Chris Trotman - Getty Images
"He’s going to be an outstanding player in this league."
Back in early January last year, signs were beginning to point towards Tyron Smith as the favorite for the Cowboys' first round draft pick.
This prompted us at BTB to take a look at how hard it is for first- and second round rookie linemen to hit the ground running in the NFL (see Can A High Draft Pick Be An Immediate Upgrade For Cowboys O-line?). Today, we're revisiting that post for two reasons. First, we want to see how Tyron Smith did in his first year in the NFL compared to other rookie linemen over the last four years, and second, the early favorite for the Cowboys first round pick this year is another lineman, offensive guard David DeCastro.
Over the last four years, 45 offensive linemen have been picked in the first two rounds of the NFL draft. After the break, we look at how Tyron Smith compares against these other linemen and what level of performance you can reasonably expect from rookie lineman.
We're going to dive right into the thick of things by looking at the full overview of all 45 linemen, the number of games they started each year, and how they were graded by Profootballfocus.com (PFF) in the tables below. Some observations and conclusions follow after the tables.
| Year | Round | Pick | Player | POS | Team | Games Started |
|
PFF Grade |
| 2011 |
|
2011 | ||||||
| 2011 | 1 | 9 | Tyron Smith | T | DAL | 16 | 13.7 | |
| 2011 | 1 | 15 | Mike Pouncey | C | MIA | 16 | -1.7 | |
| 2011 | 1 | 17 | Nate Solder | T | NE | 14 | -2.5 | |
| 2011 | 1 | 22 | Anthony Castonzo | T | IND | 12 | -7.0 | |
| 2011 | 1 | 23 | Danny Watkins | G | PHI | 12 | -8.4 | |
| 2011 | 1 | 25 | James Carpenter | T | SEA | 8 | -25.3 | |
| 2011 | 1 | 29 | Gabe Carimi* | T |
CHI | 2 |
-0.3 | |
| 2011 | 1 | 32 | Derek Sherrod* | T | GB | 5 |
-5.1 | |
| 2011 | 2 | 46 | Orlando Franklin | T |
DEN | 16 | -8.7 | |
| 2011 | 2 | 48 | Stefen Wisniewski | C/G | OAK | 16 | -7.3 | |
| 2011 | 2 | 50 | Ben Ijalana* | T |
IND | 1 | - - | |
| 2011 | 2 | 55 | Rodney Hudson | G | KC | 1 | - - | |
| 2011 | 2 | 60 | Marcus Gilbert | T | PIT | 14 | -4.2 |
| Year | Round | Pick | Player | POS | Team | Games Started |
|
PFF Grade | ||
| 2010 | 2011 | 2010 | 2011 |
|||||||
| 2010 | 1 | 4 | Trent Williams | T | WAS | 13 | 10 |
-22.6 | +3.8 |
|
| 2010 | 1 | 6 | Russell Okung | T | SEA | 10 | 12 | -2.6 | -8.7 |
|
| 2010 | 1 | 11 | Anthony Davis | T | SFO | 16 | 16 |
-26.6 | -15.0 | |
| 2010 | 1 | 17 | Mike Iupati | G | SFO | 16 | 11 | 9.6 | 9.6 | |
| 2010 | 1 | 18 | Maurkice Pouncey | C | PIT | 16 | 13 | -4.2 | 1.8 | |
| 2010 | 1 | 23 | Bryan Bulaga | T | GNB | 12 | 12 | -24.6 | 14.6 | |
| 2010 | 2 | 33 | Rodger Saffold | T | STL | 16 | 9 | -12.4 | -14.7 | |
| 2010 | 2 | 45 | Zane Beadles | G | DEN | 14 | 16 | 6.3 | -23.5 | |
| 2010 | 2 | 61 | Vladimir Ducasse | T | NYJ | 0 | 1 | - - | - - | |
| 2010 | 2 | 64 | Charles Brown | T | NOR | 0 | 6 | - - | -7.0 | |
| Year | Round | Pick | Player | POS | Team | Games Started |
|
PFF Grade | ||||
| 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | |||||||
| 2009 | 1 | 2 | Jason Smith* | T | STL | 5 | 15 | 6 | 0.2 | -16.7 | -6.2 | |
| 2009 | 1 | 6 | Andre Smith* | T | CIN | 1 | 4 | 14 | - - | -18.0 | 0.2 | |
| 2009 | 1 | 8 | Eugene Monroe | T | JAX | 13 | 15 | 14 | -4.5 | -15.1 | 12.1 | |
| 2009 | 1 | 21 | Alex Mack | C | CLE | 16 | 16 | 16 | 19.6 | 8.1 | 7.3 | |
| 2009 | 1 | 23 | Michael Oher | T | BAL | 16 | 16 | 16 | 9.8 | -10.8 | -8.2 | |
| 2009 | 1 | 28 | Eric Wood | C/G | BUF | 10 | 14 | 9 | -4.8 | -7.5 | 8.8 | |
| 2009 | 2 | 39 | Eben Britton | T | JAX | 15 | 7 | 1 | -5.9 | -2.2 | - - | |
| 2009 | 2 | 49 | Max Unger | C/G | SEA | 16 | 1 | 15 | 0.3 | - - | 3.3 | |
| 2009 | 2 | 51 | Andy Levitre | G | BUF | 16 | 16 | 3 |
-10.6 | -3.5 | 1.0 | |
| 2009 | 2 | 54 | Phil Loadholt | T | MIN | 15 | 16 | 16 | -1.2 | -22.7 | 1.1 | |
| 2009 | 2 | 58 | Sebastian Vollmer | T | NWE | 8 | 16 | 6 | 21.4 | 2.3 | 8.4 | |
| 2009 | 2 | 60 | Will Beatty* | T | NYG | 4 | 2 | 10 | - - | - - | -1.2 | |
| Year | Round | Pick | Player | POS | Team | Games Started |
|
PFF Grade | ||||||
| 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011 |
|
2008 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | ||||||
| 2008 | 1 | 1 | Jake Long | T | MIA | 16 | 16 | 16 | 14 | 20.1 | 28.7 | 24.3 | 4.4 |
|
| 2008 | 1 | 12 | Ryan Clady | T | DEN | 16 | 16 | 16 | 16 | -0.3 | 10.7 | 13.8 | -23.6 | |
| 2008 | 1 | 14 | Chris Williams* | T(G) |
CHI | 0 | 16 | 13 | 9 | - - |
11.7 | -12.5 | -9.6 | |
| 2008 | 1 | 15 | Branden Albert | T | KAN | 15 | 14 | 15 | 16 | -0.6 | -11.5 | -8.4 | 4.4 |
|
| 2008 | 1 | 17 | Gosder Cherilus | T | DET | 13 | 15 | 12 | 16 |
-14.2 | 1.4 | -1.5 | -6.7 | |
| 2008 | 1 | 19 | Jeff Otah | T | CAR | 12 | 13 | 0 | 4 | 7.3 | 0.3 | - - |
1.7 | |
| 2008 | 1 | 21 | Sam Baker* | T | ATL | 5 | 14 | 16 | 7 | -3.2 | -6.5 | -27.2 | -14.4 | |
| 2008 | 1 | 26 | Duane Brown | T | HOU | 16 | 16 | 12 | 6 |
-22.9 | -8.6 | 3.7 | -7.0 | |
| 2008 | 2 | 39 | Chilo Rachal | G | SFO | 6 | 15 | 14 | 10 | -0.1 | 5.7 | 13.6 | -8.7 | |
| 2008 | 2 | 59 | Mike Pollak | C/G | IND | 13 | 7 | 13 | 11 | -15.1 | -8.2 | -4.4 | 0.7 |
|
Based on these numbers, here are a couple of thoughts:
When you draft a lineman in the first two rounds, you are drafting an immediate starter.
Of the 45 linemen in this analysis, 33 (73%) started the majority of games for their teams in their rookie season. Eight other players (denoted with a *) suffered either serious or season ending injuries in their first year. That leaves only four players who did not start the majority of games in their rookie season. In other words, barring injury, 90% of offensive linemen taken in the first two rounds are starters in their first year. That's pretty encouraging for any team contemplating drafting an offensive lineman.
Rookie linemen have a steep learning curve.
Despite their high draft pick status, only eight of 45 (18%) linemen delivered an above average performance (marked in green in the table above) in their rookie season as graded by PFF. Keep in mind that a positive PFF grade means that a given player played better than the NFL average player at his specific position. A below average grade doesn't mean that a rookie necessarily played badly. In fact, an argument could be made that some of these guys actually played quite well, for a rookie.
Most rookie linemen arrive in the NFL still needing to improve their technique, work on their strength & conditioning, learn new playbooks and much more while facing wily veterans who will prey on their inexperience. This takes time.
Popular opinion holds that you can expect monumental improvement from rookies in their second year in the NFL. That may be true for many positions, but does not seem to be true for linemen. The sum of the second-year PFF grades for players picked between 2008 and 2010 is identical to their first year grades. Sure, some improved, and some regressed. A look at the tables above shows no significant improvement in the grades for all players between year one and year two. And a look at this year's Pro Bowl lineman presents a similar picture. The average Pro Bowl lineman is 28 years old and is in his sixth NFL season.
| NFC Pro Bowlers 2012 |
AFC Pro Bowlers 2012 |
|||||||
| POS | Player | Team | Age | NFL Seasons | Player | Team | Age | NFL Seasons |
| Tackle | Jason Peters | PHI | 29 | 8 | Joe Thomas | CLE | 27 | 5 |
| Joe Staley | SF | 27 | 5 | Jake Long | MIA | 26 | 4 | |
| Jermon Bushrod | NO | 27 | 5 | D'Brickashaw Ferguson | NYJ | 28 | 6 | |
| Guard | Jahri Evans | NO | 28 | 6 | Logan Mankins | NE | 29 | 7 |
| Carl Nicks | NO | 26 | 4 | Brian Waters | NE | 34 | 12 | |
| Davin Joseph | TB | 28 | 6 | Marshal Yanda | BAL | 27 | 5 | |
| Center | Ryan Kalil | CAR | 26 | 5 | Maurkice Pouncey | PIT | 22 | 2 |
| Scott Wells | GB | 30 | 8 | Nick Mangold | NYJ | 27 | 6 | |
Offensive linemen are not plug-and-play solutions to your O-line troubles. And for most of them, their learning curve needs to be measured in years, not months.
Tyron Smith Rocks.
Tyron Smith graded out with a +13.7, the fourth best value of any tackle in the NFL in 2011. It is also the fourth best rookie season value of the last four years, exceeded only by Jake Long, Alex Mack and Sebastian Vollmer. All three players have not had a single negatively graded season in their NFL careers so far and Mack and Long have both already made the Pro Bowl. Hopefully, that is a good sign for Tyron Smith's future, which, according to the recently retired Hudson Houck, looks very bright:
"He can certainly be a very, very good left tackle," Houck said during a Saturday appearance on ESPN Dallas 103.3 FM’s The Football Show. "This is an extremely talented guy. When you take a look at him being 20 years old to start with and not being able to have a minicamp, not being able to have OTAs and come in cold turkey and just be able to start on a team in the National Football League against very, very good players, this guy has done incredible things up to this point. …
"He is a tremendous worker and a very good person. He’s going to be an outstanding player in this league."
Guards & Centers
Here are the guards and centers picked in the first round over the last four years:
| Year | Round | Pick | Player | POS | Team | Games Started | PFF Grade | |||||
| 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | |||||||
| 2011 | 1 | 15 | Mike Pouncey | C | MIA | - - | - - | 16 | - - | - - | -1.7 | |
| 2011 | 1 | 23 | Danny Watkins | G | PHI | - - | - - | 12 | - - | - - | -8.4 | |
| 2010 | 1 | 17 | Mike Iupati | G | SFO | - - | 16 | 11 | - - | 9.6 | 9.6 | |
| 2010 | 1 | 18 | Maurkice Pouncey | C | PIT | - - | 16 | 13 | - - | -4.2 | 1.8 | |
| 2009 | 1 | 21 | Alex Mack | C | CLE | 16 | 16 | 16 | 19.6 | 8.1 | 7.3 | |
| 2009 | 1 | 28 | Eric Wood | C/G | BUF | 10 | 14 | 9 | -4.8 | -7.5 | 8.8 | |
Overall, that is not a bad haul of interior offensive linemen. Mack has already been to a Pro Bowl and Iupati should have been. Maurkice Pouncey got his first All Pro nod this year, and his brother looked promising in Miami. Danny Watkins and Eric Wood had trouble adjusting to the NFL in their first seasons.
However, none of these players were picked as high as the 14th pick. If the Cowboys do end up picking David DeCastro with their 14th pick, they had better be sure he'll have a Tyron Smith-type impact on the game.
1 recs | 473 comments
1st...I've never said that but it feels great!
mho - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
Ok seriously though-
I would first like all of you to think about this awesome post by OCC! Done? Good. Last seasons draft was all about rebuilding the line! Let those guys get some strength behind them and reform their technique and I think this line of Yuglies will do great; except for C ( Coasta sucks). These numbers show that taking a guard in the first round probably won’t to fix it this instant. Last year we complained that a top ten offense was overhauled instead of a porous defense.
This defense is terrible! We need so many holes filled it’s unreal. The FO should get a true 3-4 NT, a cover corner, a S, and a true Center (once again Coasta sucks)!
mho - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
Ok, why do you want to give extra time for all the young OL and exclude Costa?
Per OCC’s post a few days ago.
Check again the grades above for guys going from their 2nd to their 3rd year. And remember, these are all 1st and 2nd round guys, Costa is a UDFA.
Rena - January 16, 2012
But if you can upgrade that position, why wouldn't you? Do you want to see Romo
pay the price again while they try to develop Costa? After left tackle, center is the most important position on the O line, isn’t it?
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
Only as strong as the weakest link
all the OL positions are important, and if there were no salary cap or other needs on the team it is a no brainer to replace Costa, but there is a cap, and there are other needs as well…..can we fix all that is ailing us in one off season ?
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
No, we can't fix it all, but do you want to see Romo sidelined again? Can we
afford that? The interior of that line is what cost every injury Romo had this season.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
No, but do i want to watch that Dfense
give up 4th qtr leads all season either ? If they can do it on the cheap, sure if not, idk. Not sure they dont go with what they have at C and draft a guard….FA will be very interesting this year
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
Dunno. According to Broaddus (it's in a fanshot by Rena), they are
going to replace Costa. Agreed on FA.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
WIth KillerK or someone currently
outside the org ?
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
It doesn't say. Just says Valley Ranch is talking C first, not G as the top priority for the OL.
Rena - January 16, 2012
Thanks
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
I doubt Broaddus would be tweeting if it were just replacing him with
Kowalski. That said, I think Kowalski, with an off season, would be better than Costa.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
ageed on KillerK
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
A half-blind raccoon would be better than Costa
Let’s try to get a good center not a better-than-29th center.
Jerry, get on that private plane to Chris Meyers or Scott Wells and force them to return to Dallas with you.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
Kidnapping
I can get behind that idea :-)
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
I am kinda hoping for a decent FA that isn't to expensive.
The young OL guys we have may or may not be ready to go next year. It very well may take another year to get them up to average or above average. A vet C could help steady the young guys, especially if we don’t have Kosier out there. He tends to get injured.
Rena - January 16, 2012
+1
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
Of course we need a upgrade at C.
Actually I posted on the C post from OCC that I want a upgraded C, drafted, improved Costa or FA. Don’t just hand the job to Costa. Whatever the coaches determine helps best.
I just keep seeing all the double standards and wonder if people are actually reading the stories or if there is just repeating of what 1 or 2 people are posting. How they want to give time for some young guys to develop. But when it comes to Costa they want to trash him and ignore the fact that he is showing marked improvement.
Rena - January 16, 2012
BTW, I'm not necessarily arguing for the top pick to be O line, although what I'm
hearing about DeCastro makes it very tempting. The Cowboys have to go D heavy. But I still say they have to upgrade the center position, too, maybe in free agency.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
WHy does that feel great?
Seanrude - January 16, 2012
not sure...
I guess it is because I was the first person to read a great writeup by OCC. Usually there is a thread already going when I get a chance to sit down and read my daily dose of BTB.
mho - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
It burns to see Brian Waters on the Pro Bowl list
accidental innuendo - January 16, 2012
+54
Rat-Pack - January 16, 2012
yeah, supposedly not signed because the "youth movement"-derrick dockery, holland
or because he would have wanted to start-either way those old fellas started, he wanted to much money,he didn’t
ratware - January 16, 2012
I begged for Waters man, I was begging for that signing
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
why hate Waters
he`s much better off playing for the Patriots.
ziggy19 - January 16, 2012
i would love to see us get nicks and draft decastro. then we can be done with our o-line for at least 3 years during romo’s window. if we can’t keep romo healthy, then nothing else matters. we’ll have to get by without a great center, but you can’t have a steak on every plate.
Jericho Slim - January 16, 2012
Who would play Center?
Baked Potato Soup - January 16, 2012
Quite frankly, I'd rather get a center than a guard
Montre Holland and Kyle Kosier were adequate this year. If you give Nagy and Arkin an off-season to get better then you have some options to work with.
The gaping hole is at center. Teams attacked the A gaps with ruthless abandon and it worked all season. Costa has to go.
That being said, I really want to draft a guard too. But if I had to prioritize then the priority has to be center.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
Lumpy played very respectable
I love the fact that he took it upon himself to get in shape and get better after being cut.
But I think we let Kosier slide a little bit this year. He was pretty bad for most of the year. After rewatching a lot of the games this season he was even worse than i remembered during the games. I really don’t know if he’ll be back next season. Now, i would love to have him back in a back up role. I know his contract isn’t staggering.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
If we draft DeCastro or acquire Nicks I think we'd be set for awhile
Lumpy would be around in case Nagy or Arkin can’t perform well at G.
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
If we got Nicks and DeCastro
then Nagy and Arkin are just backups anyways.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
Rather sign Meyers at C than Nicks
Especially if we have a good shot at DeCastro at 14
Terry - January 16, 2012
hey Terry...what do you think about the Giants??
McLovin9 - January 16, 2012
I think the Niners will beat them this week
However, they are proof we’re not that far away from being legit contenders as they weren’t that much better than us this year.
Terry - January 16, 2012
still safe to say that they are a little better than the Boys though...
right?
McLovin9 - January 16, 2012
I just said that
Terry - January 16, 2012
look
nobody on here is discounting what the Giants have done and are doing
you will not see that on here
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
you think Eli is in Cabo today?
McLovin9 - January 16, 2012
yes, i just saw him
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
Considering the Giants have a game this Sunday, thats obviously a stupid question but coming from you that doesn’t surprise me
Terry - January 16, 2012
Romo played great that game
should’ve sent everyone to Cabo
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
McLovin, it was 4 damn years ago. People grow up. Romo's grown up.
So should you.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
haters gotta hate...it's in their DNA
Terry - January 16, 2012
The giants have a chqnce a real strong chance
And seriously hope this puts to rest the high flying offense is better than an elite defense theory. Cause when NY got there defensive line back health and playing good they went from having no chance to Superbowl contention. Offense is good but put your money on defense this year jj don’t listen to the hype fa a offense line and draft and build your defense or its gonna be another season of shattered dreams.
Sado44 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Also goes to show how much difference a few pays, momentum and attitude makes.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
the Giants are just better than us
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
tis true
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
Yeah, for sure.
We did control our own fate in the first game, and make the second game competitive. I truly believe it is not purely a talent issue. Our attitude compared to theirs is different. They look like Anderson Silva, where they can take your best shot. We look like Brock Lesnar, who makes eye contact with Alistair Overeem from across the cage; he drops his eyes first, then gets rocked.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
I think there is a talent issue as well
this secondary besides Jenkins, is just not kosher
this pass rush besides Ware, is not there
our OL needs guard and a center
there is some talent issues too
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Yeah,
my bad, I meant relative to the Giants, or any other team. We all have our holes. Just happens that our pass-rush hole exposes our secondary issues rather nicely…
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
Id say you had that backwards
Secondary makes our pass rush loom bad but we need d line help fast.
Sado44 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
thank you. I'm tired of people saying
“they just want it more.”
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
well in all fairness - thats an issue too....
sometimes its hard to separate the talent issue from heart/coaching….but in BIG games – your BEST players have to play their BEST games…and that just hasnt happened here since the 90’s
McLovin9 - January 16, 2012
wrong, all your players have to play their best, not just the stars
Actually thats is what is wrong with this team, the stars play consistently well but everyone else craps the bed half the time.
Terry - January 16, 2012
I would mostly agree with that statement.
Our stars except for Ware also have a tendency to crap the bed. I include Witten because he had a three year span of what appeared to be lack of focus penalties.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 19, 2012
No, it is purely a talent issue
on both lines
Terry - January 16, 2012
because the Giants have better lines on both sides of the ball
Terry - January 16, 2012
Archer today posted on ESPNDallas what I was thinking during the game yesterday...
That I hope Jerry doesn’t watch that game and think exactly what Terry said, that Dallas is close. We are not close. We can’t rush Rodgers as consistently as NYG did yesterday. Even NYG secondary stepped up, something our secondary hasn’t shown. Their defense forced multiple turnovers, something our defense hasn’t done. We are not close to the NYG, and our last game showed that. Falling behind 21-0, not scoring in the first half, and losing by 17 is not close.
selke99 - January 16, 2012
Its not as bad as it looks
Game plan was with romos hand in consideration our interior line didn’t help as for our d fix our holes and I don’t see us that far off from NY and might catch hell from this but Philly is the only team in the division that scares me when we play they have our kriptinite unless we fix our interior line.
Sado44 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
The areas where the Giants have us beat
1) Pass Rush
a) The Giants have Osi, JPP, Tuck, Coefield, Canty, Joseph.
b) The Cowboys have Ware (a diamond) surround by Ratliff and a pile of trash.
2) Secondary
a) The Giants have guys, who when healthy, can make plays on the football: Corner-Corey Webster, Aaron Ross, Will Blackmon, Prince Amukamara. Safeties (they have two decent starters)-Kenny Phillips, Antrelle Role, and backups Deion Grant, and Derrick Martin.
b) Cowboys: all we got is often banged up Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick who might be playing out of position at nickle, and Terence Newman whose ready for his AARP card. Don’t get me started on the turd sandwhich that is the safeties.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
question
I know that Jenkins Battled Injuries all year…but is that really enough to give him this"injury prone" label that has been banded about in regards to him?
AS far as I can remember this as been the only year that he has had any injury issues…..
I am Ironman!!! - January 16, 2012
He was injured in 2010
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I'm not using Jenkins' injuries as a slight against him.
I’m illustrating that our depth at the CB position is lacking. We don’t have the next man for next man up to apply.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Giants are winning the super bowl
they are the best team right now
I said they would crush the Falcons and then beat GB
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
If that happens, I really like our chances next season
Terry - January 16, 2012
well seeing as how we beat the 49ers this year already...
by that logic we should be in good shape next year either way…
you sound like Jerry
McLovin9 - January 16, 2012
If we have a good offseason, we will be in good shape
You sound like a hater, oh wait…thats right, you are.
Terry - January 16, 2012
somehow I trust JG to get the Cowboys to have a good offseason
over Wade Phillips.
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
i hope so too.....
but i couldnt help but watch the 49ers/Saints game and feel badly…..this year’s 49ers are the 2007 cowboys…same record, home playoff game with a bye, renewed enthusiasm after a long downturn….ok – they have a better defence than we had but our offence was better than theirs….but such a similar storyline…
and look at the results – tell me the difference between the 2 outcomes wasnt because of coaching and preparation…and the best players rising to the occasion
now is JG better than WP – yeah…i think so
is JG in the same zip code as Harbaugh?? i used to think so but after this past season – i’m not so sure
McLovin9 - January 16, 2012
I think the jury's still out on JG
he’s much better than Wade and has influence over Jerry in a way that Wade never did. Will he be the next Jimmy Johnson or Tom Landry? Probably not, but Harbaugh may not either.
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
the Giants DL & Eli are playing at the top of there game.
Eli is now in that Elite class (even if he stinks it up next week) & Dallas will need a DL/OLBs that can get pressure without blitzes. i’d bet they add a TE to along with that trio of WRs so Carter,Lee & Sensabaugh better have there coverage skill on par.
i think Dallas can win a super bowl by building through the draft while adding smart options in FA. letting players that dont meet exepectations walk in FA & get rid of the old players a year early instead of a year late.
DCNation73 - January 16, 2012
It would be nice if Romo had the protection Eli has had
One play I remember he had practically 10 seconds to throw the ball, it was ridiculous. If Romo had that kind of time and a good defense, he would be considered beyond elite whatever that status would be.
Terry - January 16, 2012
The Giants do a great job protecting Eli
Eli is one of the best QBs in the NFL, but yesterday was the first time I saw him get sacked in a long time
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I wouldnt
SaSay they are the best team they gotta beat the living niners and with the way the offense stepped up this weekend I say they got there hands full.
Sado44 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Hey BTBers, first post on here. Been reading all year and just decided to sign up and share my opinions as well. There is no better place for good Cowboys talk sans all the usual BSPN sensationalism. Have to agree here that Kosier seems to have gotten a bit of a free pass here. I understand that he makes a lot of the line calls and is our veteran leader on the line, but there were times when he was just flat out bad this year. Would love to see us grab Grubbs or Nicks AND Decastro to really solidify this line. I think Kowalski will take over a C and be more than adequate this year. Protection is so important and with Tony playing at such a high level and all our weapons on the outside I really think we keep the O-line transformation coming and get a dominant O-line. Ourselves might actually then get to see JG’s full play book.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Welcome to the blog
One.Cool.Customer - January 16, 2012
Thanks OCC. Love your writing. I was a journalism major in college and the posts on here are always superbly done.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
you do realize that Kosier was playing the season with plantar fasciitis right?
StrosSouth - January 16, 2012
First post and already a grammatical error. “Ourselves” is supposed to be “We might.” Damn iPhone.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Damn iPhone...
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
Damn iPhone.
Nickthegrip - January 16, 2012
Welcome and a new poster Rec'd for ya
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
New poster rec from me too
Welcome :)
Nickthegrip - January 16, 2012
Welcome!
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
Thanks guys! Glad to be a part of such a great Cowboy community.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Kosier was playing the entire year with fasciitis
wonder how much of his play is due to that and how is due to his age
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
Doesn't matter
you have to figure injury into his play. Elite players get hurt all the time but still produce at higher than average levels…
Tyrone Jenkins - January 16, 2012
Do you even know what plantar fasciitis is? and how much it hurts for someone
who is say 180 lbs? Now imagine a 300+ lb guy playing all season with plantar fasciitis. Kosier is one hell of a warrior and and has one hell of a level of pain tolerance.
StrosSouth - January 17, 2012
The pain actually levels off after a bit.
But it kills you for the first few minutes after you have been sitting down for awhile, like 10-15 minutes or so. It is hard to walk for a few minutes.
And of course during a game he is up on the field, then sits for a series, then up. So it is constantly irritated and hurting like heck.
I know, I had it a year ago.
Rena - January 18, 2012
Welcome
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I think it would take more than a year for Nagy and Arkin.
I hope that I’m wrong, but Nagy was even worse than Costa when he was on the field, and they did everything possible to keep Arkin from suiting up.
Callahan and Woicik are supposed to be very, very good, but they might need to be magicians.
Baked Potato Soup - January 16, 2012
Very true BPS.
If people reread the post OCC says there isn’t any real change normally from year 1 to year 2. Year 3 you see it going up.
Rena - January 16, 2012
Costa at Center didnt work well but i believe Costa has a chance to be a solid Guard.
who knows with an offseason with the strength coach & the new OC they might be able to fix some problems he had. Costa kinda was thrown in the fire & i doubt even he thought Gurode was going to see the turk.
but i agree having a Center that does his job well is a must have for any OL.
DCNation73 - January 16, 2012
yeah, we need to sign a center in FA
Terry - January 16, 2012
Sorry, I've been out of touch.
Any word yet if Callahan is assuming play calling responsibilities?
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
Garrett is going to keep play calls
but the benefit of Callahan in that title is that he can bounce ideas off Garrett and do a lot of the prep work throughout the week
really underrated signing
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Cool. Thanks Chiaman.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
no doubt
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I wonder if they'll play call by committee
with JG just having ultimate say. I like JG but he’s a little weak at play calling in certain situations.
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
not happening, this is still Garrett's offense
Callahan is OC in name only
Terry - January 16, 2012
Hopefully help with time management and timeouts.
selke99 - January 16, 2012
I think a good guard can make up for an ok center.
Not to say that center is not important, but if I recall correctly, Stepnoski was kind of a product of his brains and guards. Plus a little hemp before the game never hurts.
GunsUp - January 16, 2012
you need a decent center
I wouldnt even consider Costa decent
30th rated center out of 32 is awful
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I don't think you can get by with a sucktacular center.
But Costa can’t make up for Kosier having a bad game. Plus if Kosier is having a bad game, Costa is going to have a really bad game. My guards in H.S. made me an all district center my senior year. I just had to plug the middle, and stay between the ball and the NG/LB.
GunsUp - January 16, 2012
actually it's the other way around
Terry - January 16, 2012
it can work both ways
line play is all related to one another
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
no, every good OL has a good center
Terry - January 16, 2012
+1
cmttx - January 16, 2012
Killer K?
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
+1
Cowboys_Attack - January 16, 2012
A belated welcome to the blog, Slim
Now let’s see if we get enough people together to make this comment green.
One.Cool.Customer - January 17, 2012
I tossed one in for you.
Rena - January 17, 2012
If you post a comment on an old thread and nobody reads it, is the comment even there?
One.Cool.Customer - January 17, 2012
But I read it!
Or am I nobody to? :P
Rena - January 17, 2012
done and Greened
Welcome to the Blog Slim…and I apologize for not seeing this earlier
I am Ironman!!! - January 18, 2012
Giants line protected She Li well
he had 3-4 seconds in many cases to look for an open receiver.
combine that protection with good route running and you can see how they keep the
chains moving, and get a chance for deep balls
oldtimer - January 16, 2012
Yeah, the Giants fans keep claiming that Dumb Face has a bad line. They have looked
great in every game I’ve watched.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
If Giants OL is bad, then the DL they have been facing really suck bad
Terry - January 16, 2012
Huh?
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
he's saying if that's a bad line then every team must have a horrible
dline because that oline has been superb. The knock on that line was it couldn’t break open holes for the run game but they have been stellar in pass protection
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
Got it. Thanks.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
I think that OL is pretty good
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
They are. Giants fans just want us to believe that Dumb Face can win all by himself.
I call BS on that. His D is playing lights out, and that O line is giving him plenty of protection.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
but Eli is making plays
he is getting protection but he is pin point accurate
he is stepping up and avoiding pressure too, one of the best in the NFL at doing it
Eli is elite, for me that conversation has ended
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
we'll see how accurate he is this Sunday against a good defense
Terry - January 16, 2012
Can't spend elite without Eli. I've come around on Eli since last year.
The guy might actually be better than his brother when it comes to road games, and having to rally a team back from a deficit late in games.
He’s a freaking assassin. If I think back to his first game against Dallas in 2004, he showed a nack for clutch play. He rallied the Gmen to beat us in 2007 playoffs, 2009 home opener, the December 2009 game, the MNF game after Romo got hurt he just put his foot on the gas, and then again broke our spirits in both games this year.
I bow down to Eli, like Wayne and Garth from Wayne’s World, “I’m not worth Mr. Manning, please forgive me for calling you dumbface, and please forgive me for saying Cooper was a better Manning than you.”
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
spend should be spell*
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
yup
I would take Eli in his prime over Peyton in his prime
yup, I said it
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I would too
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
No thanks,
Peyton in his prime….Eli right now, but Peyton in his prime
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
WE BELIEVE IN ELI!!
dcsince77 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Funny, since he wasn't "lifting" his team until the D started playing at an elite
level. He sucked against the Jets and the Redskins, and it was the D that saved his hide. Just sayin’.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
I won't always be pretty with Eli.
But in the second half, and 4th Quarter, this guy just takes it up another level. Sorry to sound like Jon Gruden, but he does. The stats reflect this.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Sorry, but I'm not on board. Let his D fall apart and his O line fail him
against SF. If he “forces” his team to win anyway, then I’ll agree with you.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
Eli does help also. He processes things very quickly.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
they've been much better since the start of December
and lets not give the Giants line too much credit – the Packers were last in the league in sack rate.
foyesboys - January 16, 2012
I've watched more than the Packers game. The Giants O line is pretty damned good.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
I could be wrong but...
It looked to me that GB sent 3guys a lot.
selke99 - January 16, 2012
More and more
im starting to lean towards building your team to win your division. I have been fine with the idea of drafting an olineman at 14 but now even more so. After watching what the Giants dline has done to us and to others in the postseason, then remembering what the Eagles dline did to us, we just absolutely have to shore up the oline if we want to have a chance at all. If we can’t keep our qb upright then we stand no chance of winning our own division which is the best way to the playoffs.
I also understand that we have to have a good enough defense to be able to slow down the Giants and Eagles passing attack. So its kind of a catch 22. But in our division, against the Giants and Eagles, if we can’t protect our qb it doesn’t matter how good our defense is. We have the weapons to put up serious points if we can just keep Tony clean.And we must do this to compete within our own division.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
yep
if they are the BPAs, i’d like to see a draft heavy on interior linemen on both sides of the ball. stabilize our pocket and wreak havoc on the opposing team’s pocket.
Lajitas Lava - January 16, 2012
i was thinking the exact same thing while watching the games. you have to attack the quarterback and protect your quarterback. it really is a very simple game.
yesterday, the first 3 times eli got pressured he threw 2 incompletions and a pick. other than that, he was picking green bay apart.
drew brees had a clean pocket last week, and carved detroit up. yesterday, he still played well, but threw 2 picks because of all the pressure.
we need to keep tony clean – if he gets hurt, then nothing else matters. get nicks and decastro to sure up the line.
we know the giants will draft a pass rusher every year. we know that philly will always look to put major heat on the quarterback. the skins have kerrigan and orakpo for the next decade. we have to draft and build a team that can stand up in the trenches, or else we always have to hope that tony can scramble and make something out of nothing.
that’s the recipe for mediocrity
Jericho Slim - January 16, 2012
i always thought you build to win your division & the rest takes care of itself.
our OL is way better then the DL & if Dallas cant get enough pressure with 4 players then Eli is going to pick them apart. the Giants have a better trio of WRs, DL & most would say QB compared to Dallas. selecting 1 OG in this draft wont slow Tuck, Canty, JPP, Osi & the rest of mob that beats 90% of the OL.
IMO the only way Dallas will beat the Giants or Eagles is match there pass rush or it just going to be the dog chasing the tail trick.
DCNation73 - January 16, 2012
not true, I'd take our skilled player over Giants any day
They have a better OL and defense, thats it.
Terry - January 16, 2012
you’re right dcnation- we have to attack their quarterback.
but our oline isn’t good enough to win consistently – even against average pass-rushing teams.
so we have to do both. in my opinion you can fix the o line for good this off season and be done with it for years. you can sign maybe the best guard in the league at age 26, and pick another stud guard. then you’ve got 4 of 5 spots filled with great, young starters for years to come. and you protect your most valuable asset – who’s getting older. that keeps the super bowl window open for longer.
then from round 2 on, you concentrate on defense. you can also sign some other free agents on defense if you like.
Jericho Slim - January 16, 2012
I agree TP
We can’t go 0-4 against them and have much of a chance to win the division. Also the Ravens and Steelers will be all over Romo next year if the line does not get a lot better.
cowboy1966 - January 16, 2012
ouch, didn't even consider the Ravens and the Steelers next year
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
yes Paul...2008 all over again...
McLovin9 - January 16, 2012
Jimmy Johnson did that, and it worked out pretty well for him.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
It's interesting that most linemen are below average per PFF.
It looks like over the last 2 years, they feel that overall Guard and Tackle play in the NFL has been poor.
Baked Potato Soup - January 16, 2012
The numbers are normalized, though
So I don’t see how that could be represented. What led to your conclusion?
CotySaxman - January 16, 2012 via mobile
When are they normalized?
I looked at how many guys were in the red in 2007 to 2009 vs how many were in the red in 2010 and 2011. In the earlier years, more guys were not in the red, and in the latter 2 years, more than half the guys were.
Baked Potato Soup - January 17, 2012
better pass rushers & more teams attacking those positions.
DCNation73 - January 16, 2012
PFF takes a lot away for penalties and such
so one penalty can negate a whole game’s worth of good play
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
YEAH THAT IS CRAZY
unless the penalty is a bad one in that it has real effects, they are not that important unless you have a bunch
burmafrd1944 - January 16, 2012
Tyron Smith is an absolute beast!
Our scouting department did an amazing job getting him. I thought he had all kinds of red flags that scared me, but they nailed it.
And to think this guy is only 21. He realistically could be a Cowboys tackle for another 12 years. He’s on track to be the best Cowboys 1st round draft pick since Ware.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
Unfortunately, that's not saying much.
I agree that he looks like the real deal, but best 1st rounder since Ware is not exactly high achievement, unfortunately.
Baked Potato Soup - January 16, 2012
haha fair enough
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
what? Hellllllllloooooooooooooo..................Bobby Carpenter people!!!!
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
+1
LOLOL thanks!
Cowboys_Attack - January 16, 2012
bc Ware wasn't a good 1st round pick? I would say that's a great compliment.
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
Agreed
They hit a homerun with Smith! I think we should draft Decastro. He starts immediately and we could still have guys like Nagy, Arkin, Killer K, Holland for depth. All the rest of the money and picks should go to the D!
I Bleed Blue and Silver - January 16, 2012 via mobile
so many different ways to go its already driving me crazy.
I guess the smartest thing to do is just as you suggest. Draft DeCastro who could be even better than Nicks and also cost A LOT less and then spend the heck out of some cash in free agency on defense. My only problem with that is that all the free agent db’s will be 30 in a couple of years. But you have to do something. I feel more comfortable with a rookie guard like decastro than i would with a rookie db. Especailly since i think theres not a chance in hell that Claiborne or Kirkpatrick will be there at 14.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
Three to four year deals
Three to four year deals for dbs. They age quickly as we have seen with TNew. We dont want to get stuck with dead weight.
I Bleed Blue and Silver - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Am favoring finishing the OL myself w #14 pick
But at this point, with so many needs any stud on either line or in the Defensive backfield is going to be an improvement
tdships - January 16, 2012
I want Kirpatrick with our 1st if he's available
I think we can take someone like Zeitler in the 3rd who will do a good enough job for us at G. Moffit did good for the Seahawks last year and he grades out the same as Moffit. With a FA center, I think we can roll with him and another one of our guards and we’ll be alright
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
hard to square with the PFF grade
Fan in Thick and Thin - January 16, 2012
You're seriously quoting Wikipedia at me?
I’m offended.
7: Who cares what Peter King has to say?
8: Spencer Larsen also won ROW that year. And Felix Jones won it three times. So what does that award tell us?
9. Clady got two votes. Two.
10. In 2008, Clady played in what was arguably one of the best O-lines that year. Advanced NFL stats ranked the line 2nd in the league in WPA, FO ranked them the NO: 1 run blocking team and the No. 4 pass blocking team. Yet in that same season, Clady gave up 37 QB pressures. No other tackle in the league gave up more. No rookie, no veteran, nobody.
11. Good for him. Nobody is denying that Clady is a good player. And not giving up any sacks is impressive and is sure to have swayed the volume stat loving voters at the AP. But sometimes it’s worth digging a little deeper.
One.Cool.Customer - January 16, 2012
ya. do you think there’s anything in that entry that’s wrong? that’s consistent with how I remember Clady’s rookie year.
i also remember that before Clady hurt his knee most scouting services had Joe Thomas / Clady as the 1&2 LTs in the NFL.
Fan in Thick and Thin - January 16, 2012
i’ll add, its not credible to me when someone claims Clady didn’t have a monster rookie season. you might as well say 2+2 = 23. It was pretty unanimous that Clady was awesome.
here’s the all-pro voting
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3821666
you can write ‘dig a little deeper’ but it’s like when PFF grade Bennett higher than Witten. I don’t need to dig deeper
I know Witten’s better. I know Clady had a monster rookie season.
Fan in Thick and Thin - January 16, 2012
Quoting Peter King on anything other than his preferred hotels and the Acela Quiet Car calls your judgment in to question
Seanrude - January 16, 2012
I like Peter King because of his contacts and knowledge of the game
but I hate reading him or watching him because he is always doing something corny, but the guy knows his stuff
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
try listening to him. They guy struggles to talk. I have to turn him off.
He sounds like he has a pineapple up his rear end.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
lol I know
I just give him credit because he is knowledgeable
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Only when he says good things about the Boys.
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
well this is Mike Mayock time for me
I could listen to him talk all day long about the draft
the guy is amazing
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I enjoy Mayock as well
much easier to listen to than Kiper or McShay. Kiper is just too in your face for me.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
Kiper used to get paid by agents to hype guys bro
McShay actually played football and runs Scouts Inc
McShay is pretty good too, he keeps it real
but mayock is the best
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
i remember hearing rumors
about Kiper and Jimmy Clausen
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
wouldnt shock me
there was a rumor he got paid by agents to hype guys in the draft
2 guys that stick out were Terrell Suggs and Marcus Spears
he was friends with their agents and I remember Kiper hyping the crap out of them in the draft
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
The rumors were centered around Kiper and agents Gary Wichard and his partner John Blake.
There is no doubt that Mel and Gary were/are close friends. There were alegations that Mel helped recruit players and hype Wichards clients in the draft. For those that may remeber agent Josh Luchs, he was employed by Wichard’s firm before being outsted by the NFL and NCAA for paying college players and other recruiting agent violations.
Birddog26 - January 16, 2012
Like.....make out rumors?
What kinda rumors, Paul?
Nickthegrip - January 16, 2012
yes, they were seen making out under the bleachers at a sockhop after the game
Just the kind of rumors that Chias talking about. Apparently he was hyping the crap out of Clausen and word got out that he was in somebodys pocket to do it.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
that agent 30 for 30 movie was saying that Kiper was paid by agents to hype players
one guy was Willie Young on NC State
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
McShay is legit. I like how he and Kiper get into it.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Mayock is the best in the biz....no question about it
Terry - January 16, 2012
Mayock and McShay are my favorites
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
LOL! I'd say he sounds like he's having a pretty good day for having a pineapple up his rear end
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
I struggle to read or listen to Peter King, sort of.
He’s always saying things are weird, maybe. He’s always hedging what he says, I think. And he’s always talking down to his readers like they’re idiots and he’s the one that knows it all, probably.
Fact is Peter is well plugged in, so the nuggets he provides are interesting. His views on baseball, the office, and pop cluture, I could do without.
It is funny how he will rate Starbucks in different cities to each other and then hold them up against the standard of Pete’s Coffee, which you can’t get every where.
I can’t stand how complains about his travel schedule when he travels in luxury, the Acela for crying out loud!
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
No, he does not know his stuff. He does not squat. He writes about personalities, not Xs and Os
A for his contacts, he has Brett Favre on speed dial. That’s it. If his contacts are so great, the guy would be breaking stories. Instead, his contacts use him to plant BS in the press.
Try this: find a major story that Peter King, with all of his contacts, all of his experience, find a major story that Peter King broke. Find a major story that Peter King reported first. (Important Note: PK quoting Adm Schefter’s Twitter feed does not count as breaking a story).
It is a trick question. You cannot do it, because the guy does no reporting.
Seanrude - January 16, 2012
Some people like reading folksy sports writers
and listening to folksy sports broadcasters.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Agree, he's witty, but doesn't know much about football
and I think he’d admit that. I’ll give him credit though for doing a good job of NOT putting his foot in his mouth. He’s rarely outright wrong about things. He’s smart enough to skirt the real issues with his folksy banter.
Silverblue - January 16, 2012
WITTY? What are you talking about? Do you have any examples of this wit?
Seanrude - January 16, 2012
I haven't listened to Sirius in a while,
but found him somewhat entertaining. Problem is, I don’t listen for entertainment, but to hear about football. When I say witty, I don’t mean about football. Sorry, but I don’t take notes. BTW, I too am a lifelong Boys fan currently in NJ.
Silverblue - January 17, 2012
get em
kitten mittens - January 16, 2012 via Android app
What is your honest opinion of Tyron Smith?
Lets say JJ Watt had been taken at #9 . Who would you have wanted the Cowboys to have taken?
Jonathan Stern - January 16, 2012
I also don't trust PFF all that much
I know a lot of guys on this site love PFF though, to each their own
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
As long as they're consistent
I think they provide an invaluable resource. And grading an individual lineman is no easy task either. So until I see a better alternative, at least I’m grateful someone is putting in that kind of effort.
accidental innuendo - January 16, 2012
Average is a comparison stat.
In a class with all A’s the lowest A would be below average and in a class with all F’s the highest F would still be a failure. Perhaps OCC needs a disclaimer “these numbers are for comparison purposes only and do not reflect the player’s performance quality.”
50yrcowboy - January 16, 2012
Just to point something out OCC
not sure if it was intentional or not, but you left off Mike Pollak on your Guard/Center Table….
And I am Glad you brought this out again, as I want to point something out to Everyone:
as a 2nd year UDFA, Costa ended up with a Final season Grade of -9.3, If I remember correctly….the average grade of all these 1st and 2nd round rookies was -5.0….in other words on a per game basis a rookie c/g drafted that high obtained a score of -0.3….Costa clocked in at a -0.5…..just saying
I am Ironman!!! - January 16, 2012
I only included first rounders in the G/C table.
One.Cool.Customer - January 16, 2012
So Costa is twice as bad as the average rookie?
-5.0 vs. -9.3 and the 29th best center in the league by PFF?
That tells me he’s really really bad.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012 via mobile
bear in mind BED
that is compared to 1st and second rounders….guys who are supposed to be fairly NFL ready….
I am Ironman!!! - January 16, 2012
anway you slice it, Kosta is terrible
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
LOL
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Can we please get a Guard and Center in this draft?
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
and
a couple of corners, FS, SS, OLB, DE (2), NT, ILB, QB to groom, did i leave anything out ?
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
I think Costa made up for some bad plays... Kosier just looked like he was worse
scraig - January 16, 2012
but they have a funny video of all of costa's bad plays
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
Compilation bodies > actual performance
CotySaxman - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Videos...
CotySaxman - January 16, 2012 via mobile
of singled out plays
i could make a video with just as many good plays. But im not smart enough to know how to make those videos. No doubt Costa struggled and an upgrade is needed.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
obviously Costa didn't have too many good plays this year
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I actually thought of that video during the Niners/Saints game.
There was a play in which Nicks got turned around, and his man went by him to assist on a jailbreak sack. I thought to myself “That’d be in the Costa highlight video”.
You can pick lots of plays on anyone in the NFL looking pretty bad, and make a compilation.
Nickthegrip - January 16, 2012
yeah but Carl Nicks is an All Pro guard, Phil Costa is one of the worst centers in the NFL
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Does it have the benny hill soundtrack?
saidseven - January 16, 2012
keystone cops
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
both soundtracks are equally hiliarious
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Wondering what could have been if we draft Watt over Smith.
DCyanks21 - January 16, 2012
Romo in a body cast?
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
+9
His 3-4 year window rapidly shortening
pfloyd1 - January 16, 2012
I don't know how you'd compare
We got the best o lineman in the draft. Not like we whiffed on the pick.
In any given draft, there are multiple guys that are going to end up being great. Can’t have them all. The problem isn’t so much that we didn’t take Watt, it’s that we let both the o line AND d line get into a sorry state, meaning we couldn’t fix both in one draft (or even two drafts, most likely).
AikmanGeneration - January 16, 2012
Not saying anything wrong with Tron.
I love Tron. Just saying I like Watt too.
DCyanks21 - January 16, 2012
couldn't go wrong with either
Trueblue122 - January 16, 2012
According to the PFF folks, quite a lot
Watt graded out with a +28.7, which is awfully good.
Top first-rounders:
Von Miller (53.0!!)
Aldon Smith (36.4)
Watt
T. Smith
So, Smith receives highest offensive grade for first rounders
rabblerousr - January 16, 2012
all 4 players that I was really high on too
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I remember.
I think those guys along with Patrick Peterson were your favorite guys for the Cowboys
Jonathan Stern - January 16, 2012
yeah easily
I liked Prince too, but I was clearly wrong about him
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
give it time
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
I am
I still think Prince will pan out, which sucks
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Tron was a much better pick no matter what Prince does.
pfloyd1 - January 16, 2012
yeah I agree
especially considering he might become the LT
the problem again I have is ignoring an area
this time its the secondary
we haven’t drafted a CB high since 2008
meanwhile the Giants have 3 first rounders, and a couple of 2nd rounders
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Chia, if it wasn't for your draft articles and some other posters talking sense
I’d still be clinging to my stance that we should take Costanzo. Thanks for your work.
Smith was a beast this year.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
+ Me
BigBad Joe - January 16, 2012
Tron is a beast
that is all
Trueblue122 - January 16, 2012
There is going to be a lot of good guards in the second
rather get Janoris Jenkins. I really think he moved past his character issues. His interviews are going to be key.
Lissyyyyy - January 16, 2012
his interviews are going to go well bc his agent runs everything by him 500 times in advance.
talent wise J.Jenkins is out of this world & has the best cover skills out of all the CBs but unfortunatley his head is closer to Pac Man Jones. Dallas is already dealing with Dez & i just cant see them getting another mental project.
DCNation73 - January 16, 2012
You don't think he'll be there in the 2nd?
I mean, with the issues he’s had and the deep CB class, I don’t think it’s crazy to imagine him being there in the 2nd round.
BrickTop - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I'm hoping for exactly that. Great value pick if he's there.
pfloyd1 - January 16, 2012
OCC, can you tell me how rookie linemen perform over the course of their first season?
I kept waiting to see Tyron hit the “rookie wall” in 2011; instead, I came away very impressed that he kept plugging away and looked to have finished the season strong.
I’m hoping that bodes very well for his career.
accidental innuendo - January 16, 2012
Tyron did hit a wall, and that wall was green.
Smith had only two below average games with a grade below -1.0, and both came against the Eagles (-1.3 and -6.4). Excluding those two games, Smith would have graded out at +21.4, but that’s not how these things work.
As for the season performance, there is no pattern for rookies. Some struggle at the beginning, some struggle at the end, some against specific opponents. No pattern.
One.Cool.Customer - January 16, 2012
Thank you
accidental innuendo - January 16, 2012
I think we need a # 1 CB
Unless we sign or trade for a starting CB I think we need a CB in the 1st. What are the chances of Morris Claiborne or Dre Kirkpatrick being available at 14.
FYI, … the second corner was taken 19th last year, 20th in 2010, 25th in 2009 & 20th in 2008.
One of those 2 player would appear to be good value for us at 14.
eightball - January 16, 2012
Claiborne is gone by the 5th pick & Kirkpatrick i think is still on the board at 14.
6’3 CBs generally arent as fluid in the hips & covering shifty, speedy recievers could cause problems imo. i like Kirkpatrick but i want to see him at the combine to see just how nimble he is
DCNation73 - January 16, 2012
Lisssey has the right #1 CB but he's a huge risk from the neck up.
some team will take a shot on him in the 1st round & probably earlier then mocks expect bc he’s so talented but you cant get hige stupid in the NFL like college
DCNation73 - January 16, 2012
Kirkpatrick will only be at 14 if does not put up decent numbers at his pro day and combine
Trueblue122 - January 16, 2012
I don’t think there’s any chance of kirkpatrick being there at 14. A 6’3" corner who can cover? Come on, guys – you know that ain’t gonna happen
Jericho Slim - January 16, 2012
hopefully history repeats itself
eightball - January 16, 2012
Tyron Smith is better now than D'Brickashaw Ferguson was as a rookie
Jonathan Stern - January 16, 2012
that was the player I compared Tyron too last year
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I think that if we learned anything from the Giants (pains me to say) it is that a dominant front four can make up for a poorer secondary. Strengthen our O and D-lines and I think we would see a MUCH different team.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
well for me its that they are not really blitzing
they generate pressure with their front 4 and drop back into coverage, then they start bringing a 5th guy later in the game
after watching playoff games this weekend a couple things stood out to me
1-offensive line-good pockets
2-pass rush-front 4
3-safety play is amazing on some of these teams
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I heard your boy Dez got his tit in the wringer in Fla.
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
huh?
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Reports are he got arrested at a bar.
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
just googled it
altercation in a Miami club
I wish he would stop doing the club thing
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Doing the club thing is ok, just don't be an a**hole when you're there
Terry - January 16, 2012
Remember what Parcells said about night clubs?
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
Parcells didn't say anything about nightclubs
He said nothing good happens after 1am and that is basically true but there isn’t any reason you can’t leave a club at midnight either
Terry - January 16, 2012
He said the troubles begin at nightclubs.
He had a whole spiel on ESPN about it.
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
There is no reports.
There is no evidence or anything haha. The article basically says “someone said he was in a fight and got arrested, but we have no details” sketchy at best.
BrickTop - January 16, 2012 via mobile
its sketchy
but something happened
Dez is my favorite player, and I really want to see him breakout like Hakeem Nicks
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Possibly................hahahahahaha
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2012/01/source-dez-bryant-gets-into-physical-altercation-at-club-play-in-miami/
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
thats the link i got in the google search
sounds like a awesome website
lol
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
yea really
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
lmfao it had a mughsot/arrest link on the top
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
i saw that
and notice they didn’t have one for dez. But they tried there best to make the pic of him look like it.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
lol that pic was from first take I think
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
he needs to get outta the clubs though
he really does
its just going to lead to something bad
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
i agree
ive never understood why these guys feel the need to go to clubs. They have to know they’re targets. I get being young and dumb and full of you know what but these guys make enough cash to bring the party to them.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
yeah
I understand wanting to go out, im young im 27 I get it
but at some point, it ends up to be trouble
like you said, you are a target
I want Dez to succeed, I really do
dude is my favorite player of all time and all this will bring is more stuff about Dez being this or Dez being that
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Are you kidding me?
Pssst…. THEY WANT TO GET LAID.
That is all.
Nickthegrip - January 16, 2012
Shouldn't think anything of it unless a legit source comes up. With actual evidence.
BrickTop - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I mean this in the nicest possible way
but you should not believe everything that pops up on Bleacher Report.
One.Cool.Customer - January 16, 2012
lol
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I said report not fact, it's out there so I brought it up.
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
You do know about smoke and fire?
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
glad you did
now im just waiting on espn and nfln to go absolutely nuts.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
just what I needed this week right
damn Dez come on son
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I wouldn't worry to much, if there is anything to it,
it’s only a altercation
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
I am not worried
its more of disappointment
when your favorite player is out in the club getting into trouble it bothers me
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Lol, it'll take the heat off GB.
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
true
Ive been saying for a while the Giants would beat them too
wish I bet on that game
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
It will be
breaking news across the bottom line at the bottom of the screen.
Headline: "Dez Bryant of the Dallas Cowboys possibly got in a fight and was possibly arrested. The source also says he possibly got sued again for some possible jewls and a possible new car. He also was seen playing spaides and says he has 6 books and a possible.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
lol 6 books and a possible
@Tonekupone - January 16, 2012
LOL
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
i love spaides.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
I never played
but I just got Words With Friends!
awesome game!
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
what the heck is that?
Ive heard a few people talk about it recently. Spaides is an old school card game. I love it. I used to get some friends over and literally play all night long sittin around a table drinkin beer and smokin cigs. It looked liked something straight out of a movie. You know the scene where somebody walks into a basement and the room is full of smoke and loud music
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
lol yup
that sounds like our old poker games, cig smoke, some other “mystery” smoke and beer
spades I just never got into it
Words With Friends is scrabble but you play against a friend on the phone/computer/tablet
you should get it, its addicting
my screen name is chiacrack if you ever wanna play
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
sounds fun
but my phone is paid for by my work and its just a VERY basic phone. It does have access to the web but thats about it.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
damn you Paul, damn you
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
lol....what?
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
idk just messing around
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I mean it in the worst way; the Bleacher Report sucks.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
bleacjer report is living in mom's basement level of journalism
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
LOL, agreed.
Fernie67 - January 16, 2012
he wasn't arrested. move along, there's nothing to see here.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
That's what I heard, if it's a cowboy it's news, and especially when it's Dez.
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
Completely agree with you on safety play. When was the last time we saw our free safety come across the field on a long ball and intercept it? Literally can’t remember.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
never had one
not only the INT’s but look at all the tackles, pressures and forced fumbles the safeties had this weekend
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Is there a ball hawking safety like that worthy of 14? I don’t see one, but my knowledge on college defensive backs isn’t good and I know the draft is your area of expertise.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
unfortunately no there isnt man
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
We just have so many holes to fill. I also learned this weekend that our coaches may not have been the real problem but rather an overestimation of the current talent on our roster. We just don’t have the caliber of players on defense especially to win a championship. No way we hold GB to 20 points (basically held them to 13 before the garbage time TD).
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
not gonna lie to you
last night I was really depressed about our future after watching the Giants play
maybe it was the cookies i ate
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Even more depressing was that BOTH the 49ers safeties were available to us AND Rogers. So we’re Manning and Joseph on Houston. But we got Abe and Sensabaugh. Great talent evaluation haha
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Were* another auto correct fail.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
nobody wanted Donte Whitner on here and I mean nobody
Whitner was a great college player who was just on a bad Buffalo team
look at what happens when a guy goes to the right system
I really liked Dashon Goldson, I wanted him and Abe Elam together, not Sensabaugh with Elam
Goldson is a true FS, Sens is a SS, Elam is a SS
we dont have a true FS on the entire roster
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Good things can happen when you actually use good resources on safety.
Like drafting one and signing a good one.. Rolle and Phillips were ballin yesterday. Yet Jerry signs crap like Sensi and at the last minute , Elam. It ain’t hard.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
I really wanted Rolle that year
dude is a leader and just makes plays
versatile guy too, can line up on WR’s and TE’s, was a CB at Miami
Kenny Phillips was the guy I wanted with our 2nd pick in 2008, I like Mike Jenkins, but safety is a huge hole to this day
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I truly believe these weak safety classes have hindered us too
if there had been a safety I think the Cowboys would have pounced a while ago
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
He may have just been out of our price range, but I’m really surprised we didn’t make at least a decent push for Joseph. He’s had a great year.
And I believe it was Whitner who got burned by none other than Jesse Holley when the Cowboys went in and beat the now NFC championship game bound 49ers with a QB playing with a punctured lung and broken ribs and no Dez Bryant…sigh
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Joseph would have been the guy I went after
he is younger
I hope they pursue a CB, Ladrius Webb is a guy I like that is under the radar a little
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
+21.
And he could help in the return game.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I have just liked his game the past few years
he reminds me A LOT of Mike Jenkins
its like his clone
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Two corners with dreads? I’m into it.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
lol how about Janoris and Mike Jenkins?
both have dreads, both are Jenkins
that would be cool
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I mean if smoking weed is his only issue and his talent is as much as everyone says, I say absolutely.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
lol
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Smoking weed and fighting and being a prima donna entitled A-hole
Appear to be his only flaws. But hey – lets give that guy a ton of money and see how he behaves!
Nickthegrip - January 16, 2012
makes sense to me
sounds like a plan
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
Like a lab expiriment.
Nickthegrip - January 16, 2012
Agreed about Goldson
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I agree
I still think we have a long way to go.
@Tonekupone - January 16, 2012
Best bet would be to sign Griffin from Titans..Sign Nicks only 26 entering his prime
and then draft the best defensive player on the board..Like i said previously love Mercilus..but i dont think he will be there at 14 after he tests at combine
jp32 - January 16, 2012
we cant afford both of them
I would rather get Griffin, we need that guy
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
If they were going to make a play for asomaugh they can afford both.
Solves 2 problems..Keep watchin Mercilus hes going to pass upshaw
jp32 - January 16, 2012
yeah that was one big contract
this will be 2 BIG contracts
no way we can afford to pay Nicks 50 million and Griffin whatever top safeties make
I wish it was true but its not
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Money will be almost identical..2 for 1
jp32 - January 16, 2012
I dont think so my dude
Nnamdi was offered what, 11 million last year?
Nicks and Griffin might push that number we have in cap space
i just dont see how it can be done
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Thought Nam got 14
jp32 - January 16, 2012
we offered 11 or 12
we didnt offer him 14, remember the Eagles swooped in and drove up the price at the last minute
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Got it..
Where do you have Mercilus on your board or do i have to wait till u post it lol
jp32 - January 16, 2012
I am not high on him
I have him at 44 right now
I just dont see the speed at all, reminds me of another Spencer
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
So his nickname will be
NOT SO MERCILUS.lol
jp32 - January 16, 2012
lol
I like the kid, but I just dont see the speed and that doesnt warrant a first round grade from me
cool name though
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
for comparison sake
I have Bruce Irvin 30 and Chandler Jones 31
I think Mercilus is a great draft pick in the 2nd round, just not in the high first
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Irvin i dont like at all..not enough strength
Comes off very soft to me..
jp32 - January 16, 2012
maybe
but I like his speed
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
situational pass rusher then?
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
I think Irvin is a legit starter
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I really like Bruce Irvin
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I really like Bruce Irvin
Want to see more tape on him. If anyone has more full-game tape hook a brother up!
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
Yeah,
my bad, I meant relative to the Giants, or any other team. We all have our holes. Just happens that our pass-rush hole exposes our secondary issues rather nicely…
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
Dude, that was in response to a different post.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
I know dude, all good
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Getting Nicks though would allow us to get Brockers.
We need some disruption on the d line. We have zilch on the d line.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
I agree
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Not a fan of Brockers
The guy is leaving after his sophmore yr because of a $ grab. Scouts told him he’s not a lock to go in the first rd, and his own coach said he should come back to improve his draft stock.
If we take a guy in the first, he better not be a project guy.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
LOVE Griffin
hope we go after him hard. Rather get him than Nicks honestly since guard will be easier to fill in the draft
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
I agree
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Mark Barron could do that
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Ditto
thats why i cant take a guard at 14 if there is a defensive impact player available.Falling in love with Mercilus.Has plenty of strength just hope he times well at combine(10 yd stuff)
jp32 - January 16, 2012
And if Tyron keeps progressing at this pace, he will become the best pick we’ve made in the draft since D Ware. Still blows my mind that the kid just turned 21.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
true
the kid is going to be a stud for a long time
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Carl Nicks
Picking up his old coach and having the cash will put us in a good place to go after him. If we get Nicks I then so BPA.
Kevin Templar - January 16, 2012
say*
Kevin Templar - January 16, 2012
This year's Watt will be Michael Brockers.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
I am doing my homework on Brockers and really like what I am reading and seeing
right now Brockers is #11 on my board, which comes out later today or tonight depending on when I finish and get the html code back from OCC
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I really like Brockers too.
pfloyd1 - January 16, 2012
yeah he is a beast
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I haven't seen any tape on him
sounds like I should
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
So does anyone want Dom Capers now?
@Tonekupone - January 16, 2012
yes
if we got Dom Capers a few years ago things would be a lot different
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
It was heartbreaking watching all the teams this weekend. We are so far away compared to the teams that played this weekend.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
I would disagree, respectfully.
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
I think we are close, but far at the same time
mixed feelings right now
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Out defense is an embarrassment compared to what we saw
Still 2 years away. And we are all hoping ware Ratliff Witten and romo don’t get old.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012 via mobile
texans defense did a complete 180 in one off season
so at least theres hope.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
with Wade????
Jerry should have kept him for Def Co-ord.
ziggy19 - January 17, 2012
watching the TEs over the weekend made me consider adding an athletic tight end that can actually catch the ball
Jimmy Graham reminds me a lot of a young Jason Witten
not very fast but strong and great route runner
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Witten was never that athletic
Terry - January 16, 2012
I have watched Graham since college
he doesn’t seem overly athletic to me
he really isn’t that fast, he is just so big and runs great routes plus he has great hands
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
If he's a former basketball player, he's athletic.
I don’t think Witten could make that TD catch that Graham had at the end of the game.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Which TE do you like? The kid from Louisiana Lafeyette or Temple?
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
yep
Honestly I don’t think we are that far away. We have some younger pieces that are decent rushers – Hatcher, Lissemore and Butler. The problem is we have 1 elite rusher, 1 decent rusher in Spencer, and then theres a steep drop off.
Add in Campbell (maybe a pipe dream, I don’t know) and you have now 3 legit rushers + whatever you want to call Ratliff and some solid role players that can get to the qb. I think that actually may suffice.
Secondary is an issue of course, and we are going to need to immediately upgrade Newman’s position.But we finally have cap room this year so that can be done through the FA need be.
But you’re right in that this may take two years, and then how will our elite players be playing at that point? If they decline, we’re screwed.
foyesboys - January 16, 2012
Compare the Niners and Giants safties to ours.
Compare their d lines to ours. We aren’t close to either.
The mental toughness of those 2 teams is light years ahead of Dallas. Look at the Houston d. They are what Dallas wishes they were. If Houston had Schaub they smoke the Ravens.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
yeah without Schaub the Texans were awful
Joe Flacco sucks so bad too
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Agree with Mensa. Watched the games with my dad this weekend and all we could say was “I never see a cowboy do that” or “do we ever make that play/stand?”
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I watched the 49ers entire defense
I watched the Texans front 7 and secondary, and said to myself “I WANT THAT!”
I want those dlinemen, I want a complimentary pass rusher for Ware, and I want those play making DBs!
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
That's cool.
I agree. I have just been whining about our mental toughness a lot, is getting to where I am irritating me :)
BlueNSilverBlood - January 16, 2012
you know
I still dont think this team knows how to win, they blew leads and lost in the 4th quarter
we still havent won a big game, I am talking about beating a really good team
the 49ers game yes, I will give us that but the Redskins and Dolphins wins this year werent big time wins, not in my eyes
once we start beating the Giants and Eagles again, then start beating the Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Packers of the NFL again I will say we have won big games
but we havent
we folded far too much in big games
up 12 with 3 to go? L
playoffs on the line, win or go home? L
very frustrating
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
It's nice to see everyone is drinking the niner kool-aid...
but seriously, that team is a one-hit wonder in the making. Because they were so devoid of success, they had no star players with big contracts so they were able to go out and get the very best veteran free agents.
The San Fransisco 49ers have a total of 11 players who were the overall 11th pick in the draft or better.
Donte Whitner DB 1st / 8th pick / 2006
Justin Smith*+ DE 1st / 4th pick / 2001
Braylon Edwards WR 1st / 3rd pick / 2005
Ted Ginn Jr. WR 1st / 9th pick / 2007
Michael Crabtree WR 1st / 10th pick / 2009
Patrick Willis*+ LB 1st / 11th pick / 2007
Anthony Davis T 1st / 11th pick / 2010
Alex Smith QB 1st / 1st pick / 2005
Vernon Davis TE 1st / 6th pick / 2006
Aldon Smith DE 1st / 7th pick / 2011
Carlos Rogers* DB 1st / 9th pick / 2005
In a year they will be capped strapped with no way to pay all these top picks who beleive they contributed more than they actually did to the success of their team.
TheCowboyFan - January 16, 2012
Edwards was laready released.
Ginn and Whitner weren’ their draft picks. They got good deals with those players.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
already (edit)
football mensa - January 16, 2012
The San Fransisco 49ers have a total of 11 players who WERE THE overall 11th pick in the draft or better.
not THEIR pick.
TheCowboyFan - January 16, 2012
yup
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I watched the giants game with my friends, who are giants fans
when I got in my car to go home, I just wanted to cry man
up 12 points, 3 minutes left and we lose
then we go there and get annihilated
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Dallas' priority should be fixing both lines.
in the East you have serious pass rushers, so IMO the Oline is more important. FA G/C draft DeCastro in the first. now Arkin, Nagy, killer K, Costa man the other spot, boom Oline is very good.
rounds 2-7 need to be fixing D-line and secondary. 1De 1OLB 1-2CB and a 2S.
thatd be my draft if i was in charge. understably it all cant be fixed in 1 off season but it would deffinetely make things alot better.
yehti - January 16, 2012 via mobile
there are a few areas I want addressed
secondary, guard, center, defensive line, pass rusher
playoff teams have done very well in that area
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
That would be half the team Chia. LOL
football mensa - January 16, 2012
lol I know
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
the Giants have shown that if you dominate the lines youll win.
Dallas doesnt dominate any of the lines therefore they lose.
yehti - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Agree with this wholeheartedly.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Chia jerry's been cheap in free agency since the new stadium. He tries to sign
deals like Scandrick. Which is disheartening.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
I said the same thing and I got blasted
I have no problem with extending Scandrick, but Sensabaugh was dumb, Ratliff extension made no sense
and he has been cheap in free agency, really cheap getting JAG’s
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
If Cortland Finnegan's contract comes in at a similar price to Scandrick i'm going to punch a wall
When he eventually signs with another team.
I have no clue what Jerry was thinking with the Ratliff deal.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012 via mobile
that would bother me too
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Ratliff deal is perplexing
I said it at the time – it sure seems like Jerry paid him for past performance. As a business decision, that sucks.
foyesboys - January 16, 2012
Some things never change
Jerry is fascinated with the idea of making guys “Cowboys for life”. For whatever reason he’d rather “do good by his guys” and make guys like Ratliff a “Cowboy for life” rather than win Superbowls.
It’s very strange.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
i dont mind the Sensi extension.
they knew they had to replace 1S but to replace both would be extremely hard. with this S draft class and the few FA, they had to sign Sensi or Elam and they chose the younger of the 2. theres logic behind resigning him, right or wrong we will see
yehti - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I don't think it has as much to do with the new stadium
as much as it has to do with resigning your own guys and not betting the farm on free agents. I think the fact that they are forever smack against the sallary cap has a lot to do with not making a big splash in free agency.
Jerry would love to sign another superstar in FA he just doesn’t have the stomach or the space for it.
Jaymanburlington - January 16, 2012
Like I said Chia...about 4-5% of the fans on this blog actually get it.
The rest just have tunnel vision and don’t want to admit that Dallas has been in shambles for a long time.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
I am trying to take some solace in the fact that Stephen appears more ready to admit our deficiencies than his pops.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Ive been saying that
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
"for a long time" IDK. Parcells built up a championship-caliber team
which Wade and Jerry helped put in the ditch with subpar coaching and trading away the ‘09 draft. That’s why I like JG. He has influence on Jerry and has the philosophy of winning in the trenches and building a strong line.
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
Brand that is our only hope.
football mensa - January 16, 2012
What would be your first course of action this offseason Mensa? I generally agree with your assessments, albeit with a touch more positivity haha
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Jerry the GM drives me insane
dude I hate watching Hakeem Nicks because he could have been a Cowboy, instead we got Roy Williams
makes me sick
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Nicks reminds me so much of Dez…once Dez runs better routes and we actually throw him the ball…watch out
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I hate watching all the Giants rookie recievers.
It’s like all the secondaries in the NFL forget that he is there. Who the heck was supposed to be covering Cruz? Is the kid that spectacular, or is it that Eli has 30 minutes to throw?
GunsUp - January 16, 2012
This blows my mind too…they always seem to be WIDE open. My only conclusion is that manning has all day to throw and the defenses are playing zone coverages so the receiver finds the soft spot. It’s exceedingly frustrating.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I think they are VERY similar
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
I could see improvement from Dez
as the year wore on. Thats a good thing. I’m hoping he has the dedication to stay close to the ranch during the off season and continue to get better. You could see Tony’s trust in him starting to grow.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
they really need to start getting him the ball more
and that comes with trust
I hope Romo develops that this training camp with him
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
And they finally starting hitting him on slants/skinny posts and routes where he could catch the ball on the run. I wish we would use him on more crossing routes like SF used TO back in the day since he is so good after the catch
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I will be glad when the Cowboys stop trying to be "cute".
Like I keep telling my son about his homework. Fulfill the assignment first, then go and improve it. If you don’t finish and turn it in, you only get the zero. If you fullfill the assigment and turn it in, the least you will get is 100. If you want the extras, add them after the assigment is complete.
GunsUp - January 16, 2012
Apparently Dez was detained in Miami for a physical altercation at a night club…oh boy
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
yea, we talked a little bit about it further up in the comments
just waiting on more to come out. The sites we saw it on weren’t very reliable.
TARHEEL PAUL - January 16, 2012
I see that now…still figuring out the best way to stay on top of the conversation on my phone.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I hate the getting cute part myself
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
if you only do the bare minimum that would be a 70
you need to put in extra work if you wanna get A’s
somebodyquiet - January 16, 2012
Jake Long
The definition of an elite athlete – and truly deserving of a 1st overall pick.
A couple more years of play like he’s had and he’ll be a superstar; discussion about one of the best LTs ever will probably be not that far off.
The next gusy to have that kind of possibility are Luck, Kalil and DeCastro.
Tyrone Jenkins - January 16, 2012
I'm sure Jerry will find a way to not draft any of those mentioned.
He will trade down and pick 15 of 16 JAGs with the hope of improving special teams.
GunsUp - January 16, 2012
After all, our coach does put the JG in JAG.
BRANDtheSKY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Sometimes Garret gets his head up his arse too.
I don’t think they are 15 players away for being good enough to make the playoffs, but I do think they are 3 or 4 outstanding players away. If they pick up a good Guard/Center, a good NT that can push the middle back, and a good DE (rusher), I think the Cowboys can wait a year for that “Shut Down” corner.
Heck Caughlin said he would address his shaky secondary by not letting the Packers have time to throw, and guess what? It effing worked.
GunsUp - January 16, 2012
You don't need a good defense when the other team can't catch
Specific - January 16, 2012
Haha that's good one
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012 via mobile
this i dont believe
i thing JG has his hands full and is doing a good job thus far. im sure everyone here made a mistake or 2 when they started a new job, you got the benefit of the doubt so lets give him at least that. lets give him at least 1 more year to see how things go.
yehti - January 16, 2012 via mobile
No Pass Rush - No Pass Defense
Packers had two pro bowl caliber corners this year and no pass rush and look how their defense struggled after being a top defense the year before. Look what the Giants just accomplished with their injury riddled secondary. A monster pass rush made Rodgers look like just a guy.
If anyone thinks this defense improves without a legit pass rusher (ahem JG and JJ) you’re kidding yourself. And, if you think a rookie is going to step in at the 14th pick and push the pocket from the middle you have another disappointing season coming.
Give the QB time and he can slice up the secondary.
We need a pass rusher and interior offensive line help. Corner is secondary no pun intended.
Jaymanburlington - January 16, 2012
Let's say that DeCastro is drafted
w/ the 14th pick by Dallas. And, he turns out to be average. that is to say, his grade for his entire career on PFF is 0.0. He’s somewhere between the 32nd and 33rd best OG in the league.
He would STILL be better than any of the OGs Dallas has on the roster right now besides Holland – who is 30+ yrs old.
Now, given all the rhetoric and hype associated w/ him and how great he is supposed to be, does anyone really think Dallas can go wrong w/ him?
Tyrone Jenkins - January 16, 2012
safest pick in the draft IMO
day 1 starter.
ziggy19 - January 16, 2012
Mind if I dance with yo' date?
Lord Humungus - January 16, 2012
that's a big boy
DIRE WOLF - January 16, 2012
Animal House great movie
yehti - January 16, 2012 via mobile
btw here`s our O-line talent for next yr
let me know if I forgot someone here.
OT / G / C
Tyron Smith all indications he`ll be a LT stud.
Kyle Kosier does he have another yr in him?
Kevin Kowalski the answer at C?
Montrae Holland ufa don`t think there will be a bidding war.
Doug Free can he revert back to RT form.
David Arkin can he improve.
Phil Costa are we giving up on him too early?
Derrick Dockery ufa see Holland.
Jermey Parnell This is our swing tackle?
Bill Nagy the answer at G or C?
Daniel Loper ufa see Dockery.
Brandon Carter not sure if he is still on the club?
ziggy19 - January 16, 2012
Let's hope that Tyron Smith doesn't have a sophomore slump
and wouldn’t Free be paid a bit too much for a RT? If the Cowboys did, indeed, draft RKG, we should see Arkin, Nagy, and Costa improve but we’ll just have to see on that. Really impressed with what Holland did. Kosier is too injury prone but he calls out the adjustments, can play C, and is good at mentoring the younger players.
ScottB1985 - January 16, 2012
Parnell could play Tyron Smith in a movie
Jonathan Stern - January 16, 2012
if he cut his hair, got in shape like Tyron, and was actually good........maybe
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
Well he deserved his chance in the minors . We will all see in camp next year.
You yourself have said we ought to keep him around at least until next preseason
Jonathan Stern - January 16, 2012
see Parnell next training camp- you’ll see
Jonathan Stern - January 16, 2012
This will be Parnell's 4th year. If he doesn't hack it TC they have got to cut bait and find someone else.
Rena - January 16, 2012
OK sure. But a least the Cowboys gave him a chance.
Nate Newton hung around for years before he did anything
and Mark Tuinei couldn’t pass block anyone at the beginning. I can imagine what the posters on this board would have said about them at the time.
“He sucks”
“cut him”
“He is worthless”
Would have been like watching an episode of Spartacus.
Jonathan Stern - January 16, 2012
I am sure they would have. But I also think 4 years is a good enough to know if someone can make it or not.
Rena - January 17, 2012
Great article. Thanks OCC, for the reality check.
This in-depth analysis should sober up the “blind faith” fans who expect a deep playoff run based on a few draft picks.
To regurgitate your message, it usually takes years not months for O-linemen to hit the top of their learning curve. It makes me realize how GOOD Tyron is.
stubabe - January 16, 2012
Awesome post, OCC
It seems like there are two lessons here:
1. Be patient with DeCastro if we get him
2. Be patient if (and likely when) Tron doesn’t have an incredible monster season next year.
With that being said, I would love love love to take DeCastro in the first, especially since it seems that the early success rate for guards is much higher than tackles. Bring him in and leaves Arkin, Nagy, Lumpy, and whoever to fight for the last guard spot.
DerUbermensch - January 16, 2012
Draft Decastro at 14 no questions asked
2nd round plan A – hope that a CB like Gilmore, Minnifield, or Jenkins falls to us in the second round, then after that they need to draft the best defensive players available in the 3rd and 4th round.
2nd round plan B – Take best pass rusher available
Jerry’s Plan – Find whoever looked to be a top talent before a season ending injury and reach on them way too soon and hope they eventually can get on the field.
Roy c - January 16, 2012
My mock with G in rd 1
14 *David DeCastro OG Stanford
45 *Jonathan Massaquoi OLB Troy
82 Shaun Prater CB Iowa
115 Donnie Fletcher CB Boston College
135 comp Tramain Thomas FS Arkansas
150 Derek Wolfe DE Cincinnati
186 William Vlachos C Alabama
222 B.J. Coleman QB Chattanooga
ziggy19 - January 16, 2012
who are we getting comp picks for?
Archie Barberio - January 16, 2012
we only get comp picks for losing more free agents than we brought in
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
we should get a comp pick for Bowen, right?
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
That is what I have read.
Rena - January 16, 2012
and he got a big money deal so it should be a 4th or 5th round pick
that’s my understanding.
Blue Eyed Devil - January 16, 2012
I like if
We sign Finnegan or another CB in FA. I dont know if Prater will be able to help, atleast not right away. I will not be happy if we start next year with Jenkins and Scandrick as our 1 and 2 CB’s.
Roy c - January 16, 2012
the loss of Steven Bowen
unnofficially of course.
ziggy19 - January 16, 2012
How many times have we heard Garrett talk about the importance of interior linemen?
There will be a lot of depth there this year… whether it be guys like Kosier, Dockery or Holland… upcoming talent like Costa, Nagy, Kowalski and Arkin… or rookies like Decastro or Glenn. Lots of decisions to be made… Kosier is old and made some big mistakes, Dockery and Holland are UFA and Kowalski and Arkin didn’t get enough experience. If Costa continues to develop you still have 2 more question marks and at least one of those guys is going to have to be a veteran.
Free at RT and Tyron at LT is a great tandem though…
scraig - January 16, 2012
Anyone else notice...
Alex Mack was taken 21st in round 1….we picked 20th….but guess what we traded for….
rawrrawr - January 16, 2012
r u sure?
seems Mack was in rd 2 and Cleveland traded ahead of us to steal him, and I think we traded down in the draft. brb
ziggy19 - January 16, 2012
my mistake
it was Seattle jumping ahead of us in rd 2 for Unger that same yr and then we traded back.
ziggy19 - January 16, 2012
OG is the 1st round?
I like the idea of fixing the interior line. What I wonder is if some combination of Holland, Arkin, Costa, or Kowalski might not be the answer. I have to admit that Costa scares me purely on the basis of his inability to snap the ball when Romo is expecting it and to snap the ball to Romo instead of over his head. But could a couple of the younger guys really step up next year and improve? I kind of like the little I saw of Kowalski. Holland did an OK job. Maybe Arkin will man up.
jdg4660 - January 16, 2012
Great post OCC, tons of comments
One thing that stood out to me from the tables was the number of young lineman the 9ers have and the relatively good play they’ve got out of them (notwithstanding Davis). 3/5s of their line were drafted high-round since 2008 and with the D they have, I’m afraid we’ll be seeing a lot of SF in the playoffs. Makes you really wonder how much of it is coaching.
Silverblue - January 16, 2012
Superstar talent only comes along
every so often. Sometimes you see it in back to back years, at other times, you can go for 5-8 years w/o anyone coming along that’s special. And when I mean special, I mean multiple All-Pro, possibly one of the best to ever play the position special.
To further complicate things, there’s no way to know that someone is great until you select them, pay them money and give them a chance. Some players are more obvious than others (Peyton Manning). While some players look the part but aren’t (Ryan Leaf) and others are stumbled upon (Tom Brady).
One thing is sure – whenever you DO think you see it, you go after it. You make deals to get to it. You beg, borrow and STEAL to obtain it.
If you are so lucky to be in the position to get it, the chances are the guy will be AT LEASAT pretty decent on the low side. But look at the UPside. Think about what he might be. Imagine if you (and everyone else) is right about this guy.
And, whether he’s the next coming of Lawrence Taylor, Deion Sanders, John Elway or Barry Sanders, you get him and you BUILD YOUR TEAM around him. If it’s a left tackle, you get him and find a complementary QB and become a passing team. If he’s a middle linebacker, you complement him with a good CB, FS and DE and become a defensive jaugernaut. He is the key to your success. That is the way you build a championship franchise. That is what Dallas did w/ Aikman, Irvin and Smith – three years in a row of GREAT draft selection.
Now, Dallas has the opportunity (or so it seems) to select another young gentleman who has been compared to Larry Allen and Steve Hutchinson. He’s the Lebron James of OGs. He’s worth using a 14th overall pick for – even though it’s previously been unheard of to do so on an OG.
And we’re here debating whether or not they should? Really?
Tyrone Jenkins - January 16, 2012
There used to be a consensus in the NBA
Always draft a Center over a Guard/Forward.
I wonder how the Portland Trailblazers feel 27 years after they passed on Michael Jordan for center Sam Bowie, because conventional wisdom says always take a center over a guard.
I wonder how the Portland Trailblazers feel 4 years later after passing on stud forward, Kevin Durant, and drafting center Greg Oden instead, because conventional wisdom says you take a center over a forward.
In both instances, the pro careers of Bowie and Oden were filled with injuries, and unfilled expectations. Meanwhile we all know how Michael Jordan’s career turned out, we see how great of a player Kevin Durant is becoming, as every season he’s taking the next step in his own personal and his team’s success.
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
ummm
so he disappears in the 4th quarter?……
Sorry couldn’t resist
I am Ironman!!! - January 16, 2012
LOL
now that’s funny…
Tyrone Jenkins - January 16, 2012
can we call him the Kevin Durant of OGs instead?
Rohpuri - January 16, 2012 via mobile
would that make Tyron the Nowitzki of OT's?
I am Ironman!!! - January 17, 2012
Either the Nowitzki or Tim Duncan of OTs
Rohpuri - January 17, 2012 via mobile
as a mavericks fan
and completely and utterly baised against all things Spurs:
Nowitzki >>>> Tim Duncan
I am Ironman!!! - January 18, 2012
Hehe.
Actually WB said he was the best G to come out since the 1st Pouncey. So in the last 2-3 years. Not quite the same as a HOF’er, but still pretty good. And Pouncy was a Pro Bowler as a rookie remember.
Rena - January 17, 2012
Did you see Joe Staley on Smith's TD run?
BTW, I think you meant linemEn.
Nice work, OCC.
5Blings - January 16, 2012
That was my favorite play of the game
Rohpuri - January 17, 2012 via mobile
oops.
One.Cool.Customer - January 17, 2012
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