NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock released his top five players per position late yesterday. Rotoworld's Evan Silva has the full rankings here, but I’m going to focus on the positions of need for the Cowboys.
First up, the top five interior offensive linemen.
1. David DeCastro, Stanford
2. Peter Konz, Wisconsin
3. Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
4. Cordy Glenn, Georgia
5. Kelechi Osemele, Iowa State
There’s a pretty good chance that one of these guys will be wearing a Cowboys uniform soon. DeCastro is the current fan favorite for the Cowboys' first pick, but if the Cowboys go in a different direction with their first pick, one of the other names could come into play. Of note, while Cordy Glenn has been widely touted as the second best guard in the draft, Mayock likes Wisconsin's Kevin Zeitler ahead of Glenn.
After the break, we look at corners, DEs/OLBs and defensive tackles.
Cornerback is easily one of the Cowboys' biggest needs for next year. Like the guard position, this is a need that the Cowboys could and perhaps should address via free agency with guys like Cortland Finnegan, Brent Grimes or Brandon Carr. But nobody is going to complain if the Cowboys pick a corner high. Apropos of high, Mayock is not so high on Dre Kirkpatrick, whom he ranks behind relatively unheralded Leonard Johnson out of Iowa State.
Cornerbacks
1. Morris Claiborne, LSU
2. Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama
3. Alfonzo Dennard, Nebraska
4. Leonard Johnson, Iowa State
5. Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama
Next up are the DEs/OLBs, which may be a position to focus on as a Cowboys fan. The Cowboys were looking very hard at taking J.J. Watt last year and with Anthony Spencer possibly moving on to greener pastures, un upgraded pass rush certainly wouldn't hurt the Cowboys.
Somewhat surprisingly, Mayock doesn't include Courtney Upshaw out of Alabama in this ranking, instead putting him at the top of the inside linebacker ranking. Upshaw did play OLB in Alabama's 3-4 defense, so from a Cowboys point of view he should be on this list, probably battling Ingram for the second spot.
Defensive Ends/OLBs
1. Quinton Coples, North Carolina
2. Melvin Ingram, South Carolina
3. Whitney Mercilus, Illinois
4. Nick Perry, USC
5. (tie) Chandler Jones*, Syracuse and Andre Branch, Clemson
I’ll also include defensive tackles here because many Cowboys fans like the idea of some big guys in the middle of the defensive line, but it remains to be seen whether the Cowboys have any interest in a top five defensive tackle.
Defensive Tackles
1. Devon Still, Penn State
2. Jerel Worthy, Michigan State
3. Michael Brockers, LSU
4. Brandon Thompson, Clemson
5. (tie) Fletcher Cox, Mississippi State and Dontari Poe, Memphis
Another surprising ranking here. Mayock doesn't appear to be as enamored with Michael Brockers as many others are, and even has Clemson's Brandon Thompson ahead of the Dontari Poe and Fletcher Cox.
Of course, what we don't see in any of these rankings is how big the gaps are between the individual players or which round Mayock projects them for. But it does give us a better feeling for the overall positional rankings. As rabblerousr wrote last year, Mayock is one of the few draft analysts he relies on to "establish my conception of how players should be graded and where they should be slotted", so these rankings do carry some weight for us and it's not unrealistic to expect perhaps two of the names on these rankings to end up playing for the Cowboys.
2 recs | 423 comments
First
connery - January 24, 2012
DE/OLB
Shouldn’t these be two seperate lists, at least for the Cowboys needs.
lelaco - January 24, 2012
We’ll figure it out. . .
connery - January 24, 2012
They overlap but there is some difference.
Also the Cowboys have Spencer. A DE could make Spencer seem better,
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
I’m to the point where I think only more talent could make Spencer look better.
GunsUp - January 24, 2012
Well technically
the Cowboys don’t have Spencer, they have history with him.
ary201 - January 24, 2012
I believe....
That the mean 4-3 DE, which equates to 3-4 OLB.
jtgreet02 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Is DeCastro really that much better than all of the other interior lineman? If he is available come draft day that will be something only the Cowboys’ insiders know.
connery - January 24, 2012
yes, he is
just4fun - January 24, 2012
he's the best Guard in the draft for sure
but I don’t buy in to the whole “best Guard prospect in years” mantra.
He’s probably the only G prospect I would have a 1st round grade on (Konz would be the only other interior lineman with a 1 grade) so in that regard DeCastro has separated himself.
But I’m not sure if the difference is so big you have to take DeCastro if you have other players with similar grades available at 14.
For instance, if the Cowboys were to pick a top corner or pass rusher in the first and end up with a guy like Zeitler or Glenn in rounds 2-3 I think the line would be just as good.
You don’t need 5 studs on the Oline to have a dominant Oline, you just can’t have any glaring weaknesses (Costa). Oline is the only position group where you have to judge the group as a whole since one or two star players doesn’t give you an great position group.
TK19 - January 24, 2012
I agree with you
the elite defensive talent is gonna dry up fast and I would rather take a defensive guy in the 1st and Zeitler in the 2nd
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
I got a question
What does the BEST OG IN YEARS look like? How does he play? What makes you so sure DeCastro isn’t?
Did Larry Allen receive accolades as the best when coming out of college? Steve Hutchinson? No, they didn’t. But they ended up being that.
So, when when more than one draft analyst (guys who get PAID to scout prospects) mentions this, I pay attention. Maybe DeCastro isn’t one of the best in years – he’s still GOOD. His floor is still higher than any OG on the roster currently.
And, just think . . . what if what everyone is saying is correct?
Tyrone Jenkins - January 25, 2012
Actually Hutchinson was.
He didn’t allow a sack his final two seasons in the college and he was taken with the 17th overall pick. Not too many guards are taken in the first round, especially then when football evaluation was still in the dark ages. Larry Allen…well he just got so much bigger and stronger than he was in college and his technique improved greatly, that’s one of those situations where he just made a huge jump. Everyone thought he’d be good…that good? Oh hells to the no.
Omar Little - January 25, 2012
I think you want
all 5 guys to be way above average. The bookend Tackles have to protect against the outside rush, while the two guards and center have to protect against the EQUALLY dangerous push up the middle.
My favorite blitz is to overload both “A” gaps.
The key to any draft is how deep a position is. If there are plenty of way above average Guards and Centers in this draft, I might agree with taking one in the 2nd round. Larry Allen did well from that round….:)
But, if there are plenty of Corners and Rush Linebackers, more so than O-Line, then we should take DeCastro since he is the best guard by far in this draft…..according to those who know much more than I do.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
I'm good with Konz in the 1st and moving Costa to RG
but we might miss out on both by going after the top CB… have to settle for a Zeitler. Also depends what’s available in Free Agency.
scraig - January 24, 2012
So, you'd trade Tyron Smith for a pretty good replacement, not a stud,
for a pretty good CB?
Do you work for the Cowboys talent evaluation team?
Joey2zs - January 24, 2012
reportedly, Alfonszo Denard has looked bad thus far. and he's only 5'10"
just4fun - January 24, 2012
I think part of that is they're discouraged from playing the press during these senior bowl and east west shrine games
I’m not big on dennard, but he relies on press coverage. His speed is subpar, supposedly around 4.5 forty time, so he will live and die by the press. I just don’t think he has the height to defend today’s tall #1 & #2 WRs. I’m high on Chandler Jones right now, I think he has the highest ceiling of this year’s crop of pass rushers.
matt575 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I do wonder tho if dennard would be better suited to get looks as a fs than corner
nicholas.rodriguez - January 24, 2012 via mobile
In practice, it’s mostly press so far.
JimmyK - January 24, 2012 via mobile
you are there, correct?
what do you think of him?
HudBaby - January 24, 2012
Huge legs. Like tree trucks. Has some obvious power there. The knock on him so far has been that he doesn’t turn his hips well. I saw it once. Can’t remember who it was, but he got smoked deep once. I don’t think he’s a first round pick. There are better corners here.
JimmyK - January 24, 2012
I think I have Dennard
as the third corner taken but with a borderline first round grade.
I would not touch Dennard with a top 20 pick
TK19 - January 24, 2012
and Janoris Jenkins
is growing on me more and more and might move past Dennard soon
TK19 - January 24, 2012
he's bigger than Dennard too
which was something I didn’t expect. I really hate short corners
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
I'd project Denard as more of a safety, like Bob Sanders, only more durable.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
Wait until the combine. I've heard that Denard may only be 5'8''.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
senior bowl weigh ins confirmed him at 5'10
matt575 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
That's good news, forgot that they weigh in and measure height at the Senior Bowl.
Still like him as a safety rather than CB.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
he got burn real bad in the bowl game
milkman - January 24, 2012
Thanks OCC.
Rena - January 24, 2012
If the Cowboys can ever get pressure with their front 4,
and give Tony more than 2.5 seconds to throw before ending up laying at his feet. Things in the Cowboy universe will improve imensely.
GunsUp - January 24, 2012
Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!!!
These should be our biggest goals. Of course we need some secondary help, but man do we need to build up the OLine and Front 7 something fierce.
timani - January 25, 2012
I don’t understand all the focus by fans of this site on the interior line.
The defense is at least just as much a need. Offensive line especially the interior positions don’t require great athletes .Compare that to defensive end or linebacker where it is more or less either you are born that way or you aren’t. That is why as much as you can avoid it that your team ought to avoid taking an interior lineman high
We can take an interior lineman in the first but only as a BPA who we think is special and not because we want that need above all others ought to be filled.
This " interior offensive line or bust and above everything else" thinking is about as intelligent, and just as trendy as the lets trade down from #9 thinking was last year.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Sir, I have to disagree with you. Have you ever been in a 3pt stance in your life?
There is no position in football that requires more discipline or technique then being an offensive lineman. The success of any football team, hinges on its ability to control the line of scrimmage. To win consistently, you must win in the trenches and that means playing on your opponent’s side of the line of scrimmage not yours. This speaks in volumes in regards to interior linemen. There’s big secret that Romo was running for his life in most of the games this season. Some of it was from an outside speed rush but a lot from stunts and twists designed at attacked the A and B (interior line) gaps. IMO if you give Romo the time, he, like Brady, Brees, Manning ,Rodgers can pick defenses apart. Also there are fewer spots of concern on the offense, so, with as deep as the draft seems to be as far as CB’s, why not pick up a potential HOF stud OG?
@Tonekupone - January 24, 2012
+1
meisternance - January 24, 2012
Yep
You can call the Giants’ talent acquisition boring, but they consistently go after OL and DL players, and it pays off.
dunkman - January 24, 2012
That's because the game is one at the line of scrimmage.
Even Tom Brady and Peyton manning can’t win with constant pressure in their face. You have to have an above average QB (which we do) and a really good o-line and defensive front seven, which we don’t. I’ll stick with that statement till the day I die.
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Won**
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
you only win by turning out right.
60% -70% of the people last year demanded a trade down last year. Probably the same group who now calls for OL or bust.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
The Giants don’ t have a great OL
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Its better than the Cowboys
and many other teams.
Tyrone Jenkins - January 25, 2012
Great Rebuttal!
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
excellent rebuttal
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
You have
To be able to run the ball and pass block and then fix what else needs fixing.
The two teams with the best defenses are watchig the super bowl on tv. (The Ravens and niners ) because offense is more important than defense.
You need both but a top five offense and a top ten defense is better than a top five defense and a top ten offense…. IMHO.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
I agree, Coach
If we fix our O, ie., protect Romo by filling the holes in the OL and improve our D, making the D a top 10 unit, which is feasible based on our D ranking last year, then we have a real shot at the playoffs next year IMO.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
I'd say both teams are watching because of Special Teams. At least in SF case.
staubachfan - January 24, 2012
I'd say both. I think NE got lucky when the Ravens missed that FG.
Grimlock83 - January 24, 2012
True, but
Notice that year in and year out, (At least for the last 10 years or so), it is the Elite QB’s that make the difference, and they play on offense.
Again, you have to have a top 10 defense, but New Orleans and Indy certianlly didnt have a top 5 defense.
SF also only made how many 3rd down conversions? Was it ONE?
Poor SF offense….is one of the main reasons the game was as close as it was.
Keeping the other team off the field with great offense makes for a pretty good defense also.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
I remember Jimmy Johnson used to say you have to win two of the three areas
I think it’s very true. We’ve had an ongoing debate on here about improving the OL vs. better pass rush vs. better coverage. It’s all important. I like Jimmy’s approach that you have to win in two of the three areas to win the game. I think we saw this past weekend how even with the “elite QB” or a strong Defense, it can all be for not if the ST’s have a let down.
On a side note: I really don’t buy into the “elite QB” stuff making the difference. I think this is played up way to often. I think it’s much more likely that a solid offense, to include the line, skill position players, preparation, strategy, and some luck leads to the media hype of calling someone an elite QB.
staubachfan - January 24, 2012
You make great points
and I usually make the same ones, because a TEAM wins and a TEAM looses, but the QB and the Coach get associated with W’s and L’s after their name, and in the case of the QB, we do have tangible facts, called the QB rating to go by, and I think it is a very fair way to grade a QB, the QBR is an even better one and if you look at all the top QB’s 90% of them are SB winners and the other 10 percent should get theirs someday if the rest of their team improves.
It is no denying that this is a QB driven league.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
I agree it's a QB driven league
But even the tangible facts you mention in QB rating and QBR is still an individual rating based on the teams performance. The ability of the blockers, receivers, and those that create and call the plays have a direct effect on the rating.
Football is so much a team sport (I know you know). It reminds me of how quickly the media started praising the OL of Dallas after Romo came in.
staubachfan - January 24, 2012
+1
some superbowl winning teams had only run of the mill quarterbacks and one was even a running back playing QB (Tom Matte) Losing Team == Cowboys and Staubach
50yrcowboy - January 24, 2012
2 turn overs and a missed fg was all that kept ravens and 49ers out ..
at least to me any ways hehehe, but then giants were gift wraped that win by the bounce of the ball. but of coarse they could have come back any how, guess we will never know for sure …..
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
Also true,
but there is no denying that this is a QB dominated league and the QB plays on Offense.
It is no coincidence that the teams that make it to the Superbowl have elite QB’s…Usually……
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
The Giants have a better pass rush than either the Ravens or the NIners
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
They also
have a better QB.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Sure. but Romo is still pretty good.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
if the OG guard is great then take him. If DeCastro is ,plug in ,play ,probowl and there is no one there at that level then you taking him seems like a good idea.
But over everything else you don’t focus on OG and you don’t reach to build up the offensive line. If DeCastro isn’t there do we still only focus on getting an offensive lineman in round one?
Even if he is do you take him if there is a corner back a the the same level ?
You go BPA not offensive line or bust.
Landry’s Cowboys didn’t overpower people at interior over power teams on the defensive line .
Jimmy Johnson never had Larry Allen he still won two superbowls. Now if there is a Larry Allen you take him . But if there isn’t one like him you don’t throw everyone else out just to get a tougher dude in there.
It is all BPA.
This is my view of football Get a QB a LT , two or three big time pass rushers , and two shut down corners, The rest fill in with JAGS
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
You only take value.
If there is an O-Lineman sitting there that is equal to or very close in value, then you take him if the Olinemen are in short supply.
But if there are 50 Olinemen of almost the same value, and there is only one top CB left on the board and the rest are only half as good, then you go for the DB.
It is all about value, and need. Value + Need = BPA.
Reach = pick way too high for need = dumb.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
depends on the difference in value.
there are some small exceptions to BPA but almost always it is the way to go
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
So if
a top notch QB and a Top Notch RB are sitting at 14 and Clayborne is also there but the QB and RB are rated higher, you are telling me that it is better to pick the QB or the RB because they are the best players available?
It is all about value and need. Value + Need = BPA. IMHO.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
If I saw a really nice QB there, I would take him.
RB I would compare him to Clayborne. If he was a lot better then I would take him too.
For him to be a lot better he would have to very much like Adrian Peterson.
After seeing what Adrian Peterson did as a rookie I would go BPA
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
So, you would really take
a QB as your first pick if he was rated 13th and DeCastro was rated 14th BPA? Really? And how does picking a backup QB that high help this team?
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Well if the QB is just back up quality then I really messed up.
But what if he is Aaron Rodgers.
What did I do?
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
But what if he is Aaron Rodgers?
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Alex Smith was highest rated QB
on the board, and how did that pan out?
Rodgers went somewhere in the 20’s because he was not rated a lot higher than that. Was rated fairly high but still you dont know about a draft until a few years pass, so just because Rodgers is there, what if he is the next Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith, or….etc..etc…
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
No, no he wasn't.
Only idiots thought that. Alex Smith had a fringy arm and questions about his accuracy. He also ran a gimmick offense that wouldn’t translate into the NFL. Aaron Rodgers played a pro-style offense and had a good arm and was pretty accurate. Obviously he’s made some improvements, but he was always the more reasonable choice. There was this knock on him that he was a “Tedford QB,” so that kept people away from him. There was a time where dumbasses were high on guys that ran spread offenses in college. Akili Smith fits in that same category. Ryan Leaf? Drugs, women, and other issues got in his way. His off the field activities did him in.
Omar Little - January 25, 2012
It's simple math really
Let’s say:
Romo + the current O line = 85
Romo + current O line + DeCastro = 92
Improvement of 7.
Defense + Spencer = 81
Defense + and 1st round OLB = 85
Improvement of 4.
Defense – Newman = 77
Defense – Newman + 1st rd CB = 80
Improvement of 3.
Adding DeCastro increases the overall TEAM value by the greatest margin for the years to come. The reason why is because the interior O line is so bad. The OLBs on this team include Ware, who is the best OLB in the league. The only way to substantially increase OLB value is to add just as much production or add another “Ware.” Also, there isn’t a 1st round CB (other than Claiborne) in this draft that will improve our secondary the same amount DeCastro improves the O line (it’s my contention that the secondary would receive greater improvement from adding a stud FS).
Tyrone Jenkins - January 25, 2012
Preach Brother Jenkins!
Yeah, if they think one of these OLBs is Aldon Smith or Tamba Hali take him…if not? DeCastro. Dre Kirkpatrick has potential, but there’s a few red flags in his game and his character. No deal breakers, but warning signs for sure. I think the Cowboys, where they’re at, should take the lower risk at a position that’s of arguably greater need.
Omar Little - January 25, 2012
Well done
kudos….I like it!
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
agreed
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
The only way I like DeCastro is BPA , not cause we need a guard.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
To be clear.
DeCastro is rated 14th best player on some boards. If a QB is rated 13th best player, I still pick DeCastro because we have Romo and dont need to waste a #1 pick on our next QB quite yet.
But again, the BPA was the QB….do you pick him?
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
know the story of Joe Montana? or Dan Marino?
the Cowboys passed on him to take Doug Cosbie. Tex Schram always talked about it.
He always told that story to make sure the Cowboys never made the same mistake .
This is well known Cowboy’s history.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
But Montana was not a BPA when
we passed on him. He was a 7th round pick wasnt he? Or was it a 4th rounder.
Even if he was rated as a 4th rounder, we are talking about where they were slotted or rated as BPA. Montana wasnt rated a BPA when we made most of our picks.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
No Montana was the HIGHEST PLAYER ON THE COWBOYS BOARD when the passed on him.
Please check the Catch by Garry Myers
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
He was rated 2nd or 3rd round in 1979
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
i wonder if 49ers system and roger craig and the greatest wr ......
wonder how much that made joe montana
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
Bill Walsh
was asked if it was him and the system or Joe Montana that made things click…..
His response….“Well, lets just say that if Joe was on another team, he would not do as well.”
Teams win and Walsh and that Defense had everything to do with Montana winning many, many games. Ever hear of Ronnie Lott?
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Montana had a lot of luck than but you can’t hold that against him.
I like defense too but Montana was special . better than Romo.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Montana threw the ball
to the best WR that has ever lived! THE very best – period!
Sage Rosenfels would look pretty good throwing to Jerry Rice…
Tyrone Jenkins - January 25, 2012
And Bill was full of sh*t !!
How did an older Montana do with a vastly inferior team in Kansas City ?
Walsh was full of himself.
football mensa - January 25, 2012
Montana
Had Clark, and Rathman as his best RB and Receiver in 1981 (first Ring)
Had Clark and Taylor as his receivers and Rathman + Craig as his RBs in their second SB run (the yr they defeated Marino).
Montana + Rice didn’t win a SB together until 1988 (the drive against the Bengals where John Taylor scores game winner).
The defense was always really good during Montana’s yrs, but the offense didn’t start being good until the 2nd and 3rd SBs.
Montana was more like Brady circa 2001 in 1981.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
http://www.leatherheadsofthegridiron.com/?p=1844
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
I will give you that one.
But, that is the exception that proves the rule.
I still stand by my example of not taking a QB at 14 even if he is the highest rated player on the board, unless, and this is the most important part…..“unless he is clearly superior by a large amount.”
If there is a DB, OL, or Rush LB at the 14 spot and the QB is the 13th best player on the board, (which would make him the highest rated), but just for the fun of it, lets say JJ Watt or Von Miller was sitting there, you would still take the QB? Really?
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
And I am saying that Von
Miller is the 14th best player in my example.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
in 1983 Dan Marino was the number one player on the cowboys board. We took Jeffcoat.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
We had Danny White and
Potential doesnt always work out.
Ryan Leaf was the #1 rated QB on most boards. Think the Chargers are glad they went with BPA?
Besides having a terrific QB named Danny White, here is why we passed on Marino and most people whould agree with the thinking by Landry and Tex…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Dallas_Cowboys_season
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Jeffcoat wasn’t special as a DE like Mario was a QB.
Alot of books on the decline of Tom Landry’s Cowboys tell the same story of the Cowboys passing on Joe Montana in 1979 and Dan Marino in 1983.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Tex admitted himself that the Cowboys missed Mario
In the Sporting News in 1987 the Cowboys got a C+
It said something very close to this : failure here (the 1983 draft) led to the Cowboys losing season in 1986. Right end Jeffcoat is solid not dominant. .
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
I'm good with the Jeffcoat pick, as we had White.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
would you take Aaron Rodgers over Von Miller?
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
If Aaron Rodgers
was rated 15th best player and Miller was rated the 14th best player, I would take Rodgers in a heartbeat, but then that makes my point as well as yours.
Everyone can see that Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL and who wouldnt take Rodgers knowing what we know now. But as in the case of Montan and where Rodgers was taken in his draft, they were not known quantities at that time.
Now, if I didnt already know about Rodgers, I would take Von Miller if he and Rodgers were almost identical in terms of BPA. One slot above or below is not enough difference to ignore a position of need, and that is the point that I think you are missing.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
i guess according to coach gary's point
Dallas won’t take a QB UNLESS Andrew Luck falls to #14.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Yep,
do you agree with that?
We dont need a QB and if one is rated “slightly” higher than DeCastro, would anyone pick that QB and pass on DeCastro?
I dont think so. Now if it is Andrew Luck or perhaps RG3, then I would take the pick and trade it, or just trade down a few spots and hope to fill a few needs with the “PROPER” value.
It is all about getting value for your needs….i.e., dont REACH!!!
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
If any of the top rated QBs
“fell” to 14, before Dallas selects them, they should ask themselves the question of WHY the QB fell in the 1st place. If Andrew Luck or RGII are avail at 14, wouldn’t we ALL think something (injury report, wonderlic, somethin) was wrong w/ them?
Tyrone Jenkins - January 25, 2012
So yes I take the QB
I don’t have a choice.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
I just dont think you would last
as a GM with that kind of thinking. BPA was the Lions theme when they took a WR every year for like 4 years in a row, when they could have picked a guy one slot lower and still got a top player, but at a position they needed.
How did some of those WR’s work out for the Lions?
You take the best player available that fits your needs…UNLESS THERE IS A PLAYER THAT is clearly better.
For example, sometimes we see ratings like 98, 97, 96, 95, etc and they are all potential Probowlers, if one of those guys fits a need, then the difference between the 98 guy and the 97 guys is like a penny is to a thousand dollars, you take the guy that helps your team the most, as long as they are almost exactly the same VALUE.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Value + Need = BPA.
And you do have a choice.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
There are some exceptions to BPA but usually it is the way to go.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
I have said this many times the LIons went down the draft not cause of BPA but because of an inability to evaluate talent.
They lost cause they selected players who weren’t any good not cause they went BPA.
They though they were going BPA but they had no idea about the players they were drafting
And then to badly over reached to selected Joey Harrington.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
The WRs execept for Calvin Johnson weren’ t any good . That is why the Lions failed.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
if get fired but I was the one who drafted Aaron Rodgers I get another chance at a job.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
OK, you are missing my point.
My point is what really is the BPA. I say and keep saying it is VALUE + NEED.
Here is another example that will illustrate my point the best way possible.
Lets say we have the 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th picks and the the BPA at all of those positions are all QB’s. Would you take maybe the 16th and 17th best players if they were a Corner and a pass rusher instead of two more QB’s?
You take the best player that fits your needs unless there is a huge difference in value…..
BPA is silly if you keep taking the same postion and it does nothing to fix your needs.
You have to incorporate common sense into that BPA rule…it cant be hard and fast or anyone could be GM, even me….
BPA is a guideline not a hard and fast rule…..Need has to be considered.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
sure there are exceptions and times when you have to sort go around it. I was never saying that there wasn’t
but if there is any substantial difference between them you go BPA.
And BPA carries more weight than need
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
agree with "Substantial Difference"
and have been repeating that same theme with most of my replys.
BPA carries more weight than need, but that is why you dont reach. You try to marry the BPA to the Need by trading down or insuring that the pick you make is close enough to the spot picked that it is the “proper” value, and then is when need + value = BPA.
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
Do you think GB is going to pick a QB if he is the BPA on their board and there is a defensive player a couple spots down on their board?
No. They will take the defensive player. You cannot pick only BPA without looking at what else your team needs.
BPA must be considered WITH need. You must compare the two with the players available when you are on the clock.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
Well said,
Couldnt of said it better myself.
Exactly to the point!
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
This is a great breakdown of BPA
staubachfan - January 24, 2012
as I said
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Mayock isn't a god though.
He had Gabbert as his number 1 qb number 5 overall. He had Newton at 21.
He had Costanzo ranked higher than Carimi and Smith. Both Carimi and Smith were better than Costanzo as was Solder.
He had Casey Matthews ranked a head of Kelvin Sheppard. Sheppard is by far the superior player.
football mensa - January 24, 2012
Newton wasn't a great pro prospect
His accuracy was horrible, I think his rookie year is a true aberration.
True Mayock isn’t going to be perfect, but he’s by far and away the best scouting analyst on TV today
Terry - January 24, 2012
Newton threw 21 td's to 17 int's it's not like he had pro bowl stats.
He had a good rookie year, not great. 17 int’s cost their team several games. I wouldn’t want him on our team, teams will figure him out and once they do he’s another Vick. Not accurate but makes plays b/c people worry about him running. Won’t win a super bowl.
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I give Cam a good chance to win a SB.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 24, 2012
I don't think he's accurate enough
He relies too much on his arm strength and legs. Michael Vick was a better QB out of college. And that’s hard for me to say
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I'll eat my words if I'm wrong but I highly doubt I am
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Just remember that this is a team sport.
Especially for a young, pretty bad team and few OTAs, Cam led very well, looked like he was having fun.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 24, 2012
Can is entirely overhyped
His numbers running the ball were great – that’s not playing QB. There is a reason Michael Vick had never win anything; because his accuracy wasn’t anywhere near his running ability. At some point you have to stand in and throw the ball.
jtgreet02 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I saw Cam play quite a bit this year
and was pretty impressed. I saw him make some throws.
We’ll see.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 24, 2012
I think CAM is going to be great. He is what the Raiders though they were getting with JaMarcus Russell.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
minus the funny blue drink hahahaaaa
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
Purple.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
Wierd...
Anyway, I wrote that even with few OTAs and a pretty bad team, Cam led very well. Looked like he was having fun.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 24, 2012
He was a rookie. Geez give the guy a little credit....
People are so quick to say Dallas didn’t have an off season. Neither did Cam. He was a dynamic force though as a rookie.
Vick is not in Cam’s neighborhood. He played 8 games as a rookie and had 2 td passes with 3 int’s. Vick played 15 games his second year and 15 his 4th year. His second year he had 16 td passes and 8 int’s. His 4th year he had 14 td’s and 12 ints. Cam is already better than Vick.
So why do you say Vick was better ?
football mensa - January 24, 2012
Agreed
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
oh my god dude....
did you even watch a Carolina game?
It was the guy’s rookie year…..and he showed that he can make every NFL pass with poise and leadership….and inside the 10 he is as much of a threat to score as any NFL running back.
you sir are so wrong.
death of the cool - January 24, 2012
We'll see when people start playing them like Michael Vick.
It’s called a QB you have RB’s to run the ball and he’s not a QB he’s a RB with a big arm. Watch the next 5 years and we’ll see.
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
POISE AND LEADERSHIP?!?!?!?
How many games did he lose from throwing not 1, not 2, but 3 and 4 int’s. You sir are so wrong
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
In all fairness he did show a good amount of these traits
Sure he had several bad games, but Cam is legit. He’s like a bigger & faster version of Donovan McNabb.
@Tonekupone - January 24, 2012
Newton = overrated
Terry - January 24, 2012
put him in dallas and romo in carolina,do he lose the lions,jets,or the pats games?
milkman - January 24, 2012
We would have never even been in those games without romo If he was in Dallas we would have been a 5-11 team
And if romo was in Carolina they would have won 2-3 more games.
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
ill take him over romo right now,we wouldve won them games over the jets lions pats,and
milkman - January 24, 2012
Hahahaha
Good one.
dunkman - January 24, 2012
You're either delusional or blind
Terry - January 24, 2012
or both.
Grimlock83 - January 24, 2012
I'll go with both.
ary201 - January 24, 2012
+10000
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
and just to be clear
I like Cam but not more than Romo.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
I think Newton has proven he should've been the #1 overall pick
People questioned he ability to study and process an NFL playbook, and then take what he learned and apply it to practice and game day. They also questioned his footwork.
Well during the 1st phase of the lockout-predraft, he worked on his footwork.
Duing phase 2 of the lockout-postdraft, he took his Panthers playbook, hired Chris Weinke to help him learn it, and also enrolled in a QB/WR academy with out rookie WRs and spent the lockout practicing the plays, and throwing the different routes to WRs.
As a result when he got to camp after the lockout, he was miles ahead of the rest of the QBs on the Panthers that he won the job after the second preseason game.
He also demonstrated his leadership qualities by convincing Steve Smith to drop his trade me/release me stance, and come back to the team. The veterans on the Panthers became believers in him.
Yes, I’m a Cam Newton fan, but the guy is immensely talented, humble (gets too little credit for this), has great work ethic, and leadership skills. He’s able to put the noise of his critics aside, and focus on leading his team-as witnessed by leading his team to BCS Title during the pay for play hoopla.
The skeptics were valid, but post draft, he’s proven everyone wrong. He just has to keep getting better, and I believe he will.
People say on this board that Cam isn’t as good as Peyton Manning, maybe he won’t have as excellent a career as Peyton, but you know what, he put up more TDs (35, 21 pass, 14 runs), less INTs (than Peyton), more Passing yards (than Peyton), and higher QB rating (Peyton) in his rookie season.
Manning’s rookie season: 56.7% completion, 3739 yrds, 26 TDs, 28 INTs, 71.6 rating
Newton’s rookie season: 60.0 % completion, 4051 yrds+706 rushing, 21 passing TDs, 14 rushing TDs, 17 INTs, 84.5 QB rating.
Seriously, give Cam his due. He made the pro bowl, all beit as a replacement for Eli. Peyton couldn’t replace Elway on the 1998 AFC Pro Bowl team, they took Warren Moon instead.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
What's making the pro bowl have to do with ANYTHING???
You’re telling me cam newton had a better year than tony Romo?? Uhhhh no… Pro Bowl is bull crap, nothing to do with most diserving player
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
For Christ' sake
I just included him making the pro bowl. It was’t my main reasoning. Have you failed reading comprehension?!?
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
did I say Newton was a better player than Romo?!?
I said Newton is a better player than people like to admit, and that he had a better rookie yr than Peyton Manning. Can you be so dense?
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
The league will catch on to Newton...very fast
Expect a huge sophmore slump
Terry - January 24, 2012
What do you have against Newton?
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
People here never really understand exactly what you say.
You said that you think Newton can be a good player, and that he was worthy of the number one overall pick. So to them that means that you said that he’ll be better than John Elway. You point out that he made the pro-bowl, WHAT SO HE’S BETTER THAN ROMO
If you dare say that not all the bad moves that this team made were Jerry’s fault or even dare to suggest that Jerry’s made his fair share of good calls, all of the sudden you think that Jerry’s the best GM in the league. You make the point that the defense was average, and all of the sudden you’re saying that the defense doesn’t need any work. You question whether Melvin Ingram is too big to play a 34 SLB and all of the sudden you think he’s a scrub. You tell people to tone down the hyperbole, and all of the sudden you’re saying that the team was totally awesome and needs no changes. You say one thing that goes against the dull and stagnant CW and everyone sounds like they were beaten with a hyberbole stick. It’s one of the more frustrating things about the internet. Everyone takes such extreme positions, “Spencer sucks,” “Eli is better than Peyton,” “the defense was garbage,” etc. etc. The truth is very rarely that far out on the fringes. Especially in a sport like football where the league actively tries to make each team 8-8. You can’t really act like one team is head and shoulders above just about any other team.
Your position is hard to disagree with on the merits, RoY, 4K yards passing, best rookie season for a QB ever, and so forth. However, he’s an “athletic” QB so that automatically means that the comparison is Mike Vick. Completely forgetting that these are two completely different players with two completely different skill sets, and most importantly, and two completely different men.
No one is ever the next anyone. Every player is different, these comparisons are designed for a ballpark on a player’s playing style and the value that they can provide. So comparing him to Mike Vick just because they’re both athletic and black QBs is just plain silly. Newton showed quite a bit last season, he’s still a rookie and he made plenty of mistakes but to look at the numbers he put up and watching his play last season, I don’t see how anyone can think that he doesn’t have a chance to be a good Quarterback.
I was wrong on him too. I thought “rich man’s Vince Young.” As in a player that can make things happen with his legs, and be a competent game manager. Maybe even win you a few games. I was wrong…dead wrong. This guy’s arm strength and presence on the field is something else. Sky’s the limit for him.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
You're all over the place.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
I was agreeing with you on Newton.
And merely pointed out that there is an understanding gap on the internet…
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
Ok cool. Sorry, I couldn't tell
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
So...
you’re saying you don’t like Romo? You’re not even a Cowboys fan, are you?
Seriously though, I was prepared to HATE Cam Newton and slag on his slick and privileged persona and enjoy watching him fail ala Jamarcus Russell. But I was wrong. I live in South Carolina so I watched my fair share of the DREADFUL Panthers’ games and he’s unbelievable. His INTs are due to inexperience and having the sack to think he’ll make all the throws (remind you of young Tony, maybe?).
If he doesn’t get caught up in the cult of celebrity and really works on Xs and Os, he will have an incredible career.
Steve Smith can’t say enough great things about him.
Joey2zs - January 24, 2012
Yeah I was dead wrong on him.
He’s unbelievable. He’s not the jerk everyone thinks he is either. Great leader, humble guy, and has some sick presence on the field.
Omar Little - January 25, 2012
Exactly
I thought, wrongly, that he would be like so many other freakishly talented guys and not have the maturity or background of working hard on the details. He’s impressive and he’ll be a great QB if he continues to work at it.
dunkman - January 25, 2012
Ditto.
But I go to the pub and watch DirectTV and not the Panthers.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
No u said he was better than Peyton manning his rookie yr b/c he made the pro bowl.
The pro bowl probes absolutely nothing about how good a player someone is so why did u bring up that point? Cam Newton did not have a pro bowl yr that is my point when speaking of newton making the pro bowl over Romo. Obviously someone else has a little difficulty in reading comprehension. If you didn’t understand that, I am saying you are the one that has trouble in reading comprehension ;) was that clear enough for you?
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
No he didn't
He pointed out that he made the pro-bowl his rookie year, surely an accomplishment. He had a better rookie season than Peyton Manning did, that doesn’t mean that he’s better than Manning. He’s simply saying that the future is bright. Andy Dalton had a better rookie year than Aikman did, does pointing out that mean that you’re suggesting that Dalton is better than Aikman?
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
I never said making the Pro Bowl was the reason Cam had a better rookie season than Peyton
I said Cam had a better statistical rookie season than Peyton. numbers don’t lie. Swriously, go back and re-read what I said.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
Exactly.
If Cam makes the same jumps that Peyton made he’ll be better than he was…however that’s an almost negligible if, as in it’s not happening. There was a lot that happened between Manning’s rookie year and Manning’s first MVP season that caused him to get better. Very few players can make those types of adjustments and run the field that way. Dude’s straight beast. I heard his comments about the new regime in Indy, sounds like he’ll be leaving. Hope the Skins don’t get him, hope the Jets do.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
Agreed.
I also hope the Skins don’t get RG3 or my boys Lindley and Moore.
Let em take Tannehill or Weeden. I donz’t want the skins taking a QB I like..lol!
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
Trade up with the Rams for Tannehill!!!
I’d like to see Fisher do well.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
lol
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Moore is not a pro qb.
football mensa - January 25, 2012
I agree, Cam has shown a lot of flashes and could grow into a very good QB in this league
this is coming from a guy who has written him off. He could still very likely bust but i think there’s a good chance he’ll become a good QB
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
I was not the biggest fan of Cam's
But he showed some great work ethic and spent 12 weeks with Chris Weinke at IMG Academy in Florida during the lockout. He did everything in his power to be a good QB in the NFL and it showed in his first year. I know he will be heading backdown there this offseason and will only get better.
Birddog26 - January 24, 2012
yup
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
as usual birddog
You are spot on right!
I seldom disagree with your take.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Given that he is one of the few around here (perhaps the only one?)
whose job is working one on one with NFL players, yeah, not a guy I tend to argue with.
Tom Ryle - January 24, 2012
Hey BD, is there any site that lists what players are going to one of the Academy's in the off season?
I would love to know which Cowboys were being that serious about it, and about the FA’s we are eyeballing for the same reason.
Rena - January 24, 2012
None that I know of
I work with clients at IMG, Fischer Sports in Ariona and Michael Johnson’s facility in Dallas so I know who is going there. I also know and work with agents Tom Condon, Drew Rosenhaus and David Dunn so I know where their clients are going. Teams will never talk about it and the media steers clear of the subject.
While I have not seen it, I was told by several people that ESPN was making a stinck of Tom Brady consulting his personal QB coach, Tom Martinez, this week. This is one reason why many coaches, teams and agents do not talk about it openely in the media. While Tom and most of the front page writers know who my clients are with the Cowboys and have been respectful of not disclosing them, I think the mainstream media would have a field day with it and spin it as negative.
Birddog26 - January 24, 2012
To bad, it would have been nice to know.
And good to know our front page writers have the discretion to keep some things to themselves.
Rena - January 25, 2012
you're talking about Gabbert, not Newton
Newton was great, but that 2nd rounder was better… Cinci got the best WR and the best QB. Newton will be better in the long-run though. He can carry a team and unlike Tebow he’s more accurate.
scraig - January 24, 2012
While not a god, Mayock bases his opinions on tape, which counts for an awful lot.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
Mayock will change his rankings many times, before the draft.
DIRE WOLF - January 24, 2012
absolutely, rankings and mock drafts mean really nothing right now
Gotta watch the all-star games, get combine and pro day results, after that combine those elements with tape then ranking players becomes a more realistic exercise.
Terry - January 24, 2012
yup
he’s probably got more tape to watch too
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
You're right...
I also remember him droning on about Darren McFadden not even being in his Top 20 or something, saying he doesn’t “move his legs on contact.”
Mayock is a freakin’ space alien.
Phillyboijr - January 24, 2012 via mobile
McFadden is overrated, spends too much in the trainers room
Terry - January 24, 2012
Two seperate issues...
McFadden having injury issues doesn’t equate to him “sucking” or being overrated.
When he’s healthy on the field playing, he’s one of the Top 3 or 4 backs in the league.
Phillyboijr - January 24, 2012
+1
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
Dont you have to be on the field playing for it to matter ?
BigBad Joe - January 24, 2012
If you’re saying DMC is injury prone, you won’t get an argument from me. I’m simply saying the notion of him being “overrated” is offbase, because when he’s playing, he’s one of the best in the league the past two seasons. The numbers are comparable to the other top backs in the league.
Phillyboijr - January 24, 2012
+2
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Mayock was correct about McFadden
I watched DMCF struggle in 2008 and 2009 because in college he was a straight line runner with very little cutback ability. His straight line speed is really good, but on initial contact he would fall to the ground plenty of times his first two seasons, and even now he still struggles with it.
Arkansas did a great job hidding his flaw because they also had Felix Jones and Peyton Hillis. I’d say McFadden is a decent RB, but I wouldn’t want him on the boys.
Another thing to consider, McFadden has also gotten better because the Raiders o-line and QB play improved. Whereas a guy like Adrian Peterson was doing more with less on his offensive line and at QB.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
He "struggled?"
He “struggled” in 2008 and 2009 due to injuries (starting just 12 games his first two seasons), not to mention that during those days the Raiders were trying to implement a 3-headed monster with Justin Fargas, Michael Bush and DMC.
Also a huge factor in how well DMC has played these past two seasons is the fact the Raiders have made him their feature back and scheming to his strengths. In prior seasons, with the running back by commitee approach, the Raiders were simply running blocking schemes that suited the other backs (Fargas & Bush); like square peg into round hole. Check the numbers, they don’t lie. With an increased role, DMC has only gotten better.
FWIW, I live in the Bay Area and am forced to watch more Raider games than I care to see, lol.
Phillyboijr - January 24, 2012
I lived in the bay area from 2007-2010
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
I've lived in the Bay Area from 1978-89 and then from 1994 to present...
Lol, now that my Bay Area residential dominance established….shall we discuss DMC’s numbers and how he’s been utilized?
First two season (’08 & ’09/…25 games):
One game with 20+ carries
217 total carries
856 yards rushing
3.9 YPC
34.24 yards per game
Past two seasons (just 20 games played)
Seven games of 20+ carries
336 total carries
1771 yards rushing
5.2 YPC
88.55 yards per game
Phillyboijr - January 24, 2012
DMC is another back that should not be over used.
I hope we don’t over use Murray.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Agreed.
Gotta keep those valuable legs fresh for killing the clock in the 4th.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
You know Mensa, I gotta give you credit.
You take extreme positions that are out of the CW on the board and you back them up. You’re awfully good at getting under people’s skin and forcing them to think about thinks. You’re annoying as all hell and sometimes I think you’re just messing with us with some of the crap you pull, but overall I think you’re a good guy. Just remember that the next time I’m yelling at you.
Agreed totally here, Mayock has some good things to say but lets stop acting like he’s that much better than ESPN’s crew or anything like that.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
LOL Omar. It would be easier if Jerry would step down.
Ya I am blunt for sure. Not just on this blog but I have always been the boss in my life. Maybe that has something to do with it.
You will yell at me again. You will call me idiot again. I never take this stuff personal. Some do. LOL. For all my bitching one thing I know. I can’t do anything about it. In my 20’s I looked at the Cowboys almost like every here does. Then we had the 90’s teams. Then I gave Jerry 4-5 years to retool. Now I watch some of the moves he makes and say wtf.
football mensa - January 24, 2012
Just know that I actually kinda like you...despite your, well "you-ness"
You’re right about Jerry retooling. I’d say in 1999 they should have started the rebuild. They won the division the year before, but Irvin went down in ‘99. Instead of looking at his team and saying "it’s time," he wanted to extract one more win out of the team, which I guess I can’t blame him for. He held on to that for too long, though. Wrong decision in hindsight, instead he acquired people like Galloway and then once Troy left, rather than rebuilding a franchise he tried to patch together a playoff team as fast as he could. That, besides the coaches, was IMO the biggest mistake.
But he got a few cool things out of holding on for too long, we got to see Emmitt break the all time rushing record, I’ll never for get that moment for as long as I live. Was pretty damn cool if you ask me. That was what? 2002? After that they should have started looking to re-build the franchise, but they didn’t. Hired Parcells and wanted to see if they could do it with a busdriver at QB. They couldn’t, but they lucked into Romo so hopefully they can get it done while he’s still here. Such an odd turn of events after Irvin got injured. Never went through a rebuild, in the traditional sense, but they were contenders for a few years here and there. Oh well, 1998 was the last year for the Dynasty to do something in the Super Bowl…just wasn’t in the cards.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
I think it is impossible
to “prove” that they “Lucked” into Romo. It can be “assumed” on both sides of that argument.
I think it is as Bill Parcells said….“You cant just dial up 1-800-greatQB” and that alot of the reason that Jerry took a long time to re-tool was because of the lack of available QB’s that can be THE FRANCHISE guy. I give Jerry the credit on signing Romo because as the GM you have to give him credit for all the good moves if you give him all the greif for all his bad ones….otherwise you are just not being fair or intellectually honest. (lying to self).
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Dude he was a UDFA
Anytime one of those work out it takes a tremendous amount of luck. They were patient with him and he rewarded their patience and coaching. I’m one of Jerry’s biggest defenders here so I’m not trying to rip Jerry or anything. They got lucky with Romo, I think anytime a UDFA turns into an all-star you got lucky, granted it took some skill, but also some luck.
You could also make the argument that anytime you hit on a QB that requires some bit of luck.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
Well saod Omar
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
Said*
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
The Luck part was that
he turned out so well, but that doesnt mean that they didnt “Evaluate” him and then saw something that they really liked. Which they did.
The evaluation part is the part that I am saying is not luck but skill.
Way before Parcells put Romo in as the starter, both Jerry and Parcells said they could tell from the get-go that Romo could really be something, that is skill at spotting potential and that is all any draft pick or FA is until they ALL PROVE themselves…..Ryan Leaf anyone?
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
You guys don't get it.
I give Jerry credit for good moves. But the problem is that Jerry’s good moves are individual hits here and there and are far outweighed by his bad moves or non-moves. He doesn’t seem to have a plan to build a team and is a bad GM.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
I saw a list a while back that
I wish I would have saved. It listed all the good moves by Jerry and all the bad moves by Jerry and there were more good ones than bad.
And I am not kidding or trying to lie to anyone. I could remember it wrong, but it struck me so hard, I doubt that my memory of that article is wrong either.
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
Keep in mind that the
Draft picks are not individual but in total, and Jerry gets the credit and blame only in as much as he hired the scouts.
As an example, the hiring of Larry Lacewell and all of those picks attributed to him would be on one side of the ledger and the hiring of his replacement and all of the new scouts and their picks on one side as well.
The main thing the GM does is work trades. The one he made for Haley was a grand slam. The ones for Joey Galloway and Roy Williams are on the bad side of the ledger.
And next are the FA signings. Kosier, T.O., Deion and others are usually forgotten that Jerry gets the credit for them as well.
But most important is the fact that Jerry listens to a whole lot of people and trys to get concensus before he makes a move, and I think that is a sign of a good mananger.
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
I look at it in two ways. Individual players and the team.
He may have signed more good players than bad but what has that done for the team? Were they the right players? Did he maintain a team that could succeed?
And besides, you cannot make a list of good versus bad players over the life of Jerry as GM because not all those players played at the same time on the same team or helped maintain the team. For an extreme example, what if Jerry’s “good” list has more than the “bad” list because there are 10 all pro WRs on it? Did all 10 play on the same team at the same time? Or on the other hand, did those 10 WRs help maintain the overall team at a playoff level when the team had other areas of need, such as QB after Aikman?
My point is that hitting on a good move here and there and making a “good” list that is longer than a “bad” list over 22 years does not build and maintain a successful team.
I know Jerry has made good moves. I just think that overall, he is bad at maintaining a playoff caliber team. Otherwise, that list of good players that is longer than the bad players would have better results than the last 16 years.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
Dre plays more like a fs.....
.
Mayock has been pretty good in regards to db’s. He was a db in the pro’s.
football mensa - January 24, 2012
What do you think of Brandon Taylor mensa?
assuming that you know everything LSU.
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I think he will be better than any safety we have. It may take him a year.
Ryan Clark the safety for Pitt is damn good. I think Taylor will be that kind of player. Lsu runs a weird d. There is a lot of free lancing in the secondary because everyone is such a great athlete.
football mensa - January 24, 2012
ESPN does it again
OK – I’m not trying to jack this comment thread, but it’s being reported on espndallas and proffotballtalk that Jerry Jones says Eli is the difference between the Giants and the Cowboys. But if you listen to Jones’ whole interview on the mothership, he was saying the exact opposite. He was saying that the Romo was playing well enough, but that other areas of the team need to get better.
Sometimes what passes for “journalism” or “reporting” is pitiful. Just had to get that out there
Jericho Slim - January 24, 2012
Yeah, Calvin Watkins spun the quotes around.
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Man i really wish Ratliff would've whipped his ass.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 24, 2012
Yeah
Calvin Watkins and that one guy Jean Jacque whatever.. I can go on, but those two I cannot stand the most.
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
They're all hacks. Why do you bother wasting time on them, just come here and get the good stuff.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
only read Bryan Broaddus of ESPN
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
Thanks, pfloyd.
Tom Ryle - January 24, 2012
Journalism, advertising and prospective employers.
All of their rules need to be tightened up, IMHO. SOPA and PIPA are going to bust the average Joe’s cojones, but Watkins, which is ABC, can spin things however they want. When will our leaders grow up, or we demand better?
BlueNSilverBlood - January 24, 2012
What?
what?
Joey2zs - January 24, 2012
Huh?
Sorry, you may show up to talk smack; and I’m not mad at you because I made a political comment on a non-political board. But my point is simply that I see a lot of mainstream sports media twisting things to sell concepts, products and prospects.
If you have an intelligent rebuttal, I would love to talk.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 25, 2012
What's even funnier is one of the comments someone wrote.
In essence they said that the hated the “America’s Team” label and said it was brought in by Jerry Jones and that’s why Landry left.
staubachfan - January 24, 2012
it was coined by NFL Films
And it was based upon the Cowboys selling the most (by far ) merchandise.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Yes I know....that's why I said it was funny.
staubachfan - January 24, 2012
I thought it was Tex... same with the Cheerleaders
scraig - January 24, 2012
Nope it was coined by Bob Ryan, who then worked at NFL Flims
thebigham - January 24, 2012
Landry left as part of the sale of the Cowboys to Jerry.
It was part of the deal when he bought the team that Jerry would have to fire Landry as the old owner didn’t want to.
It was well known that when Jerry bought a team Jimmy would be his HC. It wasn’t personal to Landry, just the HC spot was already taken.
Rena - January 24, 2012
Yep, I have made
that point a few times myself. Bum Bright hated Landry and made Jerry do the tough part of the deal. Although I have to admit, Jerry might have fired him anyway, but he had no choice.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Where are those Packer fans that were calling for a reissue of the Cowboy's 'America's Team' nickname to the Pack.
One of the Pack fan members of my garden club said that the Packers should be America’s Team. I asked her if all SB champions should get to corral every other team’s nicknames. Like, maybe Rogers could be ‘Captain Comeback’, the DBs the Killer Bees’, the DL, ‘The Fearsome Foursome’, the OL, ‘The Hogs’ etc etc.
Now that the Packers lost, we can wait for the next attack on the America’s Team moniker in about two weeks.
CowboyMan - January 24, 2012
Romo did extremely well in my opinion from the Pats game to the end of the season
He minimized his own mistakes, didn’t try to force all kinds of strange things, and I think it showed. I think thats why we stay competitive when our own defense wasn’t getting turn overs like it previously was.
Final Frame - January 24, 2012
No - that's not even close
Eli was the difference in the 2 games… this has nothing to do with Romo and everything to do with Terrance… I mean Eli. It was a compliment to Eli’s play – he’s not making mistakes and he’s making big plays. The Cowboys problem was Eli, that’s why they lost.
The off-season will be trying to figure out a way to stop Eli, better pressure up-front. A better secondary, upgrades on Abe and TNew for sure. Scandrick, Sensi and Jenkins are staying put. There’s only 2 guys that can move… also don’t see Coleman and Spears positions as being all that stable.
scraig - January 24, 2012
I think the pic is Jerry saying
we are going to take two corners in this drafts
BigBad Joe - January 24, 2012
Very possible
Having two rookies, bringing up Butler to the 53 man roster, and hopefully getting a new vet to add then that could be a completely different secondary from last year.
Final Frame - January 24, 2012
I agree w/ Mayock re: Courtney Upshaw
I don’t think he’s “sudden” enough to be a dynamic OLB. Great instincts and good closing speed, but doesn’t have that elite first step that you need/ want in a first round pass rusher.
In other words Upshaw=Spencer v. 2.0
So, interesting idea to move him inside. I wonder if he got that idea from NFL scouting types?
rabblerousr - January 24, 2012
I'm anxious to see his combine numbers. It will tell a lot about his quickness
Dynamicduo - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Man, Upshaw looked quick in the title game.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
LSU's oline would make Spencer look quick
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Really?
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
yes. none of those guys are very good at pass protection
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Most scouts see Upshaw as more of an ILB
He is looking great at Senior Bowl practices
Birddog26 - January 24, 2012
I agree. Upshaw looks out of place playing on the edge.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Speaking of looking good at the Senior Bowl practices.........
I just read Weeden looks great.
DIRE WOLF - January 24, 2012
He is doing very well
Due to his age he is not someone a team will take and invest the time to make him a starter, but there are a number of teams who are set starter with a stable coaching staff that will look to draft him as their backup QB.
Birddog26 - January 24, 2012
I was thinking he might be a starter day one on a team like Miami or Washington.
If he’s as polished as they say, he might do ok. Really no time to waste at his age.
DIRE WOLF - January 24, 2012
That's the only reason to draft him. He'd have to start soon if you invest the pick.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
I think I may still be able to start for Washington or Miami
Birddog26 - January 24, 2012
if we are gonna grab an ILB, id rather take hightower than upshaw.
much more versatile and a better overall LB
Mr. Abe Froman - January 25, 2012
"Make mine a double"
I am the Jerry Whisperer….
dunkman - January 24, 2012
Nicks + DeCastro = Good to go
I mentioned this in my very first post last night, but it was deep into the thread so I thought it couldn’t hurt to mention it again in an effort to generate more discussion.
Why not try to sign Nicks and draft DeCastro and then use rounds 2-7 on defense? Our offense would be virtually set and another year building the defense should get us close.
Maybe I’m dreaming.
staubachistan - January 24, 2012
My Dream is your scenario.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
I like it
Only I might lean a little more toward center (Meyers, Wells, etc.) than guard (Nicks) in free agency for several reasons. First, center was by far the weakest link along the line, and it’s easier to find/develop a quality guard than a dominant player to man the pivot. Second, with the money Dallas will save signing Meyers/Wells over Nicks they can put toward replacing Newman and/or signing an elite pass rusher.
dacolan - January 24, 2012
I could live with that too, my main priority is to protect Tony and Draft DeCastro if he's there at #14.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
If DeCastro is still on the board at #14 he's likely the BPA.
It would be foolish to pick a lower rated player at another position of need simply because you signed a C/OG in free agency.
Meyers/Wells + DeCastro + one of Arkin/Costa/Kowalski/Nagy developing = a big time improvement of the ’Boys interior OL.
dacolan - January 24, 2012
Yep, imagine Tony not having to run for his life in order to make plays. When was the last time you saw that.
We treat our franchise player as if he were Sponge Bob.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
The last time would be
I don’t know. I’ve only seen him since he joined the Cowboys.
StarCity - January 24, 2012
Yup this is what Ive been saying too.
Get FA C use the money you save and put it towards the best FA D player for our needs CB/OLB/DE whatever.
Then draft DeCastro and the best D player in the 2nd and boom superbowl
thebigham - January 24, 2012
My sentiments exactly Ham!!
NVCowboy4Life - January 24, 2012
Upshaw is listed as an OLB, not ILB
Mayock lumped OLB/ILB together, not DE/OLB. This is how he ranked LB’s according to rotoworld
Linebackers
1. Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
2. Luke Kuechly*, Boston College
3. Dont’a Hightower*, Alabama
4. Zach Brown, North Carolina
5. Vontaze Burfict*, Arizona State
mikekim21 - January 24, 2012
Wouldn't mind Hightower if he slides to the third.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
Hightower is an athlete he won't be around when we pick in the second
Wes keeps talking about what a dynamic athlete he is, if he blows up the combine, he could very well go before kuechly. I just can’t get excited about kuechly, seems like a poor man’s Sean lee. He’s slow and not that great at the point of attack.
matt575 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
You're probably right, but I can dream.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
Just can't draft him higher than the third because I think I'd have similarly rated or more highly rated players available at positions of need in the second.
I’d consider trading up to get him if he fell into the bottom of the second.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
I agree
But the only time ILBs go early are when they are freak athletes like Patrick willis.
matt575 - January 25, 2012 via mobile
Brockers
I wouldn’t read too much into Brockers being 3rd right now. Often times juniors start out a bit low in Mayock’s lists and then move up as he watches more tape on them. The best example was a few years ago when Jerod Mayo did not appear in Mayock’s first several top 5’s.
BlueStarDude - January 24, 2012
What happened to my post?
Sheesh! Was my second ever post that bad that it got deleted?
staubachistan - January 24, 2012
Oops, nevermind
It reappeared.
staubachistan - January 24, 2012
That OCC is tricky.
DIRE WOLF - January 24, 2012
tricksy hobbitses, he is...
rabblerousr - January 24, 2012
I'm too lazy & depend on you BTB guys, so
could we get an updated list just before the draft. =)
Johnny Cage - January 24, 2012
I think Jerry goes D in the 1st.
CB huge need or OLB especially if Spencer isn’t resigned.
DIRE WOLF - January 24, 2012
My question for that scenerio
is this…..
How much of a drop off is there between a Corner at 14 and one in the 2nd round? Isnt this a bumper crop of DB’s and if you dont get the top 2, (Which probably wont be there at 14), then why not wait until the 2nd round?
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
depends on who's there at14 and where he is on their board
DIRE WOLF - January 24, 2012
its starting to look like CB is the most important
scraig - January 24, 2012
it seems at this juncture that the quality at CB will be significantly higher in round two
than the quality at OLB/ DE…
kinda the opposite of the 2011 draft…
rabblerousr - January 24, 2012
Then to me
it makes perfect sense to get DeCastro and get our Corner in round 2. Yes?
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Sure DeCastro also probably satisfies BPA.
Here is one possible way for a draft and free agency to play out
1. DeCastro
2. Gillmore (trade up) burn 6th seventh
3. Chandler Jones (trade up ) burn 5th
4.BPA
5 supplemental BPA
Free agency
Keep Robinson,
keep Spencer
sign DE Jason Jones
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
That would be amazing
matt575 - January 25, 2012 via mobile
Anybody watching SeniorBowl practice?
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
where can you watch it?
Online or tv?
matt575 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
NFL Network.
Next practice is at 2:30 pm over here on the west coast.
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Kendall Reyes is beastin on Zeitler.
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
yeah I just tuned in
Reyes is a guy I like and have mentioned before for us
Archie Barberio - January 24, 2012
Thinking 3rd round for him chia?
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
yeah
thats exactly where I see him
reminds me of that Chris Canty type five tech, the style I really like
Archie Barberio - January 24, 2012
Do you think there would be a good chance Jamell Fleming falls to us in the 4th?
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I don't see it, he's got character issues
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Really.
Bummer. Seems like a lot of the talented CB’s are coming with some baggage.
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
plus he plays in Dallas' backyard at OU
The scouts should be very familiar with him.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
What character issues does he have?
I don’t see any..
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
work ethic. and he had academic problems.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Is having academic
problems really a character issue? I’m just asking….
jevans1729 - January 24, 2012
Can't get your s**** together is what it shows
It also shows you’re not disciplined in the study amd preparation aspect.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
You said
“had academic problems” which I took to mean having difficulty. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he is not working hard at it i.e. getting, tutoring etc. Everyone doesn’t process information at the same rate and efficiency. I don’t think because a person “had academic problems” (whatever that means) that it is necessarily a product of poor character.
jevans1729 - January 24, 2012
I agree
I hope we can land him in the 4th.
BrickTop - January 24, 2012 via mobile
You could just be dumb...
And lets be honest, it’s a third round pick. I think he’s worth that as a risk…you’re not going to let grade problems at UConn (which isn’t exactly LSU, Bama, Texas, or Arizona State with grades in respect to athletes) keep you from getting a player you really lik eon the field? I mean it’s a concern, sure, but there’s more to a player’s character than just grades. Furthermore, the Cowboys can probably hire PIs to investigate the players that they drat and they probably know way more about who they are as a person than we eer will.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
And not you personally being dumb
Just that if you have grade problems it doesn’t mean you don’t work hard or study, it could just mean that you’re an idiot.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
And if hez's an idiot
How exactly will he understand coverage schemes etc. The Cowboys want smart players
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
Damn,
the guy went from having academic problems to being an idiot. LMAO. Nothing but A students at BTB.
jevans1729 - January 24, 2012
Thinking you're going overboard here.
Just because he can’t do well in sociology doesn’t mean that he can’t understand his assignments on the field. Marcel Dareus is one of the most ass ignorant players I’ve ever seen. Yet I’m pretty sure most people here would love him on the team, why? Well he knows what to do on the field. For me, that’s enough.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
+1
jevans1729 - January 24, 2012
lol what if he hates a certain subject ....
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
I like Reyes
I think the Boys use him as their DT prospect. Especially because of the Paul Pasqualoni connection, former Cowboys coach who HCs UCONN.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
are we still on good terms with him?
I thought he was more of a Wade guy than a JG guy
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
Not sure, but he did get promoted to DC when Wade was let go.
Rena - January 24, 2012
Well a new admin
I think he knew that it wasn’t working out, he’s the head coach of a college football program, so I think he landed okay.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
Is there a tangible difference.....
Between taking a guard in the first round or getting one in the second round?
Or for that matter, signing a FA guard?
Here is what I see outta yesterday’s games – you don’t have to score many points to win if you have playmakers on defense, and especially a solid defensive line. Or in the case of a 3/4, solid line and linebackers.
Over the past two years the Cowboy defense has been woefully deficient.
OF course most noticeable to me has been lack of pass rush and just flat abysmal secondary play.
These two go hand in hand, and one is not mutually exclusive of the other.
The way I see it, Cowboys absolutely must go heavy on defense in the first 5 rounds, and see what kind of quality offensive flotsam they can extract from 6 and 7.
When one looks at the quality and quantity of WR in the East alone can throw at you, well, let’s just say an offensive guard is not going to pass rush or cover anyone.
Cecil34 - January 24, 2012
DeCastro has potential to be all-time great at G
None of these defenders outside the top 5 has potential to be all-time anything. That’s what we’re dealing with.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
There is
that word again “potential.” If the Cowboys are thinking guard, and I believe they are, than signing Nicks is the better option. We know what Nicks is worth based on the Mankins and Greer signings. I really don’t think New Orleans wants 100 mil in contracts for their guards. Colston, Meacham, and Brees are all FAs too. 6 years 52mil, 30mil guranteed, 20 mil signing bonus and I bet you can have Nicks and do what you want in the draft. It’s the smarter move.
jevans1729 - January 24, 2012
I'm in favor of signing Nicks and drafting DeCastro
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
That might be a
litttle bit of overkill if you have to take DeCastro at #14. If you already have Nicks, I think you can move back a few spots and maybe still get DeCastro. You probably couldn’t move farther than maybe #18, which would probably net you a 6th rounder. For my money, I would take a Janoris Jenkins at #18 for example, and take Gilmore or BPA at #45. As you can see, I thought the secondary was abysmal and I’m for cutting Newman so I can pay Nicks.
jevans1729 - January 24, 2012
good chance Decastro is gone by 14
so no way do you get him if you drop back
burmafrd1944 - January 24, 2012
Totally agree, we'll be lucky if he makes it to #14.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
Maybe he
will be gone but that is more reason that getting Nicks is a must. That situation is a little more controllable since there is no draft involved. However, traditionally guards last until the second half of the 1st round so its not impossible.
jevans1729 - January 24, 2012
possibly true.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
if he is that good then you of course take him.
But if he is not there do we then go for Peter Konz at 14
and if he is not there do we then go for Kevin Zelter at 14?
This OL or bust thinking isn’t rational
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
I wouldn't
but then people are entitled to their opinions.
jevans1729 - January 24, 2012
I don't see anyone saying OL only at 14.
If DeCastro is gone then BPA at a position of need. But what if Konz or Zelter ARE the BPA on the Cowboys board? Then take him.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
Really, are we talking John Hannah type ablity here. I'm excited if we are.
CowboyMan - January 24, 2012
yes we are
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Don't read too much into one weekend's games
Just because the scores were relatively low doesn’t mean that the offensive lines weren’t very important in winning. And it likely took much of a season’s worth of positive OL play to even get to the Championship games.
All four teams have superior OLs. It was a big reason why they were in position to go to the SB.
ary201 - January 24, 2012
yeah diferent coaches and different players along side each other.....
same as a pro bowl, your not going to know the players or the coaches as well if they all were from the same team; nor are the players familiar with the guys next to em . is a few days of practice really going to change that fact a whole lot ?.
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
The defense doesnt really matter
if your QB is always on his back or running for his life because you have to score to win. Even if your defense holds the other team to one score, if you dont score more than that, you lose.
Protecting the QB and being able to run the ball is the key to winning in the NFL…IMHO….because when it is all said and done it is the team that SCORES the most that wins.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
if we do not significantly improve the O line
Romo will be on the IR by the 10th game or dead
burmafrd1944 - January 24, 2012
Funny...
I’ve always thought Mayock to be a hot bag of air. I think some draft fans get duped into thinking he’s some genius because he talks with a definitive authoritative ton.
I simply think he likes the sound of his own voice.
The one guy I do like is Wes Bunting, although I’ve disagreed with more of his assessments on this year’s prospects than I ever have in the past.
Phillyboijr - January 24, 2012 via mobile
He hasn't been as exposed as Mel Kiper Jr.
Nor do the other personalities on the NFLN give him as much deference. Just wait for him to be dead wrong on a handful of players, which he’s bound to be, and everyone will consider him a joke again. Don’t get me wrong, I still think he’s a valuable source, just that I don’t see if he’s tangibly better than Todd McShay.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
Man, we got so many gaps to fill and RB doesn't seem to be one of them
but has anyone seen BSU RB Doug Martin in the Senior Bowl practices yet?
I know that dude is strong as hell, has great speed and moves as well. He can run through or around and is adept at between the tackles, toss sweep, Pass Blocking, and catching out of the backfield.
I just read he weighed in yesterday in Mobile at 219 with not an ounce of fat on his body. Journalist I read said he looked like he was a body builder with how lean he was…at 219!
God, I think this guy is going to be really damn good at the NFL level.
pjohn56 - January 24, 2012
I been high on Doug Martin since 2010
I like this kid a lot. I would give Felix the boot in the rear out the door to get this kid.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
After listening to Jerry
at the Senior Bowl I think he is going to go hard after Nicks, meaning Decastro will probably not be a priority for the Boys in the draft. I think he is finally understanding how important it is to generate pressure from his talk about the Giants D. Also said he thinks the Ravens are a good team to model our defense after…can you say a huge NT?!
BRANDtheSKY - January 24, 2012 via mobile
yeah, we've been waiting years for a huge NT.
Are there any good ones out there for this year’s draft?
pjohn56 - January 24, 2012
I need to learn
more but that Poe guy is apparent huge. Chia where is Poe being projected now?
BRANDtheSKY - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Depending on where you read
He’s projected between 14-28
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Garrett wants Laurent back in a bad way
Josh Ellis reporting that Garrett said “we definitely want Laurent back” and “he’s a big part of what we’re doing here”. Got this from the latest mothership blog post.
KeyOfZ - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Good.
He was our best WR last year.
BRANDtheSKY - January 24, 2012 via mobile
And assuming they solidify the line, a continued progression of Dez
and better health for Miles, this could be an incredible passing offense.
OK, that’s a lot to assume. But that’s how I roll!
dunkman - January 24, 2012
disagree dunk, it should be expected
Re-sign Robinson, acquire center and guard = top 5 offense in 2012
Terry - January 24, 2012
correct top 1 offense.
thebigham - January 24, 2012
And he couldn't even make the roster in SD. Does that mean our other receivers couldn't either, or that Norm
is headed out the door.
CowboyMan - January 24, 2012
I think it says
something about our offense and about just how good Romo is.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
It was strictly a numbers things with Robinson in SD
Norv really liked him and while SD and Dallas were working out together Norv recommended Robinson to Garrett. Garrett and the staff had a great look at him during the drills, scrimages and game with SD.
Birddog26 - January 24, 2012
great news, I knew re-signing him would be a major priority as it should be
Terry - January 24, 2012
hope we get him back
and then we get back Raymond Radway, he was so impressive last training camp before he got hurt. He’s got the size AND speed to contend
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
but how will that injury effect his speed ?
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
That injury made
Joey Galloway faster than he was before the injury.
I think Radway is very intriguing and so does Belichick. He was pestering Jerry left and right to get Jerry to trade him to the Patriots and Jerry kept saying no.
Now if he turns out to be really good, all the Jerry haters will be silent. If he turns out to be a bust, all the Jerry haters will be saying “I told you Jerry was dumb!”
I cant wait to see more of this kid, I saw some things in him that you just dont see that often in a WR.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
impossible.
I don’t think many understand just how fast Joey Galloway was before his injury.
Even Deion Sanders was afraid of him. And it was Deion Sanders who suggested that the Cowboys get him.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
It was reported in several places that
by rehabbing the leg that was injured, it actually make him faster. Not joshing anyone on that, it was reported that way several places including from Joey himself that he was like several hundredths faster.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
At any rate he was a lot more scary with Seattle than after he was traded.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
yeah i was deeply disapointed in seeing him ijured, but i hope that he can rebound and show us all what he brings to the table this year .
i like his height and speed .
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
at senior bowl practice
Mayock mentioned because of all the juniors that came out, some of the players he has in his top 5 he hasn’t seen much tape on, so these rankings may shuffle around a bit, like Kirkpatrick and Brockers.
DEL1SLE - January 24, 2012
Chia done any more homework on Andre Branch?
This is the first time I’ve seen him show up in an expert top 5 at DE/OLB so far, and I’d expect him to gain some steam. I know Clemson guys aren’t your cup of tea, but the dude gets after the QB.
KeyOfZ - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Brockers is your
typical casenof measureables not meeting production, and only starting one yr as a redshirt sophmore.
He’s got bust written on him. Anyone who takes him in the top 15 is throwing that pick away.
The best argument that anyone can make for him is that drafting him requires patience for him to develop…this is like drafting a tweener forward/center or euro big man in the NBA draft. Rarely do these guys pan out. You draft the guy expecting Dirk Nowitzki, and end up getting Tskitisvili production at worst or Bargangni/Gallinari production at best. Just leaves a lot to be desired.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I think
if we can draft a big NT (350 lb) and have RAT and HAT on the ends our D-line pressure will be SO much better. Add an actual pashrushing OLB and our front 7 just got a whole lot better with only two new faces.
BRANDtheSKY - January 24, 2012 via mobile
pass rushing*.
Aka don’t want Brockers.
BRANDtheSKY - January 24, 2012 via mobile
There are some NT's other than Poe in the later rounds worth drafting.
I hope they take one of them.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
Agreed.
It doesn’t have to be Poe, but please Jerry take one. It’s the basis of a 3-4 defense! Just look at what Vince Wilfork did on Sunday.
BRANDtheSKY - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I agree, I like Poe but really want that pick used for someone else, ie, DeCastro
Ingram or Jenkins are my top 3, but I could live with Perry, even Upshaw. I’m a bit down on Dre because of Mayock and one of the dumbest moves ever, a drug bust right before the draft.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
It wasnt a drug bust its a misdemeanor
And the lowest arrestable misdemeanor even lower than a speeding ticket. Come on people 14 states have it legalized for medical use. Soon to be recreational use. Much rather him get stoned the drunk at a bar.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
While I agree marijuana isn't really a big problem,
it’s the fact that he risked getting caught with it during one of the most important times of his life that I have a problem with.
DEL1SLE - January 24, 2012
Your also asking a 21 year old kid
To conduct himself as a responsible adult. College is widely known to be the party years of your life. Even those guys who are there for academics and go on to be very wealthy citizens party alot in college. I would not ask my kid to buckle down and keep your eye on the prize the whole time. That’s how kids get burned out and loss track of what’s really important. Kids make.mistakes if they do it now it leaves less to be desired when they do make it to the pros. I can’t say he smoked a joint caught with a small bag of pot he is trash cause its just not the case. Now on the other hand with the national media hate for the cowboys this is about like having Dez on our team he likes to be young and so what young kids do media will tear him up for this and we don’t necessarally need that at the moment. Talent is just that and passing up on amazing talent cause of pot is stupid.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Thats just not true
Nowadays its more like High School or Middle school haha
thebigham - January 24, 2012
I think it should be legalized.
But it doesn’t matter how many states have legalized it. It only matters that Goodlell and the NFL have NOT legalized it.
fs65 - January 24, 2012
do not use a first on a pot head
who is dumb enough to get caught just months before the most important day of his life
burmafrd1944 - January 24, 2012
I agree, Claiborne will be gone and the only DB I'd consider at #14 is Jenkins.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
It might be possible to get Dre Kirkpatrick and Jenkins with a trade down.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
Part of being free is the ability
to do “stupid” things that only affect yourself, without your neighbors (the government) telling you it is not good for you and making it a crime to be dumb.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Where do you live?
The parts I’ve been around being dumb should be a crime.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
Doing drugs effects more then just yourself.
Especially behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.
thebigham - January 24, 2012
Was he?
I mean I get you, don’t drive high…but if he’s just lighting up with his boys you won’t hear me complain.
Tis all.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
they were in a truck with it on the floor
thebigham - January 24, 2012
Didn't read that part.
Omar Little - January 24, 2012
alcohol plays a infinite bigger role in traffic deaths than any drug ever has
alcohol is a depressant which slows your reaction time and dulls your senses.
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
Okay, so because Alcohol kills more, it should be okay to drive high?
thebigham - January 24, 2012
lol big....
i didnt say it was right ,, just saying heheheh )
IRONRAVEN - January 24, 2012
Actually ill agrue yes it is ok
The only negative thing about pot and driving is the lack of attention to the road while smoking same as cigs. Not the effect of the smoke.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Actually how many traffic deaths have been reported cause of pot.
Ill answer it for you but instead ill have you look it up cause the answer is a statistic that can’t be overlooked especiallywhen compared to talking on cell phone and deaths in vehical. So pot is safer than talking on the phone …..hahahaha nice.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
You are completely missing the point.
If someone being high can have an effect on their driving(and make no mistake about it, it does, thats why its a drug) then it violates what you guys are saying
It effects my freedom of living.
thebigham - January 25, 2012
Noxit does not affect driving i
Its been tested and proven 2 diffrent studies one in 2005 and one in 1999 both shown that thc did not affect driving in urban or royal traffic conditional get your facts right before you make statements.
Sado44 - January 25, 2012 via mobile
sigh.
Then it wouldn’t be classified as a drug, now would it?
Studies are slanted towards whatever agenda they are trying to push and who funded them.
Getting high is an altered state of mind which in return would effect motor skills. I have seen it first hand.
thebigham - January 25, 2012
Do you also think alcohol should be illegal because people drive drunk?
Everyone except Sado means smoking pot in the same way that it is now legal to drink: over 21, in your house or a bar by taking a cab.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
I wouldn't care.
Just proving a point that weed can be harmful to other people.
thebigham - January 25, 2012
Sure, but there are a lot of already legal things that can be harmful to other people.
We are just saying that pot can be used in a responsible way that does not harm other people, just like alcohol when used responsibly.
BTW, I don’t smoke and get tested in my job.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
But what if you stayed in your house?
And you had a million dollars, so any injury you sustained would be easily covered.
The problem is “who gets to say what is stupid?” Whoever it is, gets to boss the rest around.
The defeinition of freedom is the ability to do whatever you want as long as it doesnt interfere with someone elses freedom to do what they want.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Coach is right
The problem is and always will be this country preaches freedom but doesn’t allow it. We fight for freedom but won’t condone it. Can’t govern free people and get filthy rich doing it so we aren’t allowed to be free. Just act as if we are until we do something someone with a more important roll says that was wrong then it s to late great talent gets lost. Anyways don’t pass a guy like Dre cause he got high when our last three president’s also admitted to doing it.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Yeah, not going to kill a kid for smoking pot.
That’s not a “gots to go” situation. Stupid thing to do, for sure…but not giving up on him based on just that.
Omar Little - January 25, 2012
I think we should pass on Dre.
But it is not because I think pot is terrible or even illegal in the states.
It is because Goodell and the NFL test for it and will suspend him. Sure current Cowboys PROBABLY smoke, but we KNOW that Dre does.
fs65 - January 25, 2012
Ehhh...
If DeCastro is gone and Dre’s there I’d take him.
Omar Little - January 25, 2012
Dont get me wrong
I would never do pot, but I want the freedom to do it if I want to be stupid, otherwise I am not really free since it can be done without harming anyone else.
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
He's still stupid to have done it. That's my problem with it. J is not the issue,
it’s his decision making that I have a problem with. Totally dumb, dumb ,dumb. At least Janoris has redeemed himself and he has a better skill set.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
Vince Wilfork isn't just a big guy though
he’s a big guy that can rush and be disruptive. Those types are what you want and are insanely rare to find
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
Yup
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
Yes
and impossibly hard to find if you dont draft or sign anyone that large
BigBad Joe - January 24, 2012
If Geathers from UT would have come out he would have been the best NT in the draft. He's only a sophomore though and decided to go back to school.
matt575 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I like him already then.
Although, I do despise UT.
GunsUp - January 24, 2012
Whooop!
matt575 - January 25, 2012 via mobile
Poe is a big dude 6'5 350
Brockers isn’t plugger
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Brockers is 4-3 DT or 3-4 DE...not NT
Terry - January 24, 2012
Don't expect JJ Watt production from Brockers
Brockers struggles as a pass rusher. he’s more of a Marcus Spears type player.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
Don't worry too much
I don’t think Dallas will pick D linemen in the 1st round in a while unless they switch to a 4-3
Trueblue122 - January 24, 2012
He would be a 3-4 DE
6’6 and 300-ish lbs with long arms
somebodyquiet - January 24, 2012
He's not that good as a pass rusher
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012
JPP had great measurables without great production
He was seen as a raw athlete that would take a year or so to refine. I’m not saying I see the same potential in brockers, but stats don’t tell the whole story. Remember, there are three kinds of lies: lies, Damned lies, and statistics.
matt575 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I hope Mayock increase his draft ranking once he has more time to evaluate Brockers.
He declared late so I’m not surprised at Mayock’s initial take on him.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
I'd include him in may list of 1st rounders if that were the case.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
JPP
Played JUCO for 2 years and produced really well, enough to get a scholarship to USF, where he played decent. JPP was less of a risk.
Brockers has played 2 years at LSU, and hasn’t done anything to warrant Dallas taking him with the 14th pick. The only reason people on here are high on Brockers, from my estimation, his showing against Georgia and Bama his final two games, it’s the whole recency thing, plus he stated to be a Cowboys fan. Watch LSU games for the whole season, or highlights if you’d like, I don’t see anything special about him.
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Is it me or is my impression that we do much better trading up to draft a player rather than trading down for more picks wrong?
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
I hate when we trade down.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
The 2009 draft will do that to you.
Tom Ryle - January 24, 2012
Just on my gut feeling,
I might think long and hard at trading my 4-7 picks every year to pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd because those are the guys that normally wind up starting, where the 4-7 rounders are normally backups.
Anyone else get that “intutive” feeling? Anyone have any stats to back that up or to shoot it down?
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Those are my feelings too Coach.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
I can be pursuaded in
either direction because I like facts better than gut feelings, but until I see the facts, I like intution or gut feelings….
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
agreed coach
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
There is only 1 Jerry Jones. No other team is going to be dumb enought to..
trade their second rounder for a 4.5.6. Studs win in this league. Manure stinks. Only Jerry is dumb enough to make those kinds of trades.
football mensa - January 25, 2012
Throw mud at the wall and hope some sticks?
Not saying I agree, it’s just not as open and shut as you make it out to be.
Omar Little - January 25, 2012
Intresting thought here
I heard today from a guy I do some side business with that he talked to a scout ( name not given ) said that they feel OK with giving a third round pick up and possibly even a second to grab the best corner in the draft. The reasoning is Bruce Carter he was a steal where they selected him and this is the year he actually going to contribute to the team. So last season is over and nothing can be changed but getting him plus the best corner in the draft and an oline in third or d line to help the move for Ratliff. He also said they may not take a dt cause they like what they have just need more depth there to be comfortable. Depth players come.rounds 4-7. He might be onto something.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
I can see that kind of move.
If the team is committed to CB as their #1 priority in the draft (which might happen if they get a good C/G in FA), then I can see giving up a pick – 3rd round would be ideal, since they should be getting a 3rd for Bowen leaving to make up for it (to some extent).
Tom Ryle - January 24, 2012
Thats what i gatherd
A second would be to much for Claiborne I see to much potential in second round talent to give it up for a little better corner than what can be had at 14. Third would be fine still end up with a pick and two second round picks starting this year. Never know I think alot depends on who is licked IP in free agency.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Jerry Jones said he would definitely get younger this year in the secondary... I don't think that means we get rid of Elam
but definitely TNew, he also had some pretty negative comments about TNew closing out the season. I guess his value has dropped and playing injured is not an excuse. C-U-T
And what was that about the interior linemen? He definitely was not happy with the youth movement… if you ask me Dockery and Kosier should be gone. We should keep Holland if we can but if not expect a couple veterans and at least 1 high draft pick. I think you could wait until the 2nd round if you trade up for a corner. Some very positive comments about Jenkins though, he’s a keeper.
Safety? I guess you have to hold on to Sensi but Elam could have some competition even if we re-sign him… Jerry just has this “I’m going to spend $$ this year” attitude. I guess its more of the same from Jones-Garrett, what they couldn’t do last year, they want to do this year… more $$ and more time.
Hey, and pretty obvious but… again he said that he values Romo and doesn’t want to spoil an opportunity with an great QB. OG/C and CB early in the draft is what I’m hearing, plus more competition at all positions including OT, maybe move Arkin to OT and Free to OG? Tyron Smith is really the only guy with a secure position on the line… I could see Costa and Free moving to OG… Arkin might be better at OT. Do you get the feeling Arkin might be another year away though???
scraig - January 24, 2012
Unfortunately for T New his age is part of his injury problem. He'll never be healthy, so he has to go.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
agreed
scraig - January 24, 2012
Devon Still is a Stud! Mike Mayock got that one right.
He really looks the part of a 3-4 DE: He’s big, fast, and powerful with long arms and good motor. He was by far Penn State’s best (and really the only consistent) pass rusher, and that was from the DT position. He also made a ton of TFLs in the run game
Yoko Romo - January 24, 2012
Id love to pick up still
In the first would replace Coleman but they maybe looking for rat to do that cause plugger can be found in later rounds for nt. Brent isn’t bad just need someone to push him and someone to spell him. Besides rob said he has alot of 4-3 schemes and we might even make the switch. If our great players only 3 ATM are for it I’d see it happening. More or less kinda slowly faze the 3-4 out.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
You want to keep both
the 3-4 and the 4-3 because the 3-4 has some advantages you dont want to just abandon.
I see us doing the smart thing and do both depending upon the situation, (down and distance), and the team we are playing.
Mix in both is what most teams are moving toward if I am not mistaken.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
I agree coach 100%
The 3-4 has been the model for successful defense in the league and moving from it to the 4-3 doesn’t have the same appeal. Then again personal is easier to find in the 4-3 less transition from collegiate lvl to the pros.
Sado44 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Partly true.
But accordint to Parcells, it is harder to find a good rush DE than it is a good rush OLB.
But, like you said, there is less transition from the College DLine, than you see from small DE to rush LB.
CoachGary - January 24, 2012
Coach
If health is not an issue, do you take Still in first round, or Jared Crick in second round?
Rohpuri - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Well, depends on
how many first round picks I have in my pocket.
I am a big believer and have been for the last 5-10 years, that the O-Line is the most important group in the NFL. Most important single player is the QB, but as a group it is the group that keeps the QB upright and allows time to find his receivers even on 7 step drops (the best and most important plays), and to pancake people in the run game so in the 4th quarter you can hold on to the lead by just controlling the clock with run plays even if they know it is coming.
Having said that my understanding is that Crick is listed as a 4th rounder, so If I was not concerned about the offensive line, I would take Devon Still.
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
But I would trade down
to the mid 20’s to get him so he would then be the BPA for that spot.
Need + Value = BPA.
The reason teams trade up is to get the player of need at the spot he has value. Value + Need = BPA.
If Dallas wants Kirkpatrick as bad as I think they do, they would have to trade up to get him and then he would be the BPA that fits a Need….Win-Win.
CoachGary - January 25, 2012
I like him too but #14 seems a little high for him.
pfloyd1 - January 24, 2012
His 40 time is 5.0
No way at 14 do I take him.
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
This is a great year for a trade down.
If DeCastro isn’ t there then it is an easy choice
There is a lot of LB and CB talent in this draft . Trading down would allow the Cowboys to take advantage of the way this draft is
Jonathan Stern - January 24, 2012
ABSOLUTELY!!!!
Tyrone Jenkins - January 25, 2012
DeCastro, Decastro, DeCastro
De nono! The Cowboys NEED a pass rusher and a secondary! The offense piled up double digit LEADS it was the DEFENSE that gave them away! Or, have MOST of you missed the FACT that THREE (NYG, SF & the Ravens) of the four teams in the Championship games got there because of tough DEFENSIVE squads?! Personally I’d like to see them take Massaquoi (the guy from Troy; Ware’s Alma Mater, that they’re touting as “the NEXT D. Ware!”)
Trade down? Trade FELIX JONES! Morris is good for another year or two and they need to find somebody ELSE’S bench for Felix to hug!
Howleyesque - January 26, 2012
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