #14.

Jenkins has the talent. He may have the best skill set of any of the CBs. His one drawback is his character. He kept his nose clean at N Alabama. Can he keep it clean in Big D? If we draft him they should have a clause that he cannot hang with DEZ. He’ll be there at #14, but I’d rather get him in Round 2.

Still might be the sleeper. He’s the best DE in this draft. He’s no Suh, and not a sexy pick. While rated highly I’m not 100% convinced he’s worth # 14. I guess it’s the same Dilemma as with DeCastro. Do you draft an OG or a 3-4 DE this early in the draft.

Any thoughts on my analysis?

Jenkins concerns me but I haven't looked into it enough to really have an opinion one way or the other.

From what I understand, and your analysis here, Upshaw is Spencer all over again. I happen to think Spencer fits well in this defense if we can find another pressure player at another spot. At any rate, it doesn’t make sense to me to replace what we have with a younger version of that whne we aren’t getting the explosiveness out of what we have right now. Just stick with what’s on the roster and pick another guy.

What if we took another position and passed on Ingram, or he was picked b4 we had a chance? In that event, what do you think about a guy like Tyrone Crawford in the 4th or 5th round (I think he will rise post combine)? IMO, lots and lots of upside (he started playing football in HS up in Canada) with Ingram like measurements. The problem for him is that he has faced so little elite competition that he is either underrated or unknown. To me, this guy is the definition of a sleeper pick.

Crawford lacks speed. I haven't watched him play that much, though. We get some Boise State

games out here, but mostly the PAC 12. I think Upshaw has a great motor and is a better player than Spencer, but he’s not Ingram. I’m not one of those that think Spence is all that bad. Crawford, though would come cheap, but would be no better than Spence and might not be as good. Crawford more a 6-7 round pick. I love Bruce Irvin and the kid from syracuse Chandler Jones.

Crawford's speed (4.85) is in Ingram's category (4.82) and he is 2 inches taller and 9 pounds heavier right now. Both are slower than Coples.

I think he probably projects better as a 4-3 DE given his ability to pass rush with both a bull rush and athletic stop and go/swim and rip moves. We’ll have to wait for combine results (shuttle and 3 cone drill will give better comparisons for initial burst and agility) but I think Crawford’s potential is at least equal to Ingram’s and he comes at a much cheaper price.

He doesn’t have elite speed, especially if projected as a LB’er…but he is stride for stride with Ingram and so it would be a wash for both of them.

For a standard we can use D’Ware’s numbers…6’4" 251, 4.56 40, 4.07 shuttle, 27 bench reps, 6.85 3 cone, 38.5 Vertical.

I’m not a fan of workout warrior measurements but when on field production is there, and athletic potential seems apparent, then I like numbers so I can compare to known superior athletes.

Ingram will run better than a 4.82

those times you see, are projections, not actual times, so don’t get too caught up when you see those
after the combine, then we know the real numbers

WILCO, thx for the hot tip Chia

Can we get a consensus about who will the tfirst 15 players taken in this draft?

Luck, Kalil, RGIII, Claiborne, Reiff, Martin, Blackmon, Kirkpatrick?, Coples, Richardson, DeCastro, Ingram, Wright, Jeffrey, Brockers

Perry, Kuechly, Upshaw, Floyd on the cusp.

After the combine it will gel a lot more.

While other teams have had success finding OL talent later in the draft, we have not.

DeCastro at 14 is a no brainer and I think everyone in the FO realizes that.

very true

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Taking free agency out of the equation

This is how the Cowboys have to view each round according to positions of need and which of these positions will have impact players for them

First Rd: G, 34OLB, C, 34DT, CB, SS
Second Rd: 34DE, CB, G, 34OLB, C, FS
Third Rd: CB, SS, FS, ILB, G, 34DT
Fourth Rd: C, 34DE, 34DT, G, CB
Fifth Rd: CB, 34DT, G/C, FS, 34OLB
Sixth Rd: BPA
Seventh Rd: BPA

You can take your guess as to which players I’m targeting where, but this is how I think the Cowboys would rank the positions of need in rounds 1-5 based on value and availability of impact players.

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

How about

OLB Melvin Ingram 14
DE Jared Crick 44
FS Markelle Martin 82
CB Jamell Fleming 113
DT Akiem Hicks 144
OG Mitchell Shwartz 175
TE Chase Ford 213

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Nice draft but Tony's still running for his life.

I know

we have so many needs. Should probably take a guard in the 2nd or 3rd.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

You don't really need an elite defense

The defense was about average last year, replace Newman with an actual Cornerback and it gets a hell of a lot better.

Our O-line play wasn't as bad as you're suggesting

and we have three reasons to think it gets better WITHOUT an infusion of talent:

1. Tron to LT (Free was getting owned, but is a great RT)
2. Some of the best O-linemen in the league played poorly their first year on the field. Young talent (esp. Nagy and Arkin, but possibly Kowalski and Costa) are at a stage in their career when dramatic improvement is still quite plausible. They might not be the answer, but they might.
3. As if #2 weren’t enough, no infusion of new O-linemen (not even talented veterans) works unless they are given a chance to gel as a unit. An actual off-season makes a HUGE difference to any team that is rebuilding its line—especially if that off-season is guided by a proven commodity at O-line-coach, which we now have.

None of this proves that we have the talent we need. But it does give us reason to hope that the solution is in-house. We have a lot of holes in a lot of places, and the sky won’t fall if the O-line isn’t the focus this year. A BPA draft that’s heavy on our defensive needs is just fine with me.

Of course, if you can make the interior line stronger with a strong 2nd-rounder that’s fine, too.

no the interior line play was actually worse than he's suggesting

Oh yeah

The running game was ranked like 26th in DVOA, consistently getting stuffed, no luck in killing the clock, nor were they particularly good at getting the ball into the endzone.

you can polish turds all day

but they still stink

pass

umm no boyman the oline was in fact pretty bad

maybe we weren’t watching the same games but the interior is definitely a huge need i don’t even think its debatable.. Holland & Kosier are up there in age, Arkin was a project, Nagy maybe he’ll pan out but i’m not confident, killer K looked decent but Costa was terrible.

I understand that lineman don’t typically break out till their 3rd season which would be ok if romo was younger & he hadn’t been badly injured the past 3 of 4 seasons but rite now that simply is not the case.. So yes maybe the sky won’t fall but our qb will be looking @ the sky constantly if they don’t get the interior shored up asap.. If DeCastro is the BPA @ 14 then u absolutely take him no question.

DarkKnight88 - January 30, 2012 reply

Flemming's a great pick in round 4.

I hope he falls that far.

BrickTop - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Shwartz and Hicks were not guys I had in mind

I like the first 4 guys and Chase Ford though

Rohpuri - January 27, 2012 via mobile reply

Hicks is huge and might surprise at NT.

Jaymanburlington - January 27, 2012 reply

I'd like to see

Free Agency answer two of the three C/G/Corner
And use the top three picks for Pass Rusher and OLine and a second corner.

Dream pick would be Corner, OL, Corner in the draft but getting a pass rusher in FA is unlikely.

I like 3-4 DE & Corner in FA

Our defense sucked, straight up. It needs some attention in FA and via draft, but it needs the more immediate help. So, I say go after Calais Campbell or Jason Jones + Brandon Carr or Grimes.

I don’t see any 3-4 OLBs out there worth spending FA money on, but maybe I’m unaware. Then Castro in 1st + Irvin or Chandler Jones in 2nd. OR Ingram + Osemele in 2nd.

That would drastically improve the OL and DL, which is where we need it. Naturally helping that swiss cheese secondary too.

ATX Cowboy - January 27, 2012 reply

If we do one thing this off season in FA and/or the draft,

it must to protect Tony or we go no where.

See my reply to you

above.

Romo goes down the season is over

and we still need to find a short yardage run game.

Both those goals could be acheived with a significant upgrade of our interior O line.

With Murray healthy and a FB

we’re solving the run game. And when it comes to QBs going down, the only relevant statistic (how long on average before the defense hits the quarterback) simply isn’t available.

That said, I distrust fans who are always complaining that the QB ever gets hit. Do you really think any O-line will keep Romo from getting hit? Have you even checked a non-partisan site (i.e., one that grades more than one O-line, rather than a fan who just sits there and winces when Romo gets sacked but doesn’t really notice or care when other QBs across the league get sacked)?

We poured a lot into this O-line last draft, which is great, but we can’t ignore the league’s worst secondary just because we dream of a perfect pass protection.

but yes we have to address the secondary this year.

both FS & CB. Were in a great position though – we’re FLUID, its a possibility we will have the opportunity to draft a decent FS and hire a top-tier CB in FA maybe even D-line help!

I think its possible that if the ‘brain-trust’ did it right we could make the Offense elite and the Def above average. It gives you a fighting chance.

we poured the top pic

and then a 4th and a 7th, Neither of which did much for us and one might never.
So frankly considering we lost 3 starters (Kosier is all but gone) and really only have 2 now- your claim we are not in need is BS.

And yes every qb GETS HIT. But I guess you missed all the injuries Romo had this year. Were they imaginery?

i'd love to see a nasty FB drafted or an undrafted rookie added after the draft.

the Giants stole that kid Hynoski (sp) going undrafted. what got me was there wasnt any secret about him being a great FB in the draft

from Callahans quotes it shounded like a vet FA was the way he fixed the Ol in NY

it reminded him of the situation in Dallas with Tyron, Free, Nagy, Killer K , Costa Kosier & Arkin which is why he took the job.
rookie OL struggle & with Smith moving to the LT position it would be smart to get a Guard in FA to go next to him. i’m sure filling the other Guard spot should be easy to fill with guys in house but i’m curious to see how they handle the center position.

A 1st a 4th and a 7th.

Not exactly ‘pouring it on’ would I say. That project has not been completed…

in response to bowman above.

I'm in favor of taking a BPA approach with a slight nod towards our needs; i.e. I wouldn't draft a RB in Round 1 no matter his talent level.

Quality teams are built from the lines out imo, so I would look very hard at that before taking a corner or skill position player. I like how the NYG put it; our pass rush is our secondary.

There is a draft next year as well. In fact, I would love some discussion by our editors and community here on next year’s top prospects. I would like to see this well after draft day so we can get our initial discussions of this season’s draft out of the way first.

Long term planning leads to long term success. We need to build a team here, lay the foundations now with BPA and then specialize from there. I believe that if this organization tries to patch things up and become Super Bowl eligible immediately, it will never even sniff the opportunity. Build a strong foundation, gain quality players, don’t give into desperation or panic.

I want more trophies in the case, S.F. is threatening, Pittsburgh has already pulled away, and New England is on a tear that eclipses everyone. The Dallas Cowboys are a step away from being irrelevant in the National Football League and we need to stop, take a deep breath, and right this ship from the hull on up to the mast point.

We've already spent years building our pass rush, but we can't completely ignore the secondary.

I like how the NYG put it; our pass rush is our secondary.

Funny, I thought those 4 DBs on their roster who were drafted in the first round and at least 2 who were drafted in the second round were their secondary.

krl97a - January 27, 2012 reply

DAMN! Well said...

I think i just had a tear roll down my cheek…

Are you lumping in 4-3 DEs with 3-4 DEs?

Because that can skew the average. In know there’s some overlap, but guys who are clearly 4-3 DEs obviously aren’t pertinent to the Cowboys right now.

krl97a - January 27, 2012 reply

That's WHY I've Been Saying

Take a pass rusher in the first round a CB in the second and MAYBE the third, then find a CENTER in the fourth.

Howleyesque - January 28, 2012 reply

Very nice breakdown, OCC

It’s definitely interesting to see which positions are valued more than others.

I was actually surprised to see that OT didn’t have 4 go in the 1st round on average. I can think of some drafts that had 5 OT’s or more, but I guess that’s not the norm.

Smitty2K3 - January 28, 2012 reply

i'm going to be honest

i trust Garrett, J.Robinson & Callahan 100% but i’m still not a 100% buyer into Rob Ryans defenses. anytime a coaches ego gets in the way its always a problem & until i see a something good with my eyes i just cant trust him.
i thought he was going to improve the defense way more then what i saw this season. i’m all for the coaches only being able to coach & its up to the players to execute it on the field. i didnt see the mid game changes to force teams to go else where with the ball & Robs ego hurt his playcalling/game planing more then a few games imo

great work OOC & thanks for your time