SB Nation - Login for mobile commenting

Blogging The Boys

Finding Playmaking Outside Linebackers In The 2012 Draft: Ingram, Upshaw & Co.

Is there another DeMarcus Ware in this year's draft class?

Layne Murdoch - Getty Images

Is there another DeMarcus Ware in this year's draft class?

Early in his tenure as defensive coordinator in Dallas, Rob Ryan weighed in on the importance of outside linebackers for his defensive scheme:

"If you're going to play a 3-4 defense and don't have outside backers, you don't have a defense," said 3-4 expert Rob Ryan. "You've got to be able to set the edge and rush a passer. It starts with them. They've got to be playmakers. That's what you get in a 3-4."

Perennial All-Pro DeMarcus Ware continues to be a matchup nightmare on the right side of the Cowboys defense, notching 19.5 sacks this season, but bookend OLB Anthony Spencer collected only six sacks. Spencer is terrific against the run and can also cover but OLBs are measured on disruptive and Spencer has never quite put up the numbers many were hoping for. Spencer is entering free agency, so the Cowboys may be looking for a replacement player in the draft.

After the break, we take a look at the options at OLB in the 2012 draft class. We'll do that using a statistic called 'Production Ratio' to assess the OLB prospects and to find out how many OLB playmakers will be available for the Cowboys in the draft.

Star-divide

The Production Ratio was initially proposed by NFL.com's Pat Kirwan in his book titled "Take Your Eye Off the Ball", and is really a very simple formula that adds up sacks and tackles-for-loss and divides them by number of college games played. The resulting ratio is one tool among many - albeit a pretty good one - that measures the playmaking potential of front seven players coming out of college.

The Production Ratio is calculated as follows:

(SACKS + TACKLES FOR LOSS) / NUMBER OF GAMES PLAYED = PRODUCTION RATIO

What you want in a Production Ratio is a score of 1.0 or better. Effectively, a score of 1.0 says that a player recorded one splash play in the defensive backfield per game.The higher the number, the better.

But before we look at the 2012 draft class, let's look at last year's standout OLB rookies and their college Production Ratio:

NFL College Production
Draft Round / Pick Player Team Sacks 2011 Sacks TFL Games Production Ratio
Round: 1 / Pick: 7 Aldon Smith SF 14 17 29 23 2.00
Round: 1 / Pick: 2 Von Miller DEN 11.5 33 50.5 47 1.78
Round: 1 / Pick: 16 Ryan Kerrigan WAS 7.5 37.5 55.5 48 1.94
Round: 2 / Pick: 43 Brooks Reed HOU 6 17 25 46 0.91
Round: 3 / Pick: 70 Justin Houston KC 5.5 20 38 36 1.61
Round: 2 / Pick: 39 Akeem Ayers TEN 2 14 29.5 37 1.18

Overall, the Production Ratio appears to be one good indicator for how good a college player could be at the NFL level. Of course, there are a multitude of other factors that determine how well a prospect will do both at the college and NFL level, but the correlation between college production and NFL production is strong enough to take a long hard look at the 2012 class using that stat. Before we go there though, here's what the College Production Ratios for the Cowboys OLBs look like:

Draft Round / Pick Player School Sks TFL Games Production Ratio
Round: 1 / Pick: 11 DeMarcus Ware
Troy 27.5 57 43 1.96
Round: 1 / Pick: 26 Anthony Spencer
Purdue 21 44 47 1.38
Round: 4 / Pick: 110 Victor Butler Oregon St.
25.5 39.5 49 1.33
Undrafted Alex Albright Boston College 14 30 30 1.47

What stands out immediately here is Ware's very high Production Ratio in college, which obviously translated well into the NFL. If we take last year's OLB rookies and the current Cowboys OLBs as a baseline, this would suggest that the threshold for a successful NFL OLB is probably somewhere around the 1.4-1.5 mark, while a score closer to 2.0 could be an indication that a prospect has a good chance of becoming a very good OLB in the NFL.

2012 Outside Linebackers

Now on to this year's draft class. The following table shows the current top-ranked outside linebackers, sorted by their CBS Draft Rankings (OVR is the overall ranking on the CBS big board from January 16th).

OVR Player School Height Weight Sacks TFL Games Production Ratio
12 Quinton Coples North Carolina 6-6 285 24 40.5 50 1.29
14 Melvin Ingram South Carolina 6-2 276 21 30.5 50 1.03
16 Nick Perry USC 6-3 250 21.5 29.5 37 1.38
21 Courtney Upshaw Alabama 6-2 265 16.5 35.5 53 0.98
31 Whitney Mercilus Illinois 6-4 265 18 29 37 1.27
52 Ronnell Lewis Oklahoma 6-2 244 10 20.5 34 0.90
55 Bruce Irvin West Virginia 6-3 245 22.5 29 26 1.98
56 Chandler Jones Syracuse 6-5 265 10 27 32 1.16
58 Andre Branch Clemson 6-5 260 18.5 33 48 1.07
60 Vinny Curry Marshall 6-5 242 26.5 49 45 1.68
62 Jonathan Massaquoi Troy 6-2 270 19.5 31 25 2.02
85 Brandon Lindsey Pittsburgh 6-2 250 22.5 33.5 45 1.24
129 Malik Jackson Tennessee 6-5 270 13 27.5 39 1.04
162 Shea McClellin Boise St. 6-3 258 19.5 32 49 1.05
167 Darius Fleming Notre Dame 6-2 255 15.5 32.5 50 0.96
181 Olivier Vernon Miami (FL) 6-4 265 9 21 30 1.00
192 Jacquies Smith Missouri 6-4 255 13 26 51 0.76
205 Jack Crawford Penn St. 6-5 265 14 26 48 0.83
206 Adrian Robinson Temple 6-2 250 22.5 33.5 50 1.12
207 Kyle Wilber Wake Forest 6-5 240 13.5 35.5 43 1.14
232 Julian Miller West Virginia 6-4 268 27.5 42.5 52 1.35
312 Frank Alexander Oklahoma 6-4 255 20.5 44 48 1.34

Two things stand out here. At first glance, based on these Production Ratios, this does not look to be a promising draft class for playmaking outside linebackers. Only three players, Irvin, Curry and Massaquoi have a Production Ratio above 1.4 and some of the more highly touted prospects have downright awful values.

The second thing that stands out is that two out of the top three players, Irvin, and Massaquoi have recorded only about half the games most of their peers have. This brings us back to last year's draft class. Aldon Smith had the best production ratio among OLBs (2.00) after playing only 23 college games, and J.J. Watt rated as the best defensive end (1.85). Watt started his college career at Central Michigan as a tight end before moving to Wisconsin for his final two years and 26 games as a defensive end.

In this year's class, Bruce Irvin is a JUCO transfer and only played two years at West Virginia. Massaquoi is also a JUCO transfer with only two years at Troy. Other players played for only three seasons before declaring for the draft. Almost all of these players have an advantage in the Production Ratio rankings because in contrast to some other players, they don't have freshman or sophomore years to 'sully' their records.

So to even the playing field among the OLB prospects, the following table only contains the Production Ratio for the last two years of each player's college career. And this time, it's not sorted by the CBSSports rank but by Production Ratio.

OVR Player School Height Weight Sacks TFL Games Production Ratio
60 Vinny Curry Marshall 6-5 242 23 40 25 2.52
62 Jonathan Massaquoi Troy 6-2 270 19.5 31 25 2.02
55 Bruce Irvin West Virginia 6-3 245 22.5 29 26 1.98
12 Quinton Coples North Carolina 6-6 285 17.5 30.5 26 1.85
85 Brandon Lindsey Pittsburgh 6-2 250 18.5 29 26 1.83
312 Frank Alexander Oklahoma 6-4 255 15.5 32 26 1.83
21 Courtney Upshaw Alabama 6-2 265 15.5 31.5 26 1.81
14 Melvin Ingram South Carolina 6-2 276 19 26 27 1.67
31 Whitney Mercilus Illinois 6-4 265 17 25.5 26 1.63
162 Shea McClellin Boise St. 6-3 258 15.5 25 26 1.56
58 Andre Branch Clemson 6-5 260 16.5 25.5 27 1.55
232 Julian Miller West Virginia 6-4 268 15 25 26 1.54
207 Kyle Wilber Wake Forest 6-5 240 9.5 26 25 1.42
16 Nick Perry USC 6-3 250 13.5 20.5 24 1.42
56 Chandler Jones Syracuse 6-5 265 8.5 17 20 1.28
192 Jacquies Smith Missouri 6-4 255 10.5 19 24 1.23
52 Ronnell Lewis Oklahoma 6-2 244 9 18 22 1.23
129 Malik Jackson Tennessee 6-5 270 7.5 22 25 1.18
181 Olivier Vernon Miami (FL) 6-4 265 7.5 14 19 1.13
206 Adrian Robinson Temple 6-2 250 10 18 25 1.12
167 Darius Fleming Notre Dame 6-2 255 9.5 18 26 1.06
205 Jack Crawford Penn St. 6-5 265 8.5 12 23 0.89

Even though this list looks mighty enticing at the top, keep in mind that the numbers here are inflated by limiting the data to a player's last two years. By this methodology, the Cowboys' own Victor Butler should be a pass rushing phenom: Over the 26 games in his last two years at Oregon State Butler notched 22.5 sacks and 34 tackles for loss for a two-year Production Ratio of 2.17.

Nevertheless, the likes of Vinny Curry, Jonathan Massaquoi and Bruce Irving are highly intriguing prospects. And if any of them are still around when the Cowboys are on the clock with the 45th pick, I'd jump all over them.

This formula, like every other stat-based projective tool, is not going to be a perfect predictor of how successful these players are going to be in the NFL. But it does give you something to think about as you evaluate these players and their potential, and it may be one building block in identifying who this year's playmakers will be - and who won't. In a couple of weeks, the combine will provide us with some more metrics, giving us an even bigger data base from which to assess players.

Next week, we'll look at defensive ends and defensive tackles using the same metrics.

5 recs  |  113 comments

Comments

Should be able to get a rush linebacker upgrade to Spencer

In round 2 or 3, if you can trust this methodology.

I'm not sure if we read the same article

in which OCC clearly stated that Victor Butler had a better production rate than ALL of the guys listed if you compare similar data. VB was a 4th round pick – do we really want to use a 2nd round pick on a guy who’s production is expected to be less?

Also, this article is about pass rushing from the OLB spot. We all know Spencer is a pretty good run stopping OLB, but we know nothing of these guys.

I’d be very wary of trading in Spencer for Vinny Curry or Massoguia.

Thanks for calling out Butler

I’ve wanted to see more of him.

i agree

seem like every time butler is on the field, he is around the ball. He needs to play more. But the “experts” (if you can call them that) don’t think he is a 3 down player. I say, how do they know if he is hardly on the field

Very astute.

I agree, I have wanted to see more of him and now I’m intrigued by the possibility of Albright. Some of those Boston College linebackers look like they can play in the NFL. Mark Herzlich was starting for the Giants, despite being injury plagued. Don’t know what kind of numbers he put up, but the dude beat cancer not too long ago.

I think chandler jones could be the next jpp. He's an athletic freak just like his brother Jon.

I’m not sure what his reach is but his brothers is 6’4 with an 84.5" wingspan. Given that chandler is 6’5, his wingspan should be at least that large if not slightly more. I think once he lights up the combine he will be a hot name. I think if we could snag him in the third, we should jump on it.

I'm pretty lukewarm on Jones

not very high production and on film he just doesn’t jump out at me.

Reminds me more of Jason Hatcher than JPP.

Another Hatcher is good.

But not when you’re a second round pick.

Third, I meant.
not believer in Curry, but Massaquoi is my boy
I am also high on Massaquoi...

And it would be kinda cool to have two Troy dudes on the outside.

Really? I like Curry. I think he shows a ton of burst off the line.

He played quite well against the Buckeyes.

I don't see much college

but I know who Massaquoi is from repeatedly hearing his name…

If Frank Alexander goes undrafted

With him being an OK player, I could see us getting a potential bargain. If his stock rises, he wouldn’t be a bad late rounder, either. Good size for a 3-4 OLB.

I’m all for keeping Spencer for around 3yrs/10M.

Spencer laughs at your 3 years 10 million

Sensabaugh got 5 years 25 million and Spencer is much better at a more premium position.

Get ready to double that at least.

if true then .... Bye. Bye. Spencer .

not Buy .. Buy But goodbye . see ya later…..

I wouldn't mind him getting a 5 year

“prove it” deal, like scandrick and sensabaugh, either. After year 2, you can cut ties.

the cowboys still haven't appproached Spencer's agent

About a deal of ANY kind. That should tell you all you need to know.

I'm ready for Spencer to go.

I like it when the Cowboys give guys like Doug Free a shot. I think the same should follow for Victor Butler.

What

These stats don’t account for is level of competition… While curry and Massasoi look ready, do you realize there’s a difference between conference USA and sun belt? We need to start taking sec players…. They are at sec schools for a reason. They are bigger, faster, stronger and more pro ready… I’m tired of projects from small schools… That’s how we end up with bums like aoa and Jason Williams….

its also how we get players like Demarcus Ware and Larry Allen

you find playmakers at any level of the sport….the ones in higher programs more than likely feel more entitled than someone who has had to work their butt off their entire career to showcase their talent….

Yea but

For every ware and Allen I present to you aoa, Jason Williams, Robert Brewster, Joshua Thomas, and insert thousands of bums that people think can make the transition from small school to big boy football… If it ain’t sec, big 12 or big 10… 8 outta 10 times they can’t play

I cringe when you call any pro ball player a bum.
Bum

When I say bum Im comparing them to other players in the NFL at their position…. Not literally

yes, what Dallas needs is more marcus spears, glen dorsey, derrick harvey …

thats about the 3 worst selections in the 1st round from the SEC
Take your small school hate and shove it

1) SEC kids put up #s against garbage offenses and garbage QBs (see Jordan Jefferson, John Brantley, Jarrett Lee et al).

2) DeMarcus Ware, Osi from Troy, JPP from South Florida, think this is a ridiculous statement.

so what happened when the Ducks expolsive offense played LSU?

you cant take every players situation into account but in general the SEC has great defensive players. its the main reason the SEC owns the championship bowl & all those expolsive offenses land on there butts when they play NFL calibur talent on defense

I'm not an Oregon fan

But I guarantee U$C would have crushed LSU. U$C doesn’t use a gimmic spread offense. They have SEC talent on their roster, and have NFL ready talent on offense.

oh really? you guarantee?

whats a guarantee from you worth?

your "guarentee" aboiut USC is about as good as your SEC defenses stinking lol

USC had a few good years but the last i checked the Ducks own the Pac & now the Ducks are recruiting bigger DL to compete with SEc schools.

U$C is getting those players again

Lane Kiffin was one of their best recruiters. U$C is like the Hurricanes, SEC level talet on defense, and NFL level talent on offense.

U$C will be pre-season top 5 in the BCS, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up winning it all in 2012.

I will say this, I have watched a decent amount of USC stuff this offseason

scouting Perry, and the potential in that program is extremely high. Berkley, Woods, and Galippo all look like they are going to be very good NFL players.

Ok

So what about the Hank baskets, chase blackbucks, orie lemons, and other bums from small schools that litter NFL rosters? Guys like d ware come along once in a lifetime… Guys that come from small schools come a dime a dozen… Those guys would give their life to play sec ball… That’s big boy football and that’s why they own the bcs…

Yup, SEC is the only legit conference in College Football

Everyone else is chopped liver. The BCS Title game should just be the replay of the SEC West’s top matchup that year.

Ok

So if the sec doesn’t produce the best players why do they play for titles every year… Only Texas,USC,Ohio state, and Oklahoma can be mentioned with sec prospects… The rest of the conferences produce jags… Wisconsin gives you quality guys on the line but that’s it… And you guys are wanting to draft kids outta Marshall, Troy, and Arizona? Who does that?

I take the best players where ever they come from

That’s how every scout and gm approaches talent evaluation.

hmmm...

Randy Moss = Marshall
Demarcus Ware= Troy
Darren Woodson= Arizona

good talent is where you find it….

But you

You’re naming once in a generation type of players. Everyone else from those schools are jags

Woody is the exception to the AZ rule.

I’m an AZ guy.

the SEC cant help no other conference could compete with them.

even the next best schools like Ok St or Stanford would’ve been beat by multiple TDs so they did the right things rematching LSU & Ala

Have you heard of the PAC-12?

They had three teams in the top-10 in the polls that included USC despite their bowl ineligibility (AP Top 25 and ESPN Power Rankings): Oregon, Stanford and USC were ranked #4, #5 and/or #6, depending on the poll.

this type of comment is just as bad as saying the SEC has the only top flight NFL talent.

its shortsighted and makes you look stupid.

Ok so

In your opinion where do the best players come from?
Tell me what you think about:
Aoa
Jason Williams
Phillip tanner
Abram Elam

What you’ll find is they are all small school players that are pet cats and they are all bums…. Sure there are exceptions but far and few between…

im not saying either way. all the conferences lay claim to a good number of talent in the NFL.

and so much more matters after they get to their respective teams than where they went to school.

Your logic is lacking

Yes, picking out school vs. school or conference vs. conference, the level of talent in the SEC looks better at the NFL level. But If you were just thinking large conference schools vs. small conference schools as a whole, you will see closer numbers, because there are so many schools that don’t belong to the top 5-6 conferences. The indisputable fact is that a small school can only recruit 1 or 2 playmakers each class, the rest are scrubs at the NFL level. But if you cull all the small school prospects, you can get a great list of NFL talent every year. That I’m sure of.

Look at the Cowboys roster:

Small school players:
Romo
Austin
Ware
Free
Hatcher
Elam
Robinson
Jenkins
Scandrick
Lissemore
Church
Arkin

Sure, some of these aren’t the greatest players, but some of Pro bowlers and most of them are solid.

This is where

You’re wrong… Most of them aren’t good. Romo, ware, hatcher, mike Jenkins went to south fla that’s not small… And was good but appears to already be declining… The rest of the list are jags…. That’s why were 6-10 to 8-8 type team… Jerry and co thinks those guys are good and they’re not…

Are you saying all those went to S Florida?
Tony Romo
Add to my favorites
#9 QB6’ 2", 228 lbsDallas Cowboys
Birth DateApril 21, 1980 (Age: 31)
Birth PlaceSan Diego, CA
Experience9 years
CollegeEastern Illinois

Ware went to Troy
Hatcher went to Grambling
Jenkins did go to S Florida.

OK, Jenkins went to S. Fla

I know, but it’s not a big football program. YOU are the one that said,

" Only Texas,USC,Ohio state, and Oklahoma can be mentioned with sec prospects… The rest of the conferences produce jags… Wisconsin gives you quality guys on the line but that’s it"

Here’s where you lose me. If someone mentions Ware, you say he’s a once in a generation player, if I mention Robinson, he’s a JAG. Huh? There’s nothing in between?

Austin is Good, Robinson is Good, Free is/can be a solid RT, Hatcher is a serviceable 3-4 DE. If we cut Hatcher last year, do you really think a team like the Pats or the Steelers wouldn’t have picked him up?

Fine, don’t look at the Cowboys, look around the league:
Ben Roethlisberger
Chris Johnson
James Harrison
Logan Mankins
Robert Mathis
Joe Flacco
Marques Colston
Greg Jennings
Jared Allen
Josh Cribbs
Jahri Evans….

Check out Arkansas.

They ended up #5 on the year and were up to #3 at one point. They are known for their O, not their D. The only 2 teams they lost to were LSU and the Tide.

i love the defensive prospects in the SEC.
I like them, not love them
That was where DeWare came from

so your analogy has some rather LARGE holes in it

would love to see this list resorted after the combine once we get their numbers...

show their 3 cone, 10 yard, and strength…..find the ones with the most burst, highest strength, and vertical as well to measure leg strength…all numbers that have been discussed that help to identify future ability as rushers in previous articles…

We’ll do exactly that after the combine. We’ll look at all those metrics and include calculations for Explosiveness and Lateral Agility as well.

Please include SackSEER in this as well

When Football Outsiders publish their Sackseer numbers, we’ll cover that as well.

thanks OCC & always great work
Good article OCC, I was hoping someone would make this post!

I can’t wait to add short shuttle and vertical jump to this data and see how all the pass rushers rank.

wasn't Burfict in that 2012 OLB class?

i know people dont care for his attitude but that kid could put some passion in this defense. right now the Dallas defense is exetremely soft

Spencer's Stupid Mistakes are What Kills Me

Facemask, untimely off-sides penalties, missing a RB assignment. I don’t even think we’d have much of a problem with Almost Anthony’s 5 sacks were it not for the facepalms he gave us almost every week with dumb mistakes. Also, if we had a d-lineman with ANY production it would take the microscope off our SOLB.

totally agree, we need a force in the middle and move ratliff to DE.

maybe we can find a big athletic NT in the later rounds of this yrs draft.

Dude, your quote is awesome.

And that is absolutely true for Spencer. I would love to see Victor Butler start.

I have to say, DWare had his fare share of off side penalties at inopportune times this year.
Yeah, but definately not 19.5 of them!!
Spencer...

I have a pretty high opinion of Spencer’s game. He is solid on the run, and considering our backfield’s tackling, I’m not mad at his ability to set an edge. He can cover, well.
By the eyeball test, I would say Spence has a production ratio of at least 1.5, and you want to start putting disruption plays in there, like QB hurries, that number is going to jump. I LOVE me some Rat, but Spencer would have had three more sacks in the Giants games alone if the D-line did their job and Eli did not have a pocket to slide into. Call him “Almost Anthony”, how about, “Were barely there at times D-Line”?

Butler will emerge this year!

When butler is on the field, he has performed well. If given a bigger role in the defense, I truly believe he will be the force we expected Spencer to be. I also think we can snag a really good OLB in the middle of the draft, round 3 or 4, just grab an athlete who is coachable.

I've seen Butler get stonewashed by backs

And waste time trying to finesse his way around them… After 6 seconds, he gets there, but he should be able to bull rush a back. He doesn’t seem to get low coming off the edge, and let’s backs get under his pads.

The same happens when he tries to arm tackle backs. Do you think Garrett and Ryan are too stupid to figure out who they’d rather have on the field?

Stonewalled

I chuckled.

Me too

I mean, who cares what kids of 1980s style jeans he wears after games?

And Butler is light – he does not have the same build that Spencer does. I’m surprised they haven’t used him in more passing situations, but he’s not a run stopper. The Patriots ran right at him.

This is true

I’m not the biggest Spencer fan, but it’s not all about sacks on obvious passing downs.

Sure we can upgrade Spencer, but we can also upgrade both DE spots and the NT spot.

+1

I think if we draft a true NT (cough Poe) slide Rat to DE and pick up a DE in FA (Cambell) the pass rush would be outstanding. This would also increase Spencer’s pass rushing stats. He gets great pressure but because the pocket isn’t collapsed the QB steps up and “AA” whiffs on the sack.

i have also seen

butler Make big plays. sacks, forced fumbles, tackles for loss, more than ive see him get stonewalled. He!! every player gets stonewalled every now and then, even Ware gets stonewalled.

Stonewalled by backs?

I swear it seems if we started Butler he would never get past Bradshaw of the Giants. I imagine Felix, Murray, and even Tanner stand him up in practice. Butler’s only chance is to run by or rip past the tight end. He doesn’t beat tackles and he can’t get by backs in a reasonable amount of time.

You want to compare that to Ware? He fights through the chipping tight end, and pushes left tackles back into the quarterback.

Being slightly faster than Spencer doesn’t mean much for Butler if the slightest obstacle brings him to a halt.

To look at ware we just have to go to the first game against the Redskins

When he pushed the tackle on him straight back and got through the RB at the same time. I believe that was the second time in the game he was arm tackled in order to keep him from Rex. I wish we had 5 more just like him.

Yep

And it pissed me off because the Ref watched it happen. The next offensive series for Dallas Free got called for holding on a clean block. I must have misunderstood the rule book, because I wasn’t aware that the ref could transfer penalties to the other team!

they stopped calling holding on the offense.
Character Metrics

Interesting post OCC. What is also needed is a metric to show a player’s mental character. How do they respond when consistantly double teamed? How do they play when getting blown out? Can they make a splash play in crunch time? We have all seen work out warriors that fizzle when the pressure is on.

I really wanted Spencer to pan out... since I have his autograph and all.
If not Butler maybe Albright

Either one of those dudes could easily replace Spencer. Signing that guy would be a mistake. But, I would rather see a ton of Defensive Backs drafted early. I saw a list of priority positions and I see it as O-Line & Secondary.

Two points

One, be careful saying things like “easily replace X.” We can replace him, we can upgrade, but it’s not going to be so easy as just plucking any rookie and inserting him. Remember, we thought we could “easily replace” Roy Williams (31), Ken Hamlin, Greg Ellis, Andre Gurode…

Two, signing Spencer would be a mistake if we overpay. Solid starters in the NFL are worth something. If he comes fairly cheap, we can upgrade a half dozen other spots on the defense by signing someone else and we’re not banking on Butler making a big leap or a rookie learning to play at the NFL level right out of the gate.

I dont think they could

Easily replace Spencer or it we would have seen alot more of them this year. Butler played cause ware got hurt a few times and needed the rest. Even then his production came on scrambling sacks and so on. Spencer will have to have a first rounder replace him to produce what he is right now. Can’t wait for it to happen and can’t wait to see the new stud toy everyone wanted produce less.

It would be intersting to see what SackSEER says

Obviously we’ll have to wait till the end of the combine for that though.

This may have been done before (sounds familiar)

But is it possible to see the combine numbers/SackSEER numbers for the LBs we currently have on the roster – Ware, Spencer (even though he’s an FA), Butler, Albright, Lee, Carter, and Lemon – I know there’s a new guy in there too that I’m missing.

SackSEER

Looks at:
1) Vertical Leap
2) Short Shuttle Time
3) SRAM: adjusted sacks per game (not sure how they do it)
4) Total eligible games missed for any reason except early entry into the draft.

Comparing Spencer to the rest of his 2007 classmates

Any chance we could get a comparison of Spencer’s score to the rest of the pass rushers from 2007?

i sure hope someone did better then Spencer out of that draft bc Spencer sure didn't do much

maybe it was a weak class in 2007 but Spencer sure didnt get the job done in 4 years.

Lamarr Woodley

according to the eye test, and just look at sacks, looked to be the better player in my opinion. more decorated player in college as well.

yeah that jogged my mind about L.Woodley so it does give us hope about an OLB being productive outside the 1st rd
Yes, Woodley is the obvious answer.

We could have had him easily too.

Jammaal Anderson and Jarvis Moss taken above him.

Woodley and Tim Crowder after.

Not the greatest class. I think Spencer actually one of the better players, all things considered.

I wanted Lamar Woodley

Im surprised he dropped to the 2nd rd.

I don’t know where I would find the data for all the other players, it was tough enough pulling Spencer’s stats out of various assorted scouting reports.

There needs to be a resource that keeps an updated data base
Spencer vs Woodley

Spencer’s Combime/Proday results:

Height: 6027
Weight: 261
40 Yrd Dash: 4.70
20 Yrd Dash: 2.74
10 Yrd Dash: 1.64
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 30
Vertical Jump: 32 1/2
Broad Jump: 09’04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.43
3-Cone Drill: 7.14

LaMarr Woodley:
Height: 6014
Weight: 266
40 Yrd Dash: 4.74
20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 9’9"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.42

3-Cone Drill:

Overall other than the “jump tests” Woodley and Spencer are fairly Equal

Went Here for info

i'm curious about the Marshall kid...
He's good, I live in west Virginia. I'm a WVU fan but I've seen curry play a lot too.

I don’t think he’s a first rounder but has potential to be a really good player in the nfl. I personally don’t think Bruce Irvan is a first rounder either. He needs to gain 25-30 pounds. He’s only 225, 245 is what he said he wants to go into the combine at. He’s quicker than everyone but he has no spin move or power move, he just beats guys to the outside. He was playing the wrong position at WVU. No way he’s a 3-3-5 D-end so that will help a lot but he’s not a first rounder. I’d like him or curry in the second though.

Both have great potential IMO

Irvan was a safety moved down to d-end so he hasn’t been playing the position all that long, he still has a lot to learn and may turn into a pro bowler one of these days. Curry’s numbers speak for themselves.

I'd like to see the same parameters applied to Spencer and all of these draft

prospects, but compared to the number of attempts at actually rushing the passer.

We’ve all heard that Spencer often drops into pass coverage or plays the run rather than rush the passer. If his pass rushing attempts were say half of D Ware’s then one could extrapolate that, had he had an equivalent number of rushes, his effective production ratio would double or more simply his effective sacks would be 12.

It seems to me that the above metric fails to include this important statistic, actual pass rushing attempts.

Very good post OCC.

It sure is interesting to see the career values for some players versus their last year or two in college. I guess which you prefer goes to your thoughts on whether talent can show up a year or two into college, but I would certainly be more forgiving of a player breaking out later if they have been at a big-time program where they may have had trouble getting on the field initially.

Also, I already liked Massaquoi (although he is 24) and Curry, but now I like them even more. I can’t wait for the combine to get an even better idea of what we are working with here.

So wait you are saying is ..

We can get DeCastro AND a stud pass rusher in the 2nd round eh? Sounds good to me.

stud pass rusher in 2nd? no way Perry, Ingram will drop there
um that irvin guy .. judging off these stats.
Am i wrong or is currys stats just outstanding

Isn’t he worth a # 45 or where ever we pick I have the second.

The issue is that

Teams often reach for pass rushers in the first, especially towards the back of the draft

the back of the first, that is
If Vinny Curry performs well at the combine

then he’ll probably be a first round pick

You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Blogging The Boys to post a comment.